Hemi cam & lifter issues—does Uncle Tony have a point?

[vdemarco]

hope you are being funny and not trolling. There is literally a guy on here with a 2019 with around 21k miles that just had his motor replaced due to this. But keep drinking the koolaid.

What was wrong with the engine, the cam lifter thing should only require a cam lifter change.

Also looking on the internet, found lots of mechanics with you tube channels that said that. THere was a quote here or another forum where they said that fca changed the parts.

 

[Burla]

Many times here guys have replaced new lifters and cams only to have hemi tick. Some of our forum sponsors wont even sell lifters but they sell everything else, don't you find that really really telling? They used to sell them, but too many times someone would want a refund because new lifters often tick. It's the block design, not the lifters. Many lifters are being sold all over the truck world, only we are known for hemi tick and massive cam fails.

 

[69GWC]

What was wrong with the engine, the cam lifter thing should only require a cam lifter change.

Also looking on the internet, found lots of mechanics with you tube channels that said that. THere was a quote here or another forum where they said that fca changed the parts.

Alot of the times when the lifter locks up it eats the cam and fills the motor with metal shavings that will score the rod bearings and ruin the motor.

But this is a ongoing problem.

 

[vdemarco]

Many times here guys have replaced new lifters and cams only to have hemi tick. Some of our forum sponsors wont even sell lifters but they sell everything else, don't you find that really really telling? They used to sell them, but too many times someone would want a refund because new lifters often tick. It's the block design, not the lifters. Many lifters are being sold all over the truck world, only we are known for hemi tick and massive cam fails.

there are a ton of videos online from MMX (http://www.modernmusclextreme.com) that show aftermarket lifters that drain the oil super fast. MMX set up the entire business around the hemi engine, cams and tuning.

Just saying that we really don't know the entire story.

Somebody said did i drink the koolaid, well yes i just bought a 70,000 truck last week, and in 2009 we bought a 50,000 Durango.

the family has owned

1977 Charger
1986 Dodge Daytona
1981 350 Dodge Van
1981 150 Dodge Ram Truck
1998 Durango (260,000 miles)
2009 Durango
2020 Rebel.

So have i drunk the koolaid well yes.

 

[Burla]

In the link you provided the only lifters I see they sell for 4 gens is Mopar lifters and they want 800 bucks for them? Why do they say gen 3? I'm fuesing those will work with 4 gens as well?

No thanks.

 

[buddy guy]

What was wrong with the engine, the cam lifter thing should only require a cam lifter change.

Also looking on the internet, found lots of mechanics with you tube channels that said that. THere was a quote here or another forum where they said that fca changed the parts.

It is true that FC has changed the lifters at least 3 times. We can only assume that its trying to make the situation better. But it could also just be part # revisions. I have not read anything about a cam change...whether for performance or relative to this issue. Granted, I could have missed it[emoji1]

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

 

[pacofortacos]

When people replace the cam and lifters, I wonder how many really look closely at the rocker, rocker shafts and pushrods. After all that is how the lifter gets it's oil.

You also have to remember this is a very high performance engine for a truck engine. Over 1.1 hp per cubic inch is nothing to sneeze at.
Even the legendary motors of days gone by weren't that much from the factory.

I think a tad more valve spring pressure wouldn't hurt either - well other than mpg.

 

[Burla]

When people replace the cam and lifters, I wonder how many really look closely at the rocker, rocker shafts and pushrods. After all that is how the lifter gets it's oil.

You also have to remember this is a very high performance engine for a truck engine. Over 1.1 hp per cubic inch is nothing to sneeze at.
Even the legendary motors of days gone by weren't that much from the factory.

I think a tad more valve spring pressure wouldn't hurt either - well other than mpg.

for sure

 

[El Huapo]

I’ll have to look next time we have one in the shop. Most of the time though the roller is seized and ground down. Usually if there’s any damage on the sides of the roller it’s because the roller was ground down so far that the cam lobe was now contacting the side of the roller. I know I’ve heard people say the lifters rotate sideways in the bore sometimes but I’ve yet to see that happen. Usually looks like this.

View attachment 211211

So I too watched Uncle Tony's video and I have to wonder why I don't hear about what I (IMHO) think he concluded to be a major issue with those Hemi lifters---that there is no hole in the depths of the lifters which would dribble oil onto the roller and thus the cam lobe? I'm assuming oil does indeed go in there...
It would seem that some smart aftermarket outfit would manufacture a lifter with that little hole, no? A small hole there shouldn't dump oil pressure in the rest of the motor. Since the lifters per his video do come apart, I *think* even I could set up a drill press to just bore a little hole in there and stop before impacting the roller's surface. Am I off-planet here? Anyone tried it? Can't help but wonder, but I'm just a hill-billy, not really involved in this battle.
NOTE: I'm pretty new here and have not read each and every post throughout this fine publication and apologize if this has been done and I'm wasting everyone's time.

