If you live or work on top of a hill

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boblonben

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The point is that the truck does its own thing until computer will let it work right
The truck is good in third gear after warm
Correct way to drive is using the gears to hold speed down hill
That is why I ask for people that live or work on top off a hill so they will see first hand what I mean
It is simple programming that will not be fixed until more people complain about it
Your brakes are to stop you not to be used to hold speed down on a hill
Gee, really, but ya know for most of us who DO live on hills know that you gotta use your bake lightly down hill movement. Just trying to use engine gearing and all just does not work in all cases, without running too high in RPM. Mine in third or fourth will do just fine and hold at around 3400 rpm and not go over. It is a 2017 Crew Cab 4X4 5.7.
 

boblonben

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The point is that the truck does its own thing until computer will let it work right
The truck is good in third gear after warm
Correct way to drive is using the gears to hold speed down hill
That is why I ask for people that live or work on top off a hill so they will see first hand what I mean
It is simple programming that will not be fixed until more people complain about it
Your brakes are to stop you not to be used to hold speed down on a hill
Gee, really, but ya know for most of us who DO live on hills know that you gotta use your brake lightly on down hill movement. Just trying to use engine gearing and all just does not work in all cases, without running too high in RPM. Mine in third or fourth will do just fine and hold at around 3400 rpm and not go over. It is a 2017 Crew Cab 4X4 5.7.
 

68PowerWagon

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My only suggestion would be to let it get off of high idle before you go down the hill. Mine usually comes off within a few minutes.
 

rpr

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I think we’re talking about two different issues here. Most of these posts relate to driving methods. The OP’s post relates to the truck “pushing him down a hill”. My 2014 does this as well. This does not mean that I’m not braking, I am, but when I come down my steep driveway (~15% grade), it will downshift and literally push me down and I need to really get on the brakes to maintain a slow speed.

In my mind, there is an issue with the programming on these trannies. For what it’s worth, I have the 8-speed. It’s already been replaced once.
 

Jimmy07

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I was taught to use your gears going down a hill
My 2018 1500 pushes you down the hill
When I use second gear with 321 gears the RPM goes up to 4700
The general manager of my dealership lives in the same area and leaves his in drive (he does not pay for his breaks) he tried with his truck second gear 392 gears and it ran up over 5000 RPM
He has emailed FCA but told me nothing will happen until south of the border complains
Please check to see if yours does this and complain for me as they will not fix and make this right unless you help
If I warm my truck up first it will hold in third gear down hill no brakes
Thanks in advance Bruce
When you asked this same question a few months ago, the answer is in post #2. Did you think the answer has changed since then? https://www.ramforum.com/threads/fca-programers-not-very-bright.149072/
Give the truck half a chance, instead of firing it up, immediately throwing it in gear, and rip downhill.
 

Wild one

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People are not under standing
The computer is trying to give more fuel to heat system up when you want no extra fuel
and this is not like a carb that you can kick off high idle
if warm enough out it will slow down half way down hill when the computer thinks it is ok to do so
I need people that have cold start and go down a hill to help not people question why I donot want to drive like some one that cannot drive a manual transmission and not know how to use gears to drive down a hill
I donot want to be one of the stupid drivers that eat brakes when gears are a safer and better way to go

Brakes are cheaper then replacing your 8 speed.I've said this before in your other post,why not kick it into neutral and then lightly use the brakes to control speed.You're not going to put much wear and tear on your brake pads if it's coasting and you just lightly apply them. I still think at your age,you're expecting it to act like a carb,and it's not going to do that,no matter how much you yell and ***** about FCA's cold start programming.
 

Marshall

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I don't have mountains, but the river valley is a 7d grade, I think about one mile.
my 8 sp with 3.9 grs.will hold at 90-100km, there is a 80km corner, so just a touch of brake there.
My older one 09 with the 6sp? was it would not hold as good
I kick off the cruise.

Just read the last, Kicking a truck in neutral sounds like a silly idea. we did that as kids, I guess but when I had my old 13sp RR, the last thing you want is neutral
 
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Wild one

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I don't have mountains, but the river valley is a 7d grade, I think about one mile.
my 8 sp with 3.9 grs.will hold at 90-100km, there is a 80km corner, so just a touch of brake there.
My older one 09 with the 6sp? was it would not hold as good
I kick off the cruise.

