Does the 6.4 have lifter issues like the 5.7??

[Dmopar74]

Woops... Don's is a 2014. I could have sworn when I read that yesterday he said it was a 2016.

I had a 16 with an engine replaced once and second engine showing the start of the same problem when I traded it in

 

[crazy jerry]

Sure, swap lifters, cam, and ECU plus pull radiator, AC condenser, oil pan, and all drive accessories. Would you like to cut me a check for $3k and cover all other engine and transmission warranty on my 3yo truck with 29k miles?

i understand its under warranty but at some point you either have to consider fixing it yourself, the right way, once and for all.. or get rid of the vehicle. neither option sounds pleasant but thats life sometimes

my '16 had the notorious fan clutch that always stays engaged. dealer replaced it and right away the new fan was doing the same thing. i got rid of the truck, not because the fan, but had i kept the truck, i would of said hell with going back to the dealer a second time and just fixed it myself. likely with a electric fan

 

[crazy jerry]

Well that sucks. I'm well out of warranty. Guess I need to tighten up on oil changes and keep them healthy. If I end up with that problem I'd try to slide a new lifter in there and trade it in for a Cummins.

seems like theres a thread around here about changing lifters. honestly it didnt look all that difficult with a bit of mechanical knowledge. or get rid of the vehicle. depends how much you like the truck i guess

 

[GsRAM]

This is the first I've heard of this problem. I wouldn't worry about it personally. I'm not going to worry about it. Too many other bigger things in my life to worry about. Could there be a back order because they need those lifters for new production engines?

I'm going to run it and continue my 5k OCIs and lock out MDS on a regular basis as I have been doing since very early on. If I have an issue I'll deal with it at that time.

The 6.4 has treated me very well for going on 3 yes now and there's a thread out there for how many miles on your 6.4....go check that out. There's some high mileage, problem free 6.4s out there already.

Or if your that concerned go buy a pos GM product, Toyota, Nissan, Ford if you think they are problem free think again. They all have issues

My ram is night and day better than the pos 15 Silverado I had. That thing had so many issues it was ridiculous. I'm very happy with my ram so far. Good luck.

 

[Iron Outlaw]

Reloader guy, when your lifters went bad were they in the same hole everytime or was it a different one each time?

 

[WY.Ram]

Yes, the 6.4 has a serious issue with MDS lifters going out. I'm on my 4th set, each time FCA has had a 10k+ unit back order. It's not isolated to the 6.4, the bad lifters are in ever Hemi engine made.

Sounds like you have the prognosis for a shelled lifter down to an art (bummer). What early indications do you look for aside from the tick and what steps would you recommend following to immediately confirm a failed lifter?

Thanks




2016 RAM 2500 pw | 392ci w 6spd | CAI w ARH long tubes & Solo | Diablo T2 w HF tune | 5.13 AAM w 35" Mickey MTs | Custom Graphics w illegal tint | Dodge Off-Road

 

[reloaderguy]

Sounds like you have the prognosis for a shelled lifter down to an art (bummer). What early indications do you look for aside from the tick and what steps would you recommend following to immediately confirm a failed lifter?

Thanks




2016 RAM 2500 pw | 392ci w 6spd | CAI w ARH long tubes & Solo | Diablo T2 w HF tune | 5.13 AAM w 35" Mickey MTs | Custom Graphics w illegal tint | Dodge Off-Road

This pertains to MDS equipped Hemi's only:


Sure, "Hemi Tick" is almost always a bad lifter. You should be able to easily hear the lifter going out, it is distinct from injector noise. The problem is most dealers are really just parts swappers and if the computer isn't throwing a code they don't know what to do. They also don't know what they're looking at when they have a bad MDS lifter in their hand. A bad lifter may take 50K miles to cause a catastrophic failure so you'll be well out of warranty when the metal from your grooved/chunked cam causes a spun rod bearing or wears out your cam bearings. When an MDS lifter goes out (not the roller tip) there is a small pin in the lifter body in that spins over and causes the lifter to momentarily collapse during engine operation, that is the ticking you hear.

FWIW, roller lifters have a finite service life regardless of brand. They may live 200k miles or only 70k miles and is the reason most engine builders recommend new lifters when tearing down an engine 70k miles and up. MDS just compounds the already tenuous service life of the part. Chevy has the same exact failure rate too.

