Cummins 6.7 vs hemi 6.4 (with a twist)

[smiley]

We had a shortage on LP over here so that jumped way up in price. Probably would make it much more to operate. I always liked that idea though.


$miley

 

[DrTron]

Well, over here more than half of the gas price is taxes. And since LPG is considered a "clean" fuel, it's taxed a lot lower thus making it much cheaper. Of course, you have to pay for an injection unit, extra tank etc. and get the papers straight, so it usually only pays off if you either drive a lot or drive a car which uses quite a lot of fuel. My Ram falls into the latter category ;-)

 

[hounddog]

Get the gasser. Sure it'll never have the 'badass' factor that a Cummins does, but you get over that pretty quickly. I like that I don't have any DEF, or other **** to contend with. My emissions systems are nice n refined, since they've been around for what 40 years now?

If you're not towing, I'd avoid the Cummins.

I do not agree. Not entirely, anyway.

I am on my second Cummins that is used 80% or higher as a daily driver and I have had no issues (of course my '14 is only a week old LOL)

As long as his drive is on more or less flat ground he can expect to see an average of 18+mpg in the new Cummins as that is what I am seeing with about 1,200 miles already on the truck.

The only issue is this (as I have already found myself disappointed): The DEF issue. You can expect about a 2-3% DEF usage to fuel. Meaning, the tank of DEF will last "about" 5,000 miles. More or less.

If that is not acceptable, then go with the gasser as they end up being roughly equal with the large edge going to the diesel.

The last thing is that the Cummins will break in just fine if you are not towing/payload driving. It will just take 45-55k instead of 30-35k miles.

 

[parkersdad]

I sold my 5.7 and bought the 6.7 Cummins. Get what you want to start with and be done. My 2013 Cummins has almost 2000 miles and has only towed once for 150 miles. I have yet to have any problems.

 

[Sud]

I got out of a diesel truck ('04 Chevy 2500HD 6.6 duramax) to get in this new 6.4 Hemi, because it was wearing me out in maintenance/repair costs. Yes it got better mileage (~18-19 mpg). and yes it had the power. and yes it was fun to drive - when it wasn't broke down.

The CTD is a good engine. Necessary, if you tow on a weekly or maybe even monthly basis. otherwise, it's just not needed. That said - if you just want it for the "cool" factor, and/or have the extra ~$7k-8k (or want to finance that much more money) that it takes right off the bat to get in one, by all means, you won't be disspointed. It's a good, fun truck/engine combo to drive. (I test drove 2-3 different ones before buying this 6.4 truck) But don't make the mistake of thinking the 6.4 won't tow or haul what you need. ;-)

Fuel mileage is something to consider. But after doing the math myself, at current fuel prices (local to me), it would take nearly 200,000 miles of driving the 6.4 gas before I would burn up that ~$7k difference that it takes to get in the 6.7 CTD.
(^ Based on 12 mpg for the 6.4 Hemi @ 3.3x fuel prices, vs. 17 mpg in the 6.7 CTD @ 4.1x fuel prices *empty mpg, not loaded/towing)

and THEN you have to figure in the DEF fluid. When i did the math, it was approximately 2.7x/gal at the pump, or approximately $6.00/gal if you buy it at a store (Autozone, etc.)
It's only an 8 gallon tank if i remember correctly, and as mentioned already will last approximately 5,000 miles. It is an added expense... @ the tune of $2.7 * 7gal = $19; OR $6 * 7gal = $42. That's not going to break the bank for ANYone that can afford the CTD in the first place.

The biggest concerns i see for the OP - little/no towing, and short trips. Based on those 2 simple facts, it seems to scream "GAS ENGINE" to me. my 2 cents...

 

[katokahn99]

Light, slow, short driving screams "clogged DPF" to me. Go with the Bad A$$ Hemi...you won't regret the choice.
I absolutely love my CTD, but if I was in your situation, I would go with the gasser for sure; I would pick a PW!

 

[parkersdad]

I drive 6 miles to work and 6 miles home and have yet to have problems. Everyone talks about the $8000 upfront. That figure is blown out of per portion in my opinion. When you go to sell the 6.4 hemi-you will get $8000 less then I will get for my Cummins Turbo diesel. I am not saying that the 6.4 is a bad engine I am just saying think about the entire process. I was in your shoes and bought a gas motor. I was not happy with the production I got for towing a 10,000 pound trailer. I also look to gas mileage and figured it would take me 222,000 miles to recoup it. That being said when I go to sell my truck it is going to be worth 8 to 10,000 more than my gas truck would be at the same time. Therefore you recoup that cost on the backend. Just something to think about

 

[Sud]

If you're not out the $8k to start with, you're not losing out on the $8k when you go to resell the truck. ;-) So that's not much of a valid argument.

You are still spending/financing $8k extra right off the bat. IF you NEED the diesel engine, or don't have a problem producing the coin, then it's a moot point. Spend the $8k. Just saying, you're not necessarily creating money down the road. You MIGHT get you're full $8k back.

I won't argue the fact that diesels hold their value well. Truth is, we won't truly know just how much value is lost by either model (CTD/6.4 HEMI) until ~10 years down the road.

 

[Sud]

I drive 6 miles to work and 6 miles home and have yet to have problems.

Talking about your 2013 truck in your avatar/description area (to the left)?

I hope you never do - but, the problems associated with short driving with a diesel like yours (newer with all today's emission equipment) wouldn't show their ugly face for several years. I'd make it a point to take it out and stretch that truck's legs a few times a month... "blow it out" so to speak.

 

[parkersdad]

I do every weekend. I Either tow my camper or get on the interstate for 20 or 30 miles to go somewhere. I pick up my little girl every afternoon and get on interstate for about 6 miles.

