Blown engine, help please

[pwaterz]

I bought the truck in Washington state from a big name dealer there. Not a Ram dealer though, Kia. Currently I am in illinois and the truck is at a Ram/dodge/chrysler dealer here. No one has technically given me a run around yet. The service agent basically has given me the option to submit it as a warranty repair, but he is saying I'm running a major risk of them voiding the warranty if they send in the vehicle diagnostics. The truck only has 10 more months left on the powertrain so I'm not all that concerned about it being voided. The only concerning thing is that I think it'll be public record that it was voided. I don't really have any sense of how much that would affect the resale of the car though. Also given that the engine replacement would probably show up on the carfax, it may not matter at all.

 

[chrisbh17]

FWIW I dont take much stock in CarFax records...I know lots of people do, but when my truck was rear-ended (not my fault) and only needed body work, but the records on CarFax show "frame work"....well it makes me wonder just who inputs the CarFax data. I have a 10 page long invoice of what was fixed on my truck, and it mentioned "frame" once in the context that they actually took frame measurements to be 100% sure it wasnt bent. Somehow CarFax thinks that means "work has been done on the frame". Since I keep my vehicles forever Im not really worried about it, but it does beg the question just where CarFax gets their data from.

You dont want to void the warranty right away, since you might need it to pay for that replacement engine. Not sure what to say on that one....maybe damned if you do (let them send diags), pretty much damned if you dont.

AFAIK the dash mileage is programmable to match the PCM mileage. Which means its programmable to show ANY mileage, you could make the case that someone may have mucked with the DASH mileage and not the PCM. The dash mileage should have no bearing on the warranty.

 

[RamCares]

I'm still here. Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm really trying to figure out if the PCM being off really means it was tuned. The tech said there is no evidence of tune on it currently. It's also odd that it was only for a 2k miles. They can't prove that it was tuned in the current way it is now. The issues I'm facing is if I ask them to try and warranty it they need to rip the engine apart to figure out what caused it. If for some reason they can point a finger at a tune they will. In that case he said I would have to pay for the tear down which he was quoting like 20hr+, which seems kind of high to me. Also if they decide it was a tunes fault they'll void the warranty which I believe will become public record and hurt the resale value.

I got a quote from another shop for a rebuild for around 9-12k, but honestly thinking if I have to pay for it I would do a cummins certified rebuild. Comes with a two year warranty and I can make any dodge dealer deal with any issues that come up down the road.

Hi there @pwaterz, we are deeply sorry to hear about this situation. We certainly understand how the uncertainty of this repair is concerning. Please feel free to loop us into a private conversation with your VIN and mileage so that we may investigate this further on your behalf, thank you.

Kathryn
Ram Cares

 

[mtnrider]

First off it is Extremely rare for a cummins motor to "blow" ...transmissions are another story.

If they are not seeing evidence of tuning (they can do that by seeing the number of ECM flashes) my first thought would be the previous owner swapped the EVIC (the dash display). This is a popular mod people do on the lower trim trucks and getting the mileage to match the PCM has always been a bit of a challenge.
What trim level is the truck and what dash display do you have? The small 4" or the larger 7"?

 

[pwaterz]

It's a Laramie, so I assume it already had the big display.

 

[chrisbh17]

It's a Laramie, so I assume it already had the big display.

I would leave that determination up to the dealer its not your problem to know why the dash is not reading the same as the PCM.

I would question it, though....since they seem to be taking the angle "PCM doesnt match dash", you could ask "what if the PCM is correct and the dash isnt?". Without proof of a tune, it actually makes more sense the dash is out of sync.

 

[JRs 17 Ram]

Here is my input, Having lived in Washington for many years until recently, I know that when you buy a vehicle from any dealer you will get an odometer disclosure statement which certifies the odometer reading. If the dealer who has your truck now is saying that your odometer does not match the pcm mileage then you could have legal recourse against the selling dealer. Also as you bought it from a large dealership, even though it is not a Ram dealership, they may be willing to work with you on this issue. It sounds to me that the repair facility is trying to con you into paying for something that should be covered under warranty. Good luck!

 

[boblonben]

Yeah I feel like dealers should be required to verify odometer readings and if they re-sell a vehicle with one that is "off" its not on the customer unless they somehow disclosed it first.

All dealers are required to 'sign-off' on vehicle mileages as indicated by BOTH the speedo and PCM. In fact the speedo mileage indicator gets the number shonw fromthe PCM, it does NOY store some number in a separate code file. So not sure how you got a 2K difference???????

 

[chrisbh17]

All dealers are required to 'sign-off' on vehicle mileages as indicated by BOTH the speedo and PCM. In fact the speedo mileage indicator gets the number shonw fromthe PCM, it does NOY store some number in a separate code file. So not sure how you got a 2K difference???????

Yep....Ive never bought a used vehicle from a dealer but even the new vehicles Ive bought there is a yellow paper that we both need to sign off on, agreeing that the paper shows the current mileage as of sale time.

Essentially the dealer could be held to the fire because they agreed on the mileage but it wasnt correct....but the wrench in the works is that it wasnt a Mopar dealer that sold it, so who knows what the selling dealer would claim.

 

[pwaterz]

All dealers are required to 'sign-off' on vehicle mileages as indicated by BOTH the speedo and PCM. In fact the speedo mileage indicator gets the number shonw fromthe PCM, it does NOY store some number in a separate code file. So not sure how you got a 2K difference???????

The dealer was the one who came up with the 2k difference, I have no idea where it came from.

 

[chrisbh17]

The dealer was the one who came up with the 2k difference, I have no idea where it came from.