Just read the last, Kicking a truck in neutral sounds like a silly idea. we did that as kids, I guess but when I had my old 13sp RR, the last thing you want is neutral

He's not hauling 80,000 lbs ,lol. You don't kick a semi into neutral down a 6% + grade unless you want to die,but a half ton has more then enough brakes to control it's speed down a hill especially unloaded . Which river valley are you driving into in Saskatchewan,i grew up in that province,lol.
 

ram1500rsm

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Brakes are cheaper then replacing your 8 speed.I've said this before in your other post,why not kick it into neutral and then lightly use the brakes to control speed.You're not going to put much wear and tear on your brake pads if it's coasting and you just lightly apply them. I still think at your age,you're expecting it to act like a carb,and it's not going to do that,no matter how much you yell and ***** about FCA's cold start programming.

What do you mean throw in N and apply the brakes, lol WTF....??????
If she's going down hill the transmission can be manually shifted up and/or down on command, even if you didn't go downhill, you can shift any modern trans up/down as you wish. And it'll be better if you selected the proper gear to do some rev matching and hold the truck weight with both brakes and trans when going downhill. You're not going to damage the trans because of it. If it happened i'll get rid of the truck as quickly as possible and badmouth the vehicle for having such a chitty trans everywhere i'll go. This are not the 60's anymore. Auto trans are in many many respects a lot better than the best manual trans we ever had. I still love a manul trans don't get me wrong and i know how to kung fu kick the clutch when needed as well lol, but auto trans are just damn impressive now days, especially the ZF8.

If the OP really wanted to tackle this as a programming issue, the answer could be as simple as changing the shift points with HPtuners. i've looked in the tune for both trans though in a couple of Hemi 1500's including mine, 6 and 8 speed, and i don't see a parameter to define shift points based on engine coolant or trans temp per se. I see tables in the 6 speed trans for super cold shifts and cold shifts that could define this type downshifts , but i don't see the table that should define what a cold/super cold shift actually is. There are for example 4-2 or 3-2, 2-1 downshift tables for normal, cold and super cold, snow etc modes, i don't see the same tables for the 8 speeds, at least not with the cold/super cold definition. Could be there though i'm not that proeficent with the Mopar transmissions just yet. I did change some of the shif points in my 6 speed to better match the 37's i have to the 3.92 gearing for 2-3-4 gears as the factory shift points are lazy in the 6 speed. As for the 8 speed i'm still learning, i have an 8 speed trans in my Durango and i'm still studying how to tune that ******* trans :)
 

Wild one

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What do you mean throw in N and apply the brakes, lol WTF....??????
If she's going down hill the transmission can be manually shifted up and/or down on command, even if you didn't go downhill, you can shift any modern trans up/down as you wish. And it'll be better if you selected the proper gear to do some rev matching and hold the truck weight with both brakes and trans when going downhill. You're not going to damage the trans because of it. If it happened i'll get rid of the truck as quickly as possible and badmouth the vehicle for having such a chitty trans everywhere i'll go. This are not the 60's anymore. Auto trans are in many many respects a lot better than the best manual trans we ever had. I still love a manul trans don't get me wrong and i know how to kung fu kick the clutch when needed as well lol, but auto trans are just damn impressive now days, especially the ZF8.

If the OP really wanted to tackle this as a programming issue, the answer could be as simple as changing the shift points with HPtuners. i've looked in the tune for both trans though in a couple of Hemi 1500's including mine, 6 and 8 speed, and i don't see a parameter to define shift points based on engine coolant or trans temp per se. I see tables in the 6 speed trans for super cold shifts and cold shifts that could define this type downshifts , but i don't see the table that should define what a cold/super cold shift actually is. There are for example 4-2 or 3-2, 2-1 downshift tables for normal, cold and super cold, snow etc modes, i don't see the same tables for the 8 speeds, at least not with the cold/super cold definition. Could be there though i'm not that proeficent with the Mopar transmissions just yet. I did change some of the shif points in my 6 speed to better match the 37's i have to the 3.92 gearing for 2-3-4 gears as the factory shift points are lazy in the 6 speed. As for the 8 speed i'm still learning, i have an 8 speed trans in my Durango and i'm still studying how to tune that ******* trans :)