As far as what to do, you need to find a service dealer that is capable of building gas engines. The dealer that has my truck specializes in SRT products and building Hellcat based drag cars. They have built enough boosted Apache based SRT8 cars to know what a premature MDS lifter failure sounds and looks like. They are very good. Unfortunately they are eight hours from my home. The good news is the truck is fixed and waiting for me to pick up. No telling how long the lifters will last this time. If it happens again I'll do a HC lifter/cam swap.

 

[reloaderguy]

Reloader guy, when your lifters went bad were they in the same hole everytime or was it a different one each time?

Unfortunately since I didn't do the work myself I have no way of knowing. I don't think the dealer kept track of it either. I would normally do the work myself but I don't have garage large enough to do the work in the time it would take me.

 

[Iron Outlaw]

Unfortunately since I didn't do the work myself I have no way of knowing. I don't think the dealer kept track of it either. I would normally do the work myself but I don't have garage large enough to do the work in the time it would take me.

Ok. Just curious. I'm not a mechanice by any means but know enough to get myself into trouble lol. Just wondering if theifter failed and damaged the cam or something and caused the next lifter to fail prematurely.

It's a shame we have to put up with this. I mean how many mpg does this actually add you know? I'd rather save money up front and get .2 less mpgs than have all this advanced stuff to put up with.

 

[reloaderguy]

Ok. Just curious. I'm not a mechanice by any means but know enough to get myself into trouble lol. Just wondering if theifter failed and damaged the cam or something and caused the next lifter to fail prematurely.

It's a shame we have to put up with this. I mean how many mpg does this actually add you know? I'd rather save money up front and get .2 less mpgs than have all this advanced stuff to put up with.

The cam was inspected. The service director and the techs all thought they'd find a damaged cam but they couldn't see anything wrong with it.

 

[Lunch]

Hi all! Had to have my 2013 5.7 rebuild after a lifter went out and wiped a lobe on my camshaft at 139k miles. Pretty bummed that the motor had to be rebuilt that early. That was a year ago.

Well, 50k miles later, I’m considering getting into a 2018 or 2019 Power Wagon.

My question is this...what do I need to know about the 6.4L, other than it’s a thirsty girl? Do they have lifter issues? Hemi-tick? I’m a little gun-shy after the problems with my 5.7.

Thanks!

 

[Lunch]

Good lord you must have some other issue like geometry being off or something. I understand stuff happening but 4 sets of lifters is unacceptable.

Mine went at 41000

 

[Lunch]

Annoying yes but it beats the fraud and the underpowered gmc

 

[JimE]

This pertains to MDS equipped Hemi's only:


Sure, "Hemi Tick" is almost always a bad lifter. You should be able to easily hear the lifter going out, it is distinct from injector noise. The problem is most dealers are really just parts swappers and if the computer isn't throwing a code they don't know what to do. They also don't know what they're looking at when they have a bad MDS lifter in their hand. A bad lifter may take 50K miles to cause a catastrophic failure so you'll be well out of warranty when the metal from your grooved/chunked cam causes a spun rod bearing or wears out your cam bearings. When an MDS lifter goes out (not the roller tip) there is a small pin in the lifter body in that spins over and causes the lifter to momentarily collapse during engine operation, that is the ticking you hear.

FWIW, roller lifters have a finite service life regardless of brand. They may live 200k miles or only 70k miles and is the reason most engine builders recommend new lifters when tearing down an engine 70k miles and up. MDS just compounds the already tenuous service life of the part. Chevy has the same exact failure rate too.

As far as what to do, you need to find a service dealer that is capable of building gas engines. The dealer that has my truck specializes in SRT products and building Hellcat based drag cars. They have built enough boosted Apache based SRT8 cars to know what a premature MDS lifter failure sounds and looks like. They are very good. Unfortunately they are eight hours from my home. The good news is the truck is fixed and waiting for me to pick up. No telling how long the lifters will last this time. If it happens again I'll do a HC lifter/cam swap.

At last someone making comments here that actually understands internal combustion engines. For all other participants a bit of basic engine 101 facts Cam, lifter, upper engine oiling issues, and oil quality have been the curse of virtually all engines designed since 1949 (note "designed" not simply produced). The real enemy being bean counter cost logic intruding into engine design reliability. "Cheaper to produce" and reliability are totally incompatible concepts.

For whatever reason fuel economy has been an issue even when it didn't need to be when gasoline was actually a waste bi-product of oil refining (refining a 42 gallon barrel of oil results in 17 gallons or more of gasoline want it or not). In te 1950's and before it was not uncommon for refiners to simply flare it off that which was in excess of demand at service stations. I well remember if one lived in an area with refineries retail gasoline often being less than $0.19 a gallon. That all stopped when the two week family driving vacation cased demand to catch up with accidental production. Preoccupation with what we now call MDS began with the realization that a full size car moving at 60 mph actually had weight on the ground of around 8 lbs., thus the late 1960's the notion of fuel economy being increased through the reduction of active cylinders. Impossible to implement with mechanical fuel injection that existed at the time.