This seems kinda fishy, then...is the Kia dealer the one telling you your Mopar warranty would be voided?

Can you take it to a Mopar dealer for a second opinion (even if it needs to be towed there it might be worth the $$$)

 

[Wild one]

If the trucks at a Chrysler dealer ,have them run the vin number to see what all work has been done to the truck by a dealer.

 

[pwaterz]

This seems kinda fishy, then...is the Kia dealer the one telling you your Mopar warranty would be voided?

Can you take it to a Mopar dealer for a second opinion (even if it needs to be towed there it might be worth the $$$)

It's at a chrysler dealer now, they're the ones who told me the pcm and dash didn't match. The kia dealer I bought it from is 2k miles away from where I live.

 

[pwaterz]

If the trucks at a Chrysler dealer ,have them run the vin number to see what all work has been done to the truck by a dealer.

There is no work on file for the truck.

 

[Jim Bowker]

I bought the truck in Washington state from a big name dealer there. Not a Ram dealer though, Kia. Currently I am in illinois and the truck is at a Ram/dodge/chrysler dealer here. No one has technically given me a run around yet. The service agent basically has given me the option to submit it as a warranty repair, but he is saying I'm running a major risk of them voiding the warranty if they send in the vehicle diagnostics. The truck only has 10 more months left on the powertrain so I'm not all that concerned about it being voided. The only concerning thing is that I think it'll be public record that it was voided. I don't really have any sense of how much that would affect the resale of the car though. Also given that the engine replacement would probably show up on the carfax, it may not matter at all.

I don't think I ever looked up public records to see if a used vehicle already beyond its warranty period had a voided warranty during the warranty period. Either way, there was no expectation of a current warranty! The truck will probably just be sold at auction some day anyway.
If they can scare you away by talking about voided warranties and you pick up the tab, it makes their life a lot easier. To the best of your knowledge your vehicle has never had a tune. Maybe the PCM was swapped out when the truck was almost brand new. Who knows. As you are dealing with this, get everything in writing, not over the phone. I'd also recommend being nice during the interactions.

 

[chrisbh17]

Yeah the fact remains they cant prove it was tuned (they admitted that IIRC?) and even if they could they still need to prove it caused the issue.

 

[FlaglerMegacab4x4]

Here is my 2 cents. As a CTD owner I think it’s difficult for them to physically prove an engine has been tuned from internals. They’ll gather evidence of the failure but they’ll need the computer to tell them what caused it I.e. over boosted, fuel pressures too high, contaminated fuel etc. Additionally most tuners leave a digital footprint in the computer showing them it’s been tuned, there are some tuners that don’t. However if they dig through the ecm and look at previous data logs they’ll see if the engine has been operated out of factory spec such as changed fuel parameters, increased boost pressures or drive pressures that sort of thing would indicate that something has modified the factory base file and they can prove its been tuned. Now all of this honestly means about nothing to you assuming you didn’t tune it and didn’t know it was tuned. Dealerships I believe nationwide are required by law to have a seller and a buyer sign a form stating that emissions equipment wasn’t tampered with and the vehicle wasnt modified from stock. You should have a form like this in your paperwork from purchase. I would find it make a copy for the servicing dealer and have them do their tear down and then should any issues arise take it up with the selling dealer. I referenced emissions equipment, that should all be intact and operational if not then the truck was for sure tuned.


Edit: How does the PCM and the odometer not match? I believe mileage is displayed from what the PCM has recorded which is why you can replace your cluster and still have accurate information.

 

[grumpyb]

performance plus machine in new mexico has reman for about 4200 , bought one about a 1.5 years ago and melted a piston with only 3300 miles on it ( make sure you're injectors don't come from china , its hard to tell sometimes ) , they now fixing the motor and only charging for the parts and not the labor , great people to deal with , sell about 3 motors a week so they know what they are doing, they also build race engines , if you can find someone to do the swap at a decent price that is they way I would go.

 

[DaveSharp]

I'm still here. Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm really trying to figure out if the PCM being off really means it was tuned. The tech said there is no evidence of tune on it currently. It's also odd that it was only for a 2k miles. They can't prove that it was tuned in the current way it is now. The issues I'm facing is if I ask them to try and warranty it they need to rip the engine apart to figure out what caused it. If for some reason they can point a finger at a tune they will. In that case he said I would have to pay for the tear down which he was quoting like 20hr+, which seems kind of high to me. Also if they decide it was a tunes fault they'll void the warranty which I believe will become public record and hurt the resale value.

I got a quote from another shop for a rebuild for around 9-12k, but honestly thinking if I have to pay for it I would do a cummins certified rebuild. Comes with a two year warranty and I can make any dodge dealer deal with any issues that come up down the road.

Considering the ridiculous costs involved here I'd get a lawyer. They can't deny you warranty on a suspicion and sound like they are trying to get out of repairing an engine that is still under factory warranty. It doesn't matter how much they are "cracking down" on diesels if you didn't do anything wrong. If they cannot prove you voided the warranty then they have honour the warranty. Find someone to argue your case if you cannot. Don't let them screw you out of your warranty that you PAID FOR in the purchase price of the vehicle.

 

[pwaterz]

Considering the ridiculous costs involved here I'd get a lawyer. They can't deny you warranty on a suspicion and sound like they are trying to get out of repairing an engine that is still under factory warranty. It doesn't matter how much they are "cracking down" on diesels if you didn't do anything wrong. If they cannot prove you voided the warranty then they have honour the warranty. Find someone to argue your case if you cannot. Don't let them screw you out of your warranty that you PAID FOR in the purchase price of the vehicle.

Absolutely correct.