 

[Badunit]

If you're not out the $8k to start with, you're not losing out on the $8k when you go to resell the truck. ;-) So that's not much of a valid argument.

The argument is that most people when calculating the break-even point don't consider resale value of the truck. With resale value included in the calculation, the break even point is much earlier.

The diesel may cost more up front but it is most likely the least expensive option for most people in a net present value calculation. But there are downsides to diesels that are not cost related. They do not warm up on short trips, which is not pleasant in the winter for those who mostly do short trips. The throttle response on the newer diesels is poor compared to gassers. All gas stations sell gas, not all sell diesel. They are noisier. They now require DEF fluid which is one more thing to worry with and one more system that will need service. Not all dealership shops seem savvy about repairing the diesels.

I have been considering a 2014 and am on the fence between the 6.4L Hemi and the Cummins.

 

[parkersdad]

Here is the simple math I am talking about. If I pay $58,000 new for my diesel and you pay 50,000 for your gas truck I finance $8000 more than you. If we both go to sell them in five years and I get 28,000 for my truck and you get 20,000 for your truck I never gained or lost anything. So the diesel option of $8000 never comes into play. When I was looking at trucks the used gas vehicles were significantly less then the diesel trucks.

 

[NewBlackDak]

Here is the simple math I am talking about. If I pay $58,000 new for my diesel and you pay 50,000 for your gas truck I finance $8000 more than you. If we both go to sell them in five years and I get 28,000 for my truck and you get 20,000 for your truck I never gained or lost anything. So the diesel option of $8000 never comes into play. When I was looking at trucks the used gas vehicles were significantly less then the diesel trucks.

It DOES come into play if you had to finance an extra $8000, unless you manage a 0% financing deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[parkersdad]

Ok you win congrats. I will take diesel any day

 

[Sud]

It DOES come into play if you had to finance an extra $8000, unless you manage a 0% financing deal.

Exactly. Not saying it's a bad choice. Just pointing out, financing an extra $8k may not be necessary if you don't need the diesel (or if you don't want a significantly higher monthly payment.)

The OP obviously doesn't need the diesel option. Just helping point out the benefits/disadvantages between the two. Simply saying resale value is higher isn't exactly what you need to consider when deciding between the two.

As it breaks down:

My truck's sticker price ~$42,000
Same truck, with 6.7 CTD ~$50,000

Monthly Payment, Financing for 60 months @ 2.5% interest:
6.4 Hemi = $745.39
6.7 CTD = $887.37

Extra $142 a month... that's some dough. or a couple tanks of unleaded.

 

[katokahn99]

<snip> or a couple tanks of unleaded.

Which he'll end up having to use (as opposed to a single tank of diesel, not exactly but this is just for illustration) if he decides to pull heavy with a gasser.

BUT, based on the OP's original description of his situation, he will not be making long, heavy hauls...so it's kinda moot, I guess. Like I said before, he should opt for the Power Wagon.

 

[parkersdad]

That is fine but if you're patient you can get a diesel for the same price as gas. My 2013 was priced at 48,500. I bought it for 37,000. Mine is a 13 that was left on the lot and they were getting the 15's.They are willing to move then. You may not get exactly everything you want in it but you will have the good diesel motor. As far as financing the $8000 you are correct but keep in mind you do save a little bit of money each time you go to the pump. I go 500 miles on a tank of diesel where with my gas motor at 320 I better be finding station. It may only be $10-$12 per tank but after a while it will add up and be about the same as financing the $8000 in my opinion.

 

[Sud]

No doubt, there are deals to be had.

and again, not arguing. just showing some numbers to be considered...

Estimated fuel costs:
Assuming prices are : Diesel @ 4.1/gallon ; Gas @ 3.4/gallon (current prices local to me)

1000 miles / 17 mpg (diesel mileage?) = 58.8 gallons of diesel
58.8 * 4.1 = $241.08 over 1000 miles

1000 miles / 12 mpg (6.4 Hemi mileage?) = 83.3 gallons of gas
83.3 * 3.4 = $283.22 over 1000 miles

283.22 - 241.08 = $42.14 more spent on GAS over 1000 miles.

Continue down the road :
10,000 miles = $421.40 more spent on GAS than diesel
50,000 miles = $2,107.00
100,000 miles = $4,214.00
150,000 miles = $6,321.00
200,000 miles = $8,428.00

Diesel's undoubtably are also more costly to maintain, and that doesn't figure in to any of these numbers shown above. DEF is so cheap right now that it's hardly worth mentioning. but... while i'm at it.

At the pump i hear DEF is around $2.70? let's just say $3.00. and if i remember right, it's an 8 gallon tank?

8 * 3 = $24.
5000 / 8 = 625 miles per gallon of DEF.

$20-$24 every ~5000 miles isn't hardly gonna break anyone that could afford the CTD in the first place. I figure after 100,000 miles, (assuming it stays at/around $3/gal), it will only cost you $480. like I said, not hardly even worth figuring in to the equation.

Bottom Line - I myself wanted the diesel. was dead set on buying a diesel. then saw the 6.4, and the price difference, and got real with myself. I don't need the diesel. That's what it came down to for me.

I digress.

 

[parkersdad]

I did about the same. I went to the dealer to buy a diesel but they were too expensive. I bought the Hemi 5.7 because it was cheaper. Six months later they put the diesel I test drove $12,000 off sticker. I went back and lost my butt but got the truck I wanted. I now have a new camper to match it. Life is good. You have to pay to play

 

[Bigdaddy]

Yeah, and that''s just it if you want it get what you want, you only live once in life but for my the Hemi 2500 worked for me.