 

[vdemarco]

Watch this video, its also very interesting.

He tests a bunch of lifters, and finds that some are just bad, they dump out a ton of oil, which causes new different problems. the hole in the lifter dumps too much oil.



TO add to this thread though, on my 2020 i did add a bottle of lubeguard. I got the extended warranty, with the maintenance (yeah i know expensive). So the dealer will change the oil/filter etc.

on my wifes 2011 Durango, i added a bottle of Lucas, quite a while back, her car on start up is just totally silent. on the 2011 5.7 i have been using 5w30 most of the time, with sometimes it being 5w20. I am more concerned about the durango than my ram at the moment.

 

[Wild one]

In the link you provided the only lifters I see they sell for 4 gens is Mopar lifters and they want 800 bucks for them? Why do they say gen 3? I'm fuesing those will work with 4 gens as well?

No thanks.

Mike the trucks are called 4th Gen trucks,but the engine is actually called a 3rd Gen Hemi.The first Gen Hemi's were the old Red Ram Hemi's from the 50's that were 313 to 392 cubes,the 2nd Gen Hemi is the old Lengedary 426 Hemi from the mid 60's to early 70's,and now the last version of the Hemi including the 5.7/ 6.2 / 6.4 are called the 3 rd Gen Hemi.

 

[Burla]

Mike the trucks are called 4th Gen trucks,but the engine is actually called a 3rd Gen Hemi.The first Gen Hemi's were the old Red Ram Hemi's from the 50's that were 313 to 392 cubes,the 2nd Gen Hemi is the old Lengedary 426 Hemi from the mid 60's to early 70's,and now the last version of the Hemi including the 5.7/ 6.2 / 6.4 are called the 3 rd Gen Hemi.

cool, I thought maybe they were talking about internal third gen lifters, as in their third gen. Good to know, thanks

 

[pacofortacos]

Burla, I am going to try something different on my next oil change.
I ordered a few quarts of the Redline racing oil, I am thinking 1 qt of that in 20W (aka 5w20) mixed with either PP or QS (though the motor is noisier on QS) and see what happens.
I probably should have gone with the racing 5w-30 instead and mixed it with 5w-20 PP.
But I do have a bit of 0W-30 Redline red bottle I can mix in.

The racing zinc and moly is off the charts but the detergent package is weak However, between the PP and 5k mile oil changes I am not worried about the detergent package. Especially since the truck is only driven on vacation so the miles are quick miles.

 

[16RamHemi]

What was wrong with the engine, the cam lifter thing should only require a cam lifter change.

Also looking on the internet, found lots of mechanics with you tube channels that said that. THere was a quote here or another forum where they said that fca changed the parts.

Dont take this personally, but im not going to go search for that thread. dont have the time. i was just pointing out that a member on here had to have stuff replaced in a 2019. your comment was typed out as, and i read it as fact that parts were changed and no more problems. that is simply not the case. if you watch the video circling around, it shows a lubrication issue with these motors due to a bad design. they have not changed that aspect. maybe, just maybe they changed cams, or rollers / lifters, but the design still causes the same problem. trust me, i wish it could be said with certainty that things have been addressed and changed. its just not the case. thats too bad as i love my truck. but my next truck will not be a hemi because of this. im not playing roulette with the heart of my truck. Engine and trans are pretty important pieces and they are the most expensive.

 

[Burla]

Burla, I am going to try something different on my next oil change.
I ordered a few quarts of the Redline racing oil, I am thinking 1 qt of that in 20W (aka 5w20) mixed with either PP or QS (though the motor is noisier on QS) and see what happens.
I probably should have gone with the racing 5w-30 instead and mixed it with 5w-20 PP.
But I do have a bit of 0W-30 Redline red bottle I can mix in.

The racing zinc and moly is off the charts but the detergent package is weak However, between the PP and 5k mile oil changes I am not worried about the detergent package. Especially since the truck is only driven on vacation so the miles are quick miles.

Verify the following with Dave from redline, and always ask redline corp if you have a question. In the past racing oils lacked detergency, they would opt out of calcium and load up in zinc and moly. I do believe redline may have went to more of street racing oil and other manu's have as well, which means it does have CA. I also just posted this again verify with Dave buy I believe their racing oil has 880ppm moly and high performance is around 500ppm moly.