His truck is still in open loop mode and you can't change that even in HP's program.It's going to add fuel no matter what when its still in open loop mode,and that's what he's ******** about as far as I can tell.Adding fuel in open/cold loop and going down a hill isn't going to work if you're expecting the tranny to stay in a higher gear like 3rd instead of 2nd and control the coast factor.He won't learn to wait a few minutes for the truck to warm up and go to closed loop mode where it's not supplying extra fuel,so unless he's willing to kick it into neutral,it's going to want to be downshifted into 2nd to control coast and scream no matter what he does.The 02's are detecting a rich mixture,so it'll want to open the throttle blade to let more air in,which is giving him the feeling of it wanting to push him down the hill unless it's shifted into 2nd and screaming.In 2nd with the rpm's up,it's using enough air to keep the 02's happy,and it'll close the throttle blade slightly and supply some engine braking factor.He's expecting it to act like a carb or an older cable operated throttle body,and it's not going to do that when it's cold.In open loop and 3rd gear he's feeling the engine surging and not supplying any braking force as it opens and closes the throttle blade ,even with his foot off the gas pedal (gotta love drive by wire throttle blades,aarrgghh,lol)to maintain the tune parameters to keep the 02's happy.BTW there's nothing you can do even with HP when it's still in open loop mode.
 
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Jebb

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I was taught to use your gears going down a hill
My 2018 1500 pushes you down the hill
When I use second gear with 321 gears the RPM goes up to 4700
The general manager of my dealership lives in the same area and leaves his in drive (he does not pay for his breaks) he tried with his truck second gear 392 gears and it ran up over 5000 RPM
He has emailed FCA but told me nothing will happen until south of the border complains
Please check to see if yours does this and complain for me as they will not fix and make this right unless you help
If I warm my truck up first it will hold in third gear down hill no brakes
Thanks in advance Bruce
I do a lot of mountain driving in my 2017 Hemi QC and HAVE noticed that the engine braking force seems considerably less than it was in my 2004 Hemi QC.

I believe the cause could be - "MDS".

When you manually downshift out of Drive it is supposed to turn off MDS. However, maybe there is something wrong in either software or hardware and when under closed throttle conditions those 4 cylinders "open up" and do not not provide engine braking force that they should.

In other words, maybe our MDS engines only provide 4 cylinders of braking force, not 8? That's what it feels like to me - very little engine drag when downshifted.

Just a possible explanation.
 
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ram1500rsm

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His truck is still in open loop mode and you can't change that even in HP's program.It's going to add fuel no matter what when its still in open loop mode,and that's what he's ******** about as far as I can tell.Adding fuel in open/cold loop and going down a hill isn't going to work if you're expecting the tranny to stay in a higher gear like 3rd instead of 2nd and control the coast factor.He won't learn to wait a few minutes for the truck to warm up and go to closed loop mode where it's not supplying extra fuel,so unless he's willing to kick it into neutral,it's going to downshift into 2nd and scream no matter what he does.He's expecting it to act like a carb,and it's not going to do that when it's cold.BTW there's nothing you can do even with HP when it's still in open loop mode.
What makes you think his truck is in open loop ? the transition from OL to CL is literally seconds after an engine starts assuming you're not cranking the engine up in Alaska winter. And yes you could change when to go from from OL and CL. I used to run my 06 GTO and 09 G8GT in OL only just cause i wanted to test SD pure only tunes without having the fuel trims interfering in my test runs. It doesn't take a lot of minutes to go from OL to CL, that wouldn't pass EPA controls. i've never seeing anything taking minutes for the switch to happen even in Ohio -12F. OL is needed to heat up the cats and for other emission routines to cycle. Can't run in OL for to long because of emissions. I think cats need about 500-600F to start burning crap so the faster they get there the best. You can watch your trims cycling very fast after an engine startup, even in the Camaro 5.7 in 1999 you were in CL within 30-40 sec in the cold, newer cars like a 2018 RAM will be a lot of faster. the parament in the 2014 is 10 sec after the ECT has reached 5F, as defined by the CL delay parameter.

Shift points could be adapted to whatever you want. 6 speed for example below, Driver select mode should the manual shifts, don't know why the factory did this but it'll auto shift up/down depending on that output shaft speed and throttle position. If you wanted to hold 2-3 just increase your output shaft rpm at say 27.5 TP%, maybe less (could it be a matter of observing what the TP% during coastdown, then using that value as reference, the axis can be changed to match whatver you want :))

The numbers you see in the tables are output shaft speed. Easy to know what engine rpm would that relate to if you do the math, Output shaft RPM X trans gear ratio
upload_2019-12-9_10-39-22.png
 
