Dishonesty of the Dealer or Ram HDQ, Ticked off in PA

[Gunny7156]

I have a 2023 Ram 2500 Rebel that I ordered from a dealer in August 2022. Due to the Covid era backlog, was advised build to delivery was approx. 16-20 weeks. Knew and understood that and proceeded with the build. January 2023 comes around and no word from dealer so I contacted them and was advised build should begin early February. Ok, no big deal. Just little over 3 weeks later, truck is completed and built. Mid to later March 2023, I get some disturbing news that my truck may have been affected by a large hail storm in Mexico but the dealership nor Ram could determine for sure if my truck was affected. Finally, after some heated calls to the dealer, truck arrives at dealership August 2023, 1 year after ordering. Arrived at the dealer and I looked over the entire truck with a fine tooth comb prior to accepting delivery. No damage or issues observed, no even a small crack or scratch. Been an excellent truck both mechanically and visually other than a small leak in the clearance light that the dealer repaired. Fast forward to recent day. Truck has had a vibration sound in the drivers door so I had a buddy at an auto body shop help me out vs traveling also 2 hours 1 way back to dealer I purchased. Buddy takes entire door panel of and low and behold, the entire paint on the door is red. My truck, since new and ordered is all black. I then proceed to tell my buddy of the hail damage of the trucks from Mexico during that time frame and he proceeds to grab his special light. BINGO 8-10 repaired hail damaged dents in the hood, numerous repaired dents on the roof, hail damaged dents to the rear drivers door, so on and so on. Then my buddy proceed to tell me that the driver side door with the red paint on the inside is used but an OEM door, Ram or dealers can print the Mylar VIN door tags to make it look like nothing happened. So my question is this, am I the fool for accepting this truck at the time of delivery? Was the dealer and /or Ram dishonest by not revealing there was damage prior to delivery? If I would have known and was divulged it was damaged, I would not have accepted delivery. $79,000 truck that is crap for value now, in my mind. Can't trade it in and start new from the same dealer is they now know of my displeasure with this discovery. Yes, I called them today. Kbb trade value from very good (which my truck definitely falls under in my mind) to good (repairable cosmetic issues) is a difference of $5000.00+. My understanding, this "damage" does not show up on a carfax? Is that correct? Secondly, if I were to offload this truck (trade) to different dealer and work out a new deal for new truck with them, does this damage or issues show up in their internal system of having hail damage?

 

[Gunny7156]

Interior of drivers side door

 

[Grams]

Lawyer-up. You’ll have fun with this.

 

[mikeru]

I have a 2023 Ram 2500 Rebel that I ordered from a dealer in August 2022. Due to the Covid era backlog, was advised build to delivery was approx. 16-20 weeks. Knew and understood that and proceeded with the build. January 2023 comes around and no word from dealer so I contacted them and was advised build should begin early February. Ok, no big deal. Just little over 3 weeks later, truck is completed and built. Mid to later March 2023, I get some disturbing news that my truck may have been affected by a large hail storm in Mexico but the dealership nor Ram could determine for sure if my truck was affected. Finally, after some heated calls to the dealer, truck arrives at dealership August 2023, 1 year after ordering. Arrived at the dealer and I looked over the entire truck with a fine tooth comb prior to accepting delivery. No damage or issues observed, no even a small crack or scratch. Been an excellent truck both mechanically and visually other than a small leak in the clearance light that the dealer repaired. Fast forward to recent day. Truck has had a vibration sound in the drivers door so I had a buddy at an auto body shop help me out vs traveling also 2 hours 1 way back to dealer I purchased. Buddy takes entire door panel of and low and behold, the entire paint on the door is red. My truck, since new and ordered is all black. I then proceed to tell my buddy of the hail damage of the trucks from Mexico during that time frame and he proceeds to grab his special light. BINGO 8-10 repaired hail damaged dents in the hood, numerous repaired dents on the roof, hail damaged dents to the rear drivers door, so on and so on. Then my buddy proceed to tell me that the driver side door with the red paint on the inside is used but an OEM door, Ram or dealers can print the Mylar VIN door tags to make it look like nothing happened. So my question is this, am I the fool for accepting this truck at the time of delivery? Was the dealer and /or Ram dishonest by not revealing there was damage prior to delivery? If I would have known and was divulged it was damaged, I would not have accepted delivery. $79,000 truck that is crap for value now, in my mind. Can't trade it in and start new from the same dealer is they now know of my displeasure with this discovery. Yes, I called them today. Kbb trade value from very good (which my truck definitely falls under in my mind) to good (repairable cosmetic issues) is a difference of $5000.00+. My understanding, this "damage" does not show up on a carfax? Is that correct? Secondly, if I were to offload this truck (trade) to different dealer and work out a new deal for new truck with them, does this damage or issues show up in their internal system of having hail damage?

