Did Redline Oil work against your Hemi Tick?

[Wild one]

Hi there the truck only has 133,000 on it, my problem with spending the money on the fix is there’s no guarantees it will last and it could just be a patch job. All rust is an issue. I fixed it in the summer but may need to be done again. Gonna keep driving it awhile until I figure out what to do. This place is a smaller shop and cheaper than most shops. I am still going to phone around.

These guys in Edmonton carry Lube Guard if you can't find it in Calgary.You have to phone them,and they usually give you a break on the price if you buy a case of it.If you phone them in the morning,you'll usually have it the next day,or Monday if you phone them early today.

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[mradDiction]

So I’m making the decision just to bite the bullett and fix it buying a new car isn’t viable at this point and because the tick isn’t at the severe stage talking to the shop the engine should be good for another 160K or so as long as there isn’t massive filings in the oil. Once they drain if they find a lot of filings in the oil the stop the job and let you know the motor is too far gone to fix. I found another shop that will do one side of the lifters etc only what’s needed but it felt half assed and still costly. I appreciate everyone’s efforts to help me save the money but I don’t see any other way at this point. Thanks again

 

[JHoward]

Well, I started up the HEMI today and it had the tickety tocky for a few seconds ... I've just recently moved to Red Line 5w30 about a month now at 39,000 miles and it is still short of 40,000 miles ... I reside in the deep South where the temps are not severe ... it's just November and still way above freezing ... I'm still short of at least a thousand miles on this oci ... we'll see.

 

[JHoward]

I'm believing all is still good and that more miles need to be accumulated ...

 

[HEMIMANN]

Every hemi since 2009 has a probability of lifter/cam failure which is noticably higher than industry average, that is the weakness of the hemi apparently. What's less certain is the "why", whether they are just more susceptible to dirty oil problems or whether the lifter/cam vendors have quality control issues, lots of theories out there.

Unfortunately, you have one of the "problem years" where it was even worse, somewhere around 2016(?) FCA redesigned the lifter and as far as I know that has mitigated the problem somewhat.

Have you done any used oil analysis reports? I'm curious what a report from Blackstone might say.

I'm not sure I'd recommend 0w-30, I've just tried that in my engine and for the past few weeks I've had a pretty significant increase in cold engine start noise over the 5w-30 that I was running before that, especially below freezing which is odd as I expected the opposite to happen given the oil weights.

As for trading it off; will you lose more than the 5400 in a trade? Probably, and then you don't know what kind of problems you're getting there either. If you like the truck and it has been good to you otherwise and you have low-ish mileage, I personally would fix it. Maybe @Wild one knows a cheaper/better shop as he lives in your area.

It was beginning with Model Year 2017. Mine was built Jan. 2017 *nervous twitching*

 

[HEMIMANN]

Well, I started up the HEMI today and it had the tickety tocky for a few seconds ... I've just recently moved to Red Line 5w30 about a month now at 39,000 miles and it is still short of 40,000 miles ... I reside in the deep South where the temps are not severe ... it's just November and still way above freezing ... I'm still short of at least a thousand miles on this oci ... we'll see.

Check, or have the shop check, the VVT actuating valve. There's a TSB stating if there are metal filings in the valve, the engine is junk. If not, that you can proceed with existing valve train + supplemental lubricants.

 

[JHoward]

It was beginning with Model Year 2017. Mine was built Jan. 2017 *nervous twitc

Check, or have the shop check, the VVT actuating valve. There's a TSB stating if there are metal filings in the valve, the engine is junk. If not, that you can proceed with existing valve train + supplemental lubricants.

Thank you, sir. I'm grateful for your reply. After going back and reveiwing alot of threads, I'm leaning on the possibility of witnessing for the first time the cold piston slap. My HEMI is low on miles and I need to just sit back, relax and accumulate some miles on this 5w/30 Red Line oil ... It's only been a couple of months since the oci ... my HEMI sounds so much better on Red Line. If I hear the cold piston slap again, I'll change my oil strategy for the remainder of the cooler months and use Red Line 0w/30 .

 

[Hemi395]

Thank you, sir. I'm grateful for your reply. After going back and reveiwing alot of threads, I'm leaning on the possibility of witnessing for the first time the cold piston slap. My HEMI is low on miles and I need to just sit back, relax and accumulate some miles on this 5w/30 Red Line oil ... It's only been a couple of months since the oci ... my HEMI sounds so much better on Red Line. If I hear the cold piston slap again, I'll change my oil strategy for the remainder of the cooler months and use Red Line 0w/30 .

Don't get too concerned about piston slap, a lot of Hemis do it. It sounds awful, but it's relatively benign. Mines been slapping on cold starts for at least 70k now and all my UOAs have been fine. Aluminum is low as well as iron

 

[ramffml]

Thank you, sir. I'm grateful for your reply. After going back and reveiwing alot of threads, I'm leaning on the possibility of witnessing for the first time the cold piston slap. My HEMI is low on miles and I need to just sit back, relax and accumulate some miles on this 5w/30 Red Line oil ... It's only been a couple of months since the oci ... my HEMI sounds so much better on Red Line. If I hear the cold piston slap again, I'll change my oil strategy for the remainder of the cooler months and use Red Line 0w/30 .