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Wild one

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What makes you think his truck is in open loop ? the transition from OL to CL is literally seconds after an engine starts assuming you're not cranking the engine up in Alaska winter. And yes you could change when to go from from OL and CL. I used to run my 06 GTO and 09 G8GT in OL only just cause i wanted to test SD pure only tunes without having the fuel trims interfering in my test runs. It doesn't take a lot of minutes minutes to go from OL to CL, that wouldn't pass EPA controls. i've never seeing anythng taking minutes for the switch to happen even in Ohio -12F. OL is needed to heat up the cats and for other emission routines to cycle. Can't run in OL for to long because of emissions. i think cats need about 500-600F to start burning crap so the faster they get there the best. You can watch your trims cycling very fast after an engine startup, even in the Camaro 5.7 in 1999 you were in CL within 30-40 sec in the cold, newer cars like a 2018 RAM will be a lot of faster. the parament in my 2014 is 10 sec after the ECT has reached 5F, as defined by the CL delay parameter.

Shift points could be adapted to whatever you want. 6 speed for example below, Driver select mode should the manual shifts, don't know why the factory did this but it'll auto shift up/down depending on that output shaft speed and throttle position. If you wanted to hold 2-3 just increase your output shaft rpm at say 27.5 TP%, maybe less (could it be a matter of observing what the TP% during coastdown, then using that value as reference, the axis can be cnaged to match whatver you want :))

The numbners you see in the tables are output shaft speed. Easy to know what engine rpm would that relate to if you do the math, Output shaft RPM X trans gear ratio
View attachment 188441

For one thing he's 67 years old with an 2018,so highly doubt he's Hp tuned or has a laptop with the HP program on it,you're assuming a lot I think,lol. Go re read his posts,he's complaining about no engine braking when it's cold and in 3rd gear going down the hill in front of his house.He's yelling about it pushing him down the hill unless it's in 2nd and screaming .In 2nd and screaming it's moving enough air to keep the 02's happy and close the throttle blade slightly,but in 3rd under less engine vaccumn past the closed throttle blade,plus when it's still thinking it's cold and it's supplying more fuel then normal,it's going to be opening and closing the throttle blade to supply the proper air to fuel ratio to keep the 02's happy,which is giving him the surging/pushing feeling going down the hill.Also he states it works the way he wants when it's warm,and supplies engine braking going down the same hill in 3rd instead of 2nd,which leads right back to it being in full closed loop mode when it's warm,and it'll keep the throttle blade closed. Read things a little better and you'll see he doesn't mention having a tune or HP,but wants everybody to yell at FCA about his problem with the way the factory has the trucks programmed on cold start.
 
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BrewCrew

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I drive up and down a mountain everyday for work. My truck (8 Speed w/392) has always downshifted. Recently i have been using the Tow/Haul setting and it seems to work even better that way...especially when going up the mountain.
 

ram1500rsm

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For one thing he's 67 years old with an 2018,so highly doubt he's Hp tuned or has a laptop with the HP program on it,you're assuming a lot I think,lol.
Go re read his posts,he's complaining about no engine braking when it's cold and in 3rd gear going down the hill in front of his house.He's yelling about it pushing him down the hill unless it's in 2nd and screaming .In 2nd and screaming it's moving enough air to keep the 02's happy and close the throttle blade slightly,but in 3rd under less engine vaccumn past the closed throttle blade,plus when it's still thinking it's cold and it's supplying more fuel then normal,it's going to be opening and closing the throttle blade to supply the proper air to fuel ratio to keep the 02's happy,which is giving him the surging/pushing feeling going down the hill.Also he states it works the way he wants when it's warm,and supplies engine braking going down the same hill in 3rd instead of 2nd,which leads right back to it being in full closed loop mode when it's warm,and it'll keep the throttle blade closed. Read things a little better and you'll see he doesn't mention having a tune or HP,but wants everybody to yell at FCA about his problem with the way the factory has the trucks programmed on cold start.
Read the things a little bit better ?

I see, you must be 66 or 68 cause you're posting the same blablishness but you're adding he's having surging/pulsation now ?. you'll be a facking star at MSLD or CrapNN.

Go back and read what i posted, i'm telling you how your OL/CL works in your truck. weren't you telling me before it takes a buch of facking minutes to enter CL and you can't modify it ?? hahahaha, you're ******* moron. and now he must be running OL bla bla bla, and because the TB is opening this or that in OL, and OL keeping O2 happy ? WTF are you talking about ??? and i'm the one who needs to read a litte bit better ? Dear facking god, another moron by nature or maybe your Metamucil got stock in your butt ?
 
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Wild one

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Read the things a little bit better ?

I see, you must be 66 or 68 cause you're posting the same blablishness but you're adding he's having surging/pulsation now ?. you'll be a facking star at MSLD or CrapNN.