You have my sympathies with this. It's unfortunate but that's how it happens sometimes. Damage can and does occur at any point from when a vehicle is built until someone takes delivery of it. Unfortunately for the buyer, that damage is usually repaired and then withheld from the buyer. This type of damage is not reported to Carfax. I have no way of knowing whether the vehicle would be flagged for this or if there are records kept within the dealership network. The way I see it you have two choices. Keep the truck that you have so far been happy with, knowing about the hidden damage. Or get rid of the truck and buy something else.

You are under no obligation to stick with the dealership that sold you the truck. You can deal with any CDJR dealership in the nation. I wouldn't blame you if you decide to get rid of this truck. But consider the fact that you weren't even able to tell that any hail damage had happened. So whoever did the repairs must have done a good job on that. If you're not able to overlook that, take it to a different dealership and see what they're willing to offer you for your truck. It should be obvious if it has been flagged within the system based on their offer. Also remember that you are under no obligation to disclose these repairs to a dealership, given the fact that it happened before you took possession.

 

[Wild one]

I remember reading somewhere that a new vehicle can sustain up to about $5,000 in repairable damage,before the manufacture has to reveal / report it to a customer or carfax.
If you like the truck and it's treated you good,why worry about it,it's a truck just drive it.
If you decide to trade it off and nothing shows on the carfax ,just play dumb,you know nothing about the hail damage as it was never revealed to you
Good chance the dealer was also never informed about the hail damage,if it ocurred at the Mexico plant,and was repaired there

 

[BenWade]

I understand your frustration. I would be livid but I highly doubt the dealer had any knowledge of the damage. What was their response when you told them?? It sounds a lot like a deceptive trade practice by Ram. I would contact Ram, get a response, then make a phone call to a lawyer.

 

[Gunny7156]

I understand your frustration. I would be livid but I highly doubt the dealer had any knowledge of the damage. What was their response when you told them?? It sounds a lot like a deceptive trade practice by Ram. I would contact Ram, get a response, then make a phone call to a lawyer.

I contacted the dealership today when I found out and am supposed to speak with the general manager tomorrow but my exact thoughts to let the attorneys handle this.

 

[BenWade]

I contacted the dealership today when I found out and am supposed to speak with the general manager tomorrow but my exact thoughts to let the attorneys handle this.

The bigger issue here is for Ram. How many other "repaired" vehicles did they sell?

I personally would want the cash equivalent to the devaluation of the vehicle.

Keep us updated and good luck!

 

[mikeru]

I contacted the dealership today when I found out and am supposed to speak with the general manager tomorrow but my exact thoughts to let the attorneys handle this.

You may be aware of this but once you involve an attorney the dealership will stop all communication with you.

 

[JD Martin]

First don't take this as defending the dealer or Ram.

1. How do you know the truck is devalued? Were you offered a reduced trade in on it because of these items?
2. Just because the door is red inside doesn't mean it's a used door. It was most likely a brand new door that just happened to be painted red already, that they perhaps needed because the original door was unsalvageable.
3. The manufacturer and dealers are allowed to repair damage caused by Acts of God, as long as it was done in such a way that you were left as good or better than without the repair.
4. You do know that plastic body fillers (IE Bondo) is used right at the factory to fill imperfections, right? No bunches of stamped metal panels are going to all come right off the line without flaws, which are going to be fixed in the pre-paint/primer stages. If car manufacturers had to have perfect panels on all vehicles no one could afford to buy them.

Overall what I would say is enjoy your truck and forget about that stuff. Anything you didn't repair, you're certainly not required to speculate on what might have been done at the factory if you sell it or trade it in so you are likely worrying for nothing.

 

[Grams]

You may be aware of this but once you involve an attorney the dealership will stop all communication with you.

That’s because you’ve nominated your attorney to represent you in lieu of yourself. Doh.

And that’s what you Want…. someone who can be held accountable when they otherwise ignore you to your Face!