Appears you and I are chasing the same problem and trying the exact same oils. Just throwing it out there that my truck sounded better on a cold start with RL 5w-30 than it does with RL 0W-30, and did not fix my "cold slap" noise either. If you try the 0w please post your results, I'm very curious.

 

[mradDiction]

So I got my truck back, new lifters, cam, new water pump, gaskets, cleaned heads all that jazz. Seems quieter but not completely gone, there is a note on the bill that injector tick can be heard at idle, no faults just a noise. Ride is silky smooth and good power it feels brand new. Inside the cab you hear nothing, it’s when you get out that you hear it. Here’s before and after videos. Also I got pictures of the old cam and I got them to give me the old lifters but all of the rollers seem in tact to me? Did I get hosed into this $6500 job? I’m not sure honestly. Does the new cam and lifters need time to break in maybe? Should they have replaced the injectors at the same time?

Post Hemi Tick repair 1

youtube.com

Post Hemi tick 2

youtu.be

Here is the before video with the tick:

1st run with redline 5w30

youtu.be

 

[ramffml]

I hear two main sounds in that video: a high pitched sqealing type of tick, and low down knocking. The knock sounds exactly like what I've been trying to get rid of in my truck, and it only appears on a cold start. When truck is hot I don't hear the low pitched knocking.

That high pitched squealing I hear in literally every hemi video out there, I think that's "normal"? Is that injector tick?

 

[Burla]

So I got my truck back, new lifters, cam, new water pump, gaskets, cleaned heads all that jazz. Seems quieter but not completely gone, there is a note on the bill that injector tick can be heard at idle, no faults just a noise. Ride is silky smooth and good power it feels brand new. Inside the cab you hear nothing, it’s when you get out that you hear it. Here’s before and after videos. Also I got pictures of the old cam and I got them to give me the old lifters but all of the rollers seem in tact to me? Did I get hosed into this $6500 job? I’m not sure honestly. Does the new cam and lifters need time to break in maybe? Should they have replaced the injectors at the same time?

Post Hemi Tick repair 1

youtube.com

Post Hemi tick 2

youtu.be

Here is the before video with the tick:

1st run with redline 5w30

youtu.be

I wish you would have trusted me, I've seen this on the board too many times, and that cam has a little grove starting but that thing could have lasted a lot longer. IMO it's your job now to start a thread and let people know, just because you have hemi tick getting new lifters before a mis fire code may not be the answer. I would not say you got hosed, they performed the job you asked them to, and of course they have a solid position and concern with evidence. Help the next guy man.

So now we should start a new lubrication strategy yes? Your tick is not terribly bad, not the cam eating ticks we sometimes here, but not injector tick either. Moving forward, I would want ep additives protecting the new parts, base oils as well.

 

[mradDiction]

I wish you would have trusted me, I've seen this on the board too many times, and that cam has a little grove starting but that thing could have lasted a lot longer. IMO it's your job now to start a thread and let people know, just because you have hemi tick getting new lifters before a mis fire code may not be the answer. I would not say you got hosed, they performed the job you asked them to, and of course they have a solid position and concern with evidence. Help the next guy man.

So now we should start a new lubrication strategy yes? Your tick is not terribly bad, not the cam eating ticks we sometimes here, but not injector tick either. Moving forward, I would want ep additives protecting the new parts, base oils as well.

Hi Burla,

If you look at the picture of the bill I posted with the comments, the diagnosed the remaining tick as Injector noise that is not generating any code thus they are saying no cause for concern. My issue now is nobody gave it a mention that my ticking could have been injector tick and not this cam and lifter tick issue. I'm frankly a touch ****** as I initially took it to get diagnosed first before doing the job. The shop didn't mention Injector tick they said diagnosing went straight to the cam and lifters. I asked numerous times if that was the only solution to the problem. The lifter rubbing on the cam shaft was definately a problem but yes it was not severe yet. My next issue now is when are the injectors going to die if at all, reading around it sounds like a normal function of the MDS system. But if I'm looking at a huge injector job in the future I think it's time to move away from the truck. The shop gave me all of the old lifters so I'm going to lay them out and take pictures for you guys to have a look at.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I can't hear well anymore so I won't comment on the audio.

But I can still see well, and it looks to me like the old cam definitely had a smear pattern going. That indicates sliding wear, not rolling wear. Rolling wear is fatigue pitting. Siding wear means the lifter roller is seizing up. So yes, you had the Hemi tick.

 

[Burla]

Hi Burla,

If you look at the picture of the bill I posted with the comments, the diagnosed the remaining tick as Injector noise that is not generating any code thus they are saying no cause for concern. My issue now is nobody gave it a mention that my ticking could have been injector tick and not this cam and lifter tick issue. I'm frankly a touch ****** as I initially took it to get diagnosed first before doing the job. The shop didn't mention Injector tick they said diagnosing went straight to the cam and lifters. I asked numerous times if that was the only solution to the problem. The lifter rubbing on the cam shaft was definately a problem but yes it was not severe yet. My next issue now is when are the injectors going to die if at all, reading around it sounds like a normal function of the MDS system. But if I'm looking at a huge injector job in the future I think it's time to move away from the truck. The shop gave me all of the old lifters so I'm going to lay them out and take pictures for you guys to have a look at.