Now to the specific issue of lifter failure. This will always be a magnified problem with MDS engines of any displacement primarily from both varnish build up and metal particles finding their way into lifters that are routinely out of functional use. The latter leading to the age old argument concerning viscosity. As a matter of personal opinion it is insane to expect 0, 5, and 10 weight oils to remain on engine surfaces that rotate in sufficient amount to prevent accelerated wear during a cold start. Thin oils my flow faster but not fast enough to prevent cam and crankshaft damage during a cold start. Those minute cold start metal particles in the oil will ruin lifters.

 

[Iron Outlaw]

So my question is this, if I tow almost exclusively with my truck and never allow the Mds to kick in, does that lower my chance of having mds lifter failure? Say vs someone who mainly cruises highways with no extra weight?

 

[GsRAM]

My personal opinion, without any factual information to back it up is yes, from a common sense standpoint.

I don't like, nor do I think it's good to have the constant flip flopping back and forth (cylinders going on and off with the mds).

A V8 engine was designed to run with all 8 holes lit all the time. Again, this is why I almost always put my truck in manual mode and lock out mds.

When I'm out of warranty I'll install a tune that permanently turns off the mds and be done with it. It's a gimmick that really does not improve fuel mileage a substantial amount to make it worth the drawbacks noted in this thread.

Not sure I agree with the comment about roller lifters in this thread. I've owned several roller cam 302/5.0 mustang's and run the heck out of em with no issues. They are very stout engines. Just my .02.

 

[Hd74ica]

My observation is that MDS does not improve fuel economy and I've started locking out MDS for all driving. Weight , heavy throttle, and wind resistance are the main culprits for poor MPG IMHO. Great thread and great info.

David
Lake Superior, Michigan

 

[pwjouster]

25k Hard miles on my 18 powerwagon. December 17 delivery.

i abuse the engine, but 100% of the time, i lock out MDS by shifting the gear selector to 6th.
Early on, the truck had some terrible Hemi tick episodes during some cold starts, but that has mostly subsided.

Now it just has a little Hemi tick all the time, but not a bad thing. Hemi engines Have the Loudest Lifter and valve setup ive ever owned.

The hellcat ticked like a tourettes ridden half kitty/half pig moster.
Also had an idle whine worse than my French Bulldogs A**hole, (not sure how long that SC would have lasted)

Buy a 6.4 and never look back...if my top end goes out, in goes a Crate HC 6.2 mated to my rebuilt 66rfe.
Im nearly certain, that with the right gearing, and no towing, it would be the most kickass combo.

The block and top end in the 6.4 is built like a brick house and meant to be squeezed.
Lifters are a wear item, just like Pistons and the Block itself.
Thats why i always sell my vehicles right after 20k miles or so, but believe it or not, not the plan with the TrailWhale.

300K miles here we come

 

[reloaderguy]

So my question is this, if I tow almost exclusively with my truck and never allow the Mds to kick in, does that lower my chance of having mds lifter failure? Say vs someone who mainly cruises highways with no extra weight?

No. The issue isn't the functionality of the MDS system.

 

[reloaderguy]

25k Hard miles on my 18 powerwagon. December 17 delivery.

i abuse the engine, but 100% of the time, i lock out MDS by shifting the gear selector to 6th.
Early on, the truck had some terrible Hemi tick episodes during some cold starts, but that has mostly subsided.

Now it just has a little Hemi tick all the time, but not a bad thing. Hemi engines Have the Loudest Lifter and valve setup ive ever owned.

The hellcat ticked like a tourettes ridden half kitty/half pig moster.
Also had an idle whine worse than my French Bulldogs A**hole, (not sure how long that SC would have lasted)

Buy a 6.4 and never look back...if my top end goes out, in goes a Crate HC 6.2 mated to my rebuilt 66rfe.
Im nearly certain, that with the right gearing, and no towing, it would be the most kickass combo.

The block and top end in the 6.4 is built like a brick house and meant to be squeezed.
Lifters are a wear item, just like Pistons and the Block itself.
Thats why i always sell my vehicles right after 20k miles or so, but believe it or not, not the plan with the TrailWhale.

300K miles here we come

That all might be true but MDS lifters are unreliable.