 

[Riccochet]

I used to work for Jaguar in the early 2000's. Cosmetic damage "generally" does not need to be disclosed to the buyer. LOADS of vehicles are delivered to dealers all over the world with cosmetic damage that needs to be addressed. Sometimes the damage happens and is fixed while the vehicle is sitting in storage waiting for transport, sometimes it happens during transport and is addressed by the dealer.

There are limitations on the type and size of damage that determine whether the damage is reported to the buyer or not. Of course those are manufacturer specific guidelines. Hail damage is not significant enough to report so long as it is repaired to factory condition. Most of the time it can be PDR'd.

If it took you nearly 2 years to notice that it had been repaired you most likely don't have a legal leg to stand on. The dealer might throw you a bone with an extended warranty and some free service.

 

[Wild one]

Keep us updated on how you make out .Honestly i don't think you're gonna get very far,but let us know how things pan out.

 

[mikeru]

That’s because you’ve nominated your attorney to represent you in lieu of yourself. Doh.

And that’s what you Want…. someone who can be held accountable when they otherwise ignore you to your Face!

I hope that attorney is good at servicing or repairing your truck in the future. Because you'll have burned any relationship you may have had with that dealership. Oh, I'm sure they'll change your oil. But for any issues you may have down the road they will not go to bat for you. I prefer to maintain a good relationship with my local dealerships because I never know when I might need them.

Like others have said, this type of thing is common. The OP isn't likely to get satisfaction with this under current laws. Maybe if any of the repairs that might have been made start to become obvious from the outside he could have a case. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just trying to be realistic. And in my opinion it wouldn't be worth burning that bridge. But then again I'm not a litigious person.

 

[turkeybird56]

I hope that attorney is good at servicing or repairing your truck in the future. Because you'll have burned any relationship you may have had with that dealership. Oh, I'm sure they'll change your oil. But for any issues you may have down the road they will not go to bat for you. I prefer to maintain a good relationship with my local dealerships because I never know when I might need them.

Like others have said, this type of thing is common. The OP isn't likely to get satisfaction with this under current laws. Maybe if any of the repairs that might have been made start to become obvious from the outside he could have a case. I'm not saying it's right. I'm just trying to be realistic. And in my opinion it wouldn't be worth burning that bridge. But then again I'm not a litigious person.

Once U burn the bridge U get flagged and good luck getting any satisfaction. OP not know for 2 years. Get over it, drive it and maintain it without lawyers.

But OP yer ride and decisions. Good Luck.

 

[commander]

I have a buddy that worked with me at a collision repair center, he learned how to do PDR and went out on his own. Long story is he was hired by Mercedes or BMW to do PDR work at the factory on quarter panels that had waves in them from the stamping. Pretty sure that the vehicles were already painted. As was stated, it took you a couple years to discover this? NOT defending the dealer or corporation, but how do they know that you didn't have the repairs done? That would be the big question. If you're happy with the truck, drive it and enjoy it.

JT

 

[Grams]

Once U burn the bridge U get flagged and good luck getting any satisfaction. OP not know for 2 years. Get over it, drive it and maintain it without lawyers.

But OP yer ride and decisions. Good Luck.

When I asked my attorney-friend to contact the dealer we received a certified letter inviting me to bring the truck into the shop on a pre-selected appointment…. the service mgr and a factory rep met me…and I was loaned another 1500 for 3 days while they completely replaced the defective instrument cluster and gave me 3 free oil-changes/car-wash coupons.

I never had any further poor experiences with them, and they never treated me with any detectable lack of welcome.. I was also given a $1800 refund check for “inadvertent over-charges” during the initial purchase event, personally handed to me by the owner of the dealerhsip. (Grapevine CJDR, FTW Tx.)

 

[mikeru]

It's great that it worked out for you. Thanks for sharing. There's bound to be good dealerships out there who do the right thing.

 

[Riccochet]

I have a buddy that worked with me at a collision repair center, he learned how to do PDR and went out on his own. Long story is he was hired by Mercedes or BMW to do PDR work at the factory on quarter panels that had waves in them from the stamping. Pretty sure that the vehicles were already painted. As was stated, it took you a couple years to discover this? NOT defending the dealer or corporation, but how do they know that you didn't have the repairs done? That would be the big question. If you're happy with the truck, drive it and enjoy it.

JT

I have a friend that does PDR for dealers all over NC. He makes a ton of money, especially after hail storms.

 

[Grams]

It's great that it worked out for you. Thanks for sharing. There's bound to be good dealerships out there who do the right thing.

My lawyer showed them what was “the right thing”.