Yes, I see what they said as far as injector tick, I just disagree. They are minimizing and deflecting, which we see all the time. Hemimann is correct, the damage is in line with hemi lifter tick, and you still have hemi lifter tick, I tried to prepare you for that, and I am sorry it happened, but it is what it is. The injectors has nothing to do with this and I might suspect there is nothing wrong with them, and mds has nothing to do with this either. You had hemi lifter tick, it was causing slow damage to the cam and you tried to fix it, and you still have hemi lifter tick. I lost count on how many times this has happened here. How to move forward, protect the cam best you can with lubrication strategy, you do have new parts let's protect them, don't worry or think about injectors unless you get a code. If you took this to a different shop and they had zero info on what you did, they would NOT say oh yeah that is injector tick. it is a nothing burger, shops deflect info when stuff doesnt work out, sadly it seams like this is human nature.

 

[Burla]

@mradDiction I forget, can you recount if you tried redline lubrication strategy with what filter and the result and miles on the strategy?

 

[Burla]

Bottom line, hemi tick does not come from bad cam/lifters, most of the time it comes from a condition other then that. The exception is when you see pitting in the cam from bad rollers, but that is a rarer event then this cam lob smoothing we often see here. So if hemi tick doesnt come from bad cam/lifters, why do we think replacing cam/lifters would stop the tick? The damage to the cam/lifters come from hemi tick condition, but do not cause it. Time and time again, we see this.

 

[mradDiction]

@mradDiction I forget, can you recount if you tried redline lubrication strategy with what filter and the result and miles on the strategy?

Hi Burla yes I followed your strategy from the first point(all the posts are in this thread) I was running redline 5w30 and the Royal purple oil filter. As per my previous messages in here I followed the strategy for 3 months and just shy of 5,000 kms with no change and I would argue it was getting louder. Honestly the lubrication strategy was very expensive the redline oil alone was 140 up here add another 17 dollars for the filter that’s 160 per change. I trust the shop, the parts pricing and labor honesty didn’t look that unreasonable. They said it was early stages when I took it to them, I will have to call them about the note saying it’s injector tick and you mention that it’s not injector tick. What evidence do I have here that they actually didn’t fix the problem here? The truck does run better after the change but that was an expensive job to fix nothing. How is an average Joe supposed to know that? I won't be continuing with redline but I will try to change the oil more frequently, I'm not sure what I will do with the truck but 6500 is cheaper than a new vehicle and this thing has everything I need in it. Thanks for your input it’s hard to know who or what to believe when you only have basic mechanical knowledge. I did ask for help here and I appreciate the comments but I made the decision to try repair it rather than to take a chance that this thing would fall apart on me with my daughter in the vehicle. Sometimes parents make decisions on what "could" happen rather than what may never happen even if annoying.

 

[Burla]

I understand your frustration and we developed a strategy just for the nuckers who I'd say rick aka wildone is in officially in charge of because redline is hard to get up there.

That is the lubegard strategy, and in this case I might be convinced to consider mos2 as part of the strategy as well. The difference is mos2 is moly in suspension and gels in sump, which is doubly bad for cold places, so I'm not sure. Find a good pao 0w40 oil and drop some lubegard biotech. Or stay with redline 5w30 and RP filter but run it as long as you can, this is where uoa's come in handy, get the most out of it, plus we can bring in moa as tbn booster and insurance if you chose to stay with redline.

You didn't fix nothing, you fixed a damaged cam from hemi tick, it just wasnt fatal yet. I don't know why this shop has so much credibility with you, clearly you had no engine mis fire code and yet they spent a lot of money. I don't blame them, any shop would do the same thing, perhaps they should have warned you like I did, that is what a credible shop would have done. This is not the first case of this and wont be the last. Normally I suggest litigation, but in this case I'm not sure what they did wrong other then not tell you hemi tick can still be there after a cam swap. You not only tried to fix your lifters/cam, but you were successful in doing so. Now, it seams to me all you can do is despite having tick, put as much protection down on that cam as you can. I think redline 5w30 and rp is the way to go, extend the interval out well past 10k miles and 3/4 through the interval drop in bgmoa for tbn insurance. So the 140 is more like split in half because you safely increased the life of the oil. up to you brother, I have just have whatever info you want, if you want cheaper we can do that as well. take some time, lick your wounds, and move forward.

 

[Burla]

Plus, we don't know how many times this shop has dealt with this in their defense, whereas we hear about this everyday here. Something else to consider. They were trying to help, I get that. Even us and a decade later cannot tell you the root cause of your tick based on the damage you showed us, so how could a shop expect to cure the tick w/o even knowing the root cause? You would have to fix the root cause to fix tick, what we offer is fixing best we can the surface of the tick with the proper additives to minimize damage. There are no good answers here, just working with what we can.