So I'm surprised more people haven't did similar to you, at least try one quart and see if it kills tick like an additive. If it is a noisy engine, I would bet going all the way 5w30 would be the way to go, but if it is a ticking engine a qrt or two might just stop the ticking. Noisy engines benefit from viscosity, ticking engines laugh at viscosity and require high EP additives, and by the way every bitog "oil" guy disagrees with that, but we at ram forum know better. The only reason to go to BITOG is to play name that gender game with pim weasel, if you want oil strategies good for hemi's you need to just stay here. Look at the hemi threads over there, ol. Pim weasel "just run oil in a box" and you will be fine. I think your strategy is good enough to try man.

 

[Burla]

Dont take this personally, but im not going to go search for that thread. dont have the time. i was just pointing out that a member on here had to have stuff replaced in a 2019. your comment was typed out as, and i read it as fact that parts were changed and no more problems. that is simply not the case. if you watch the video circling around, it shows a lubrication issue with these motors due to a bad design. they have not changed that aspect. maybe, just maybe they changed cams, or rollers / lifters, but the design still causes the same problem. trust me, i wish it could be said with certainty that things have been addressed and changed. its just not the case. thats too bad as i love my truck. but my next truck will not be a hemi because of this. im not playing roulette with the heart of my truck. Engine and trans are pretty important pieces and they are the most expensive.

I will never own another hemi, and in fact never buy a modern engine at all. If this truck ever gets totalled, I'm going to the 90's when **** made sense.

 

[16RamHemi]

I will never own another hemi, and in fact never buy a modern engine at all. If this truck ever gets totalled, I'm going to the 90's when **** made sense.

I hear ya. If you can find one in good shape. If my truck lasts long enough and doesnt cause me to put too much into it, ill probably save up for a nice cummins mega cab. i really need to space. Gonna have 3 little ones to drive around. I also need a full size bed. this 5'7 crap just isnt cutting it. I have access to a great cummins mechanic, which imo is a huge piece. Plus they will last.

 

[Burla]

Cummins is still good, but every damn thing they threw at it is a killer. Go get a HO and never look back.

 

[pacofortacos]

Verify the following with Dave from redline, and always ask redline corp if you have a question. In the past racing oils lacked detergency, they would opt out of calcium and load up in zinc and moly. I do believe redline may have went to more of street racing oil and other manu's have as well, which means it does have CA. I also just posted this again verify with Dave buy I believe their racing oil has 880ppm moly and high performance is around 500ppm moly.

So I'm surprised more people haven't did similar to you, at least try one quart and see if it kills tick like an additive. If it is a noisy engine, I would bet going all the way 5w30 would be the way to go, but if it is a ticking engine a qrt or two might just stop the ticking. Noisy engines benefit from viscosity, ticking engines laugh at viscosity and require high EP additives, and by the way every bitog "oil" guy disagrees with that, but we at ram forum know better. The only reason to go to BITOG is to play name that gender game with pim weasel, if you want oil strategies good for hemi's you need to just stay here. Look at the hemi threads over there, ol. Pim weasel "just run oil in a box" and you will be fine. I think your strategy is good enough to try man.

It doesn't specify the moly but it does say

Phosphorus, avg PPM 2000
Zinc, avg PPM 2250
and
Racing oils provide more wear protection than motor oils for passenger vehicles, however, these products contain fewer detergents and are not suitable for street use

• Reformulated for improved frictional properties
• Special detergents for improved lubricity and less detonation
• Polyol ester base stocks provide more stability and film strength when exposed to excess fuel dilution
• Each of these products has no less than 2200ppm of zinc and phosphorus for antiwear
• Each race oil product is a multi-grade, offering 2-4% more power than oil of a similar viscosity - 20WT is a 5W20, 30WT is a 10W30, 40WT is a 15W40, 50WT is a 15W50
• Improved protection at startup, lower oil temp, cleanliness
• Remember to change these oils more frequently than regular motor oils

 

[Burla]

I'm just saying I just posted this per dave in syn thread about a month ago, moly 880ppm. I forget why it came up. The zinc hasn't been effective in any part of hemi tick, but it might help with a noisy engine. There is some real good posts on zinc in syn thread, but sadly I didn't keep them so who knows what pages there on. When we started this back in 2011, redline HP had 880ppm moly, so you will being going back to that formula.

Mind you that zinc is pretty high for cats, 2002 levels were 1200ppm, api after that 800ppm. Point being, I wouldn't use race oil as 100% of the sump, but as an additive to 800ppm zinc oil that should be fine. Like will end up 2002 level zinc when said and done 2 qrts racing oil added to 5 qrts whatever.