Go back and read what i posted, i'm telling you how your OL/CL works in your truck. weren't you telling me before it takes a buch of facking minutes to enter CL and you can't modify it ?? hahahaha, you're ******* moron. and now he must be running OL bla bla bla, and because the TB is opening this or that in OL, and OL keeping O2 happy ? WTF are you talking about ??? and i'm the one who needs to read a litte bit better ? Dear facking god, another moron by nature or maybe your Metamucil got stock in your butt ?

I know how closed loop and open loop mode work,i too own the HP program,have for several years,lol. His truck is stock smart guy,and the 8 speed trucks don't go into full closed mode till right around 160F . Lets hear your explanation for why his truck works the way he wants when it's warm,but not the way he wants when it's cold . I'm guessing you're having a bad day by the sounds of it,lol. Now read this slowly and repeat the words to yourself.His truck is pushing him down the hill in 3rd gear when it's cold,and he has to downshift it to 2nd to get any kind of engine braking,but when the truck is warm it operates like he thinks it should and provides engine braking on that same hill in 3rd,with out needing to be downshifted all the way to 2nd where it's screaming it's guts out in his opinion. So lets hear your explanation for his cold issue .The engine coolant temp/oil temp and intake air temp sensors are telling the computer the engine is cold,so it commands more fuel,which in term means the 02 sensors are now seeing a rich condition and they in turn command more throttle opening ,thereby causing the truck to "push or surge if you like" if it's in 3rd gear,by downshifting it to 2nd the engine vaccum now pulls enough air past the throttle blade to keep the 02 sensors happy and they leave the throttle blade closed which gives him the engine braking that he wants when the engine is cold,albit the engine is revving higher then he wants though
 
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Marshall

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He's not hauling 80,000 lbs ,lol. You don't kick a semi into neutral down a 6% + grade unless you want to die,but a half ton has more then enough brakes to control it's speed down a hill especially unloaded . Which river valley are you driving into in Saskatchewan,i grew up in that province,lol.
Sask. Landing at the river north of Swift Current Yes I know he is not hauling a load, Just a comment on free wheeling. When I start mine in the garage, I have to wait a bit or it will spin the wheels when I put it in reverse, hard on the floor, with studs in my winter tires.
 

pacofortacos

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I think the biggest problem is the idle is higher until it warms up a bit.
I think mine is over 1000 rpms cold vs. 5-600 warm.
It's all driven by the EPA and Ram has to appease the EPA before anyone else.
 

ram1500rsm

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Pretty well everybody but you has figured out he doesn't want the truck to gain speed going down the hill,and we're right back to "you're not understanding",i also think you lack the ability to comprehend what you're reading,lol. I'm guessing he'd like it maintain a speed semi close to the speed limit with-out having to ride the brakes or downshift it all the way down to 2nd gear while it's cold. You're flapping your lips about closed loop mode via HP tuners,the man doesn't have HP tuners or even a tune on his truck,so how you figure that applies to his problem is beyond me,lol. Keep on talking you're getting smarter by the minute,lol.
Still waiting for you to explain his issues and why a 160 or 170 throws a code on a stock 8 speed truck.If the truck is already in full closed loop mode the thermostat shouldn't throw a code,the 02's aren't the only thing that contributes to closed loop mode as far as the truck runs,if they were,there'd be no point to using the data from the coolant temp sensor/the intake air temp or the oil temperature sensor ,the 02's would be all you'd need. See if you can do it with-out sounding like a 3rd Grader though,lol.

Hey body concentrate..., Are you calling for the audience to cheer you up or are you calling me out ?

You said you have HPT. Why don't you spin VCM and set a little histogram and a graph and show yourself where you heap reaches CL after a cold start ? then you let me know where that is. it'll take less than min to check, post the vcm log and we'll read it for the audience to understand.

2nd, you seem a little obsessed with me telling you to explain his issue and to explain to you why your chit throws an error with a 160F thermo and yet somehow your explanation comes from your in dept understanding of close loop fueling and the the richness or the leanness of the mixture , that applies to the TB to keep the o2 sensors happy while in OL, his truck was pulsing, his truck was screaming, he wants to keep things under control cold or warm yada yada yada,. You're all over the place here pal, Why do you try so hard ? Let the dude deal with FCA he seems he knows what's doing at 67 like you said.... I suggested to the dude to give tuning a try for the sake of doing something quick instead of waiting for people to raise their hands and say they had the same issue so he can take FCA to arbitration. Good luