Grounding TB

[joetama]

what does earth ground have to do with reducing static in a vehicle?

You can't remove static to an 'electrical ground' which is really just a negative or 0 voltage source depending on how you look at it not a real ground.

(I at least don't think you can. There is no path for the static to go anywhere. In actuality you might actually introduce more current travel across the TB by making a ground loop with the TB in its path.)

I might be over thinking this.

 

[glass3222]

You can't remove static to an 'electrical ground' which is really just a negative or 0 voltage source depending on how you look at it not a real ground.

(I at least don't think you can. There is no path for the static to go anywhere. In actuality you might actually introduce more current travel across the TB by making a ground loop with the TB in its path.)

I might be over thinking this.

I think you are over thinking it.

Just like with an amp for subs, you need a good ground to chassis, or you will get static, this can do the same with the TB. Since you only can ground things to the chassis (body and frame) and engine block, they are all tied together in some way to give a consistant 0 volt reference (ground). There is no way to get an earth ground with a vehicle. The more places you can tie stuff to ground, the shorter distance and less resistance there is for any static to get to the ground.

 

[joetama]

I think you are over thinking it.

Just like with an amp for subs, you need a good ground to chassis, or you will get static, this can do the same with the TB. Since you only can ground things to the chassis (body and frame) and engine block, they are all tied together in some way to give a consistant 0 volt reference (ground). There is no way to get an earth ground with a vehicle. The more places you can tie stuff to ground, the shorter distance and less resistance there is for any static to get to the ground.

I'm going to have to disagree. You don't get nor do you always want to go to chassis for 'ground' or 0 Volts on a vehicle. If it was true you get ground from the chassis then you wouldn't need a connection to the battery negative. The low point in electrical potential in a vehicle is always the battery negative. (Since there is no earth ground which is true 0) The chassis is nothing but a large, sometimes very resistive, common wire. Moreover what we think of as the common ground of a vehicle isn't close to a earth ground and could hold its own potential if the battery negative does as well. If the negative at a battery was 1000 volts to earth ground and the positive was 1012 to earth ground every system on the vehicle would function without issue because there is only 12 volts potential difference in the system of the vehicle. Old tractors for example had grounding systems (common/chassis ground) that could be +6, -6, -12 volts in relation to earth ground.

Example, a two-way radio I worked on the other day in a yard truck was shutting off when the radio was transmitted. The problem lied with the battery negative to chassis connection as the radio negative was attached to the vehicle chassis giving a 12.9 VDC reading. As a fix I attached the radio to an electrical ground directly connected to the negative on the battery at 13.74 VDC and told the owner of the truck he had a grounding (to the source aka the battery) issue. The important part in DC systems is the path. That path can be through a wire or through the chassis the path has to be of low resistance to the battery.

I did just look it up in my physics textbook, static electricity potential can only be completely returned to earth ground. It can be transferred to different objects but only returned to earth ground. In a vehicle there is no earth ground. As for the current over the throttle body, if you are common grounding the engine at two distant points and there is positive voltage introduced between those two points the current will follow the paths of least resistance back. One path might be 1 ohm over the block ground the TB ground 2 ohms, but current will flow through both. Introducing a ground loop and a voltage potential.

 

[scotts2012ram]

Joe I think he's saying the frame because the batter is hooked to it. I think this ground just has to do with resistance. Its like the car audio guy doing the big3

 

[BigH0ss]

Who u guys are looking way to far into this. Just do it and see what u think lol

 

[glass3222]

Joe I think he's saying the frame because the batter is hooked to it. I think this ground just has to do with resistance. Its like the car audio guy doing the big3

Exactly. I just did not explain it well

 

[joetama]

Partly my bad as well. I was feeling combative. Sorry guys.

 

[glass3222]

Partly my bad as well. I was feeling combative. Sorry guys.

I took no offense, constuctive discussion IMO.

 

[Hammer_Z71]

I did it Friday. 1st thing I noticed was that my idle which has ALWAYS fluctuated about 200 RPM or so, now holds rock steady. You'd swear the needle was in a fixed position as I cannot detect ANY movement in it.
I would right away deduce that this may be a fix for the guys experiencing the "stalling at red lights" issue. Worth a try anyway.

It's hard for me to say for 100% certainty, but I am pretty sure I feel a quicker throttle response.

But the steady idle tells me right away the wire does something.

BTW, it's not so much the static, but the electronic noise that it gets rid of. Think of that car stereo you installed that whined like hell when you accerated. This fix was a better ground. Same principle.

For the cost (in my case I had a pre=terminated 4 AWG I use to connect batteries laying around) which is nothing or next to nothing and the time it takes to do (took me less than 5 minutes, but I have a CAI so the screw was easy to get to), IMO this is a mod you need to at least try.

You don't need a 4 gauge cable, I'd say anything larger than about 14 gauge would suffice. I first connected to the negative battery post, then moved it to chassis ground on the passenger side and the results appeared to be the same. I left it on the chassis ground only because my 4 gauge length allowed me to zip-tie it to the firewall and my CAI heat shield bracket to keep it neat & tidy. Battery ground would have meant laying it across the engine...

 

[03MopaRamman]

I have some TB and idle issues on occassion with my 03 so like I said before I am gonna try this, and having a grounding strap dragging under my Truck may add to the Pyscology of this? If Hammer says he noticed a diff, I beleive!

 

[smiley]

going to try it today

 

[Stangshcky12]

Im gonna try it on my dads 11 but I'm not going to tell him and see if he sees any difference in a few weeks

 

[1500ram12]

very interesting. going to give it a shot this weekend

 

[smiley]

Did it and I do notice a seemingly better idle. I will drive after lunch and see how it does.


$miley

 

[Mega-Hemi]

Did mine yesterday. Didn't notice any power difference but definitely a better idle. My tuck has had a "shutter" or "stumble" to its idle since the day I bought it. I sat in it last night for about 5 min and could barely tell it was even running it was so smooth. Funny thing is my 5.9 that wasn't fly by wire did the same thing so I just figured it was a Dodge thing. I'll hafta give my brother the heads up as he's on his 3rd HEMI. I'm sure he feels it too.

I wonder if this will work in my wifes 3.7 Jeep too?? She has the same stumble at idle...


I also wonder if those static strips everyone used to hang from the back of their vehicles would help with the earth ground..

 

[CrazyBen]

My assumption is that the stepper motor that is used to drive the throttle body is probably grounded to the engine which is in turn grounded to the chasis and grounded to the battery. With the gaskets and loctite that is used on the throttle body I would assume that ground isn't that good. This just improves the ground so you get a more solid ~14.7v sweep as I am sure if you connected an o-scope at idle you would see the voltage change slightly and you wouldn't get the same voltage as the voltage refernce (the battery). It would be especially noticable at idle because the low voltage at idle would slow the moving of the throttle blade and cause the ecu to over correct.

As far as non-dbw vehicles showing the same issues it may still work. This is because ndbw throttle bodies use an idle air control valve that operates on a similar principle.

 

[bigtigga84]

did this tonight before i left work. definitely noticed a difference in shifting. normally i have to life a little bit to make the truck **** into 5th after getting up to 55. truck shifted on it's own at about 52. kinda shocked me cuz i wasn't expecting it lol. then in my development, same scenario. gotta get up above 25 and then let off for it to down shift. truck again shifted on it's own right around 25.

 

[bigtigga84]

really has me considering going the dynamic grounding route and upgrading all the grounds just to see what it does.

 

[09SMOKINHEMI]

really has me considering going the dynamic grounding route and upgrading all the grounds just to see what it does.

what all will you be grounding?

 

[bigtigga84]

Bigger battery ground to body. bigger body to frame ground. trans ground if i can figure out were it suppose to be. and upgrade the alt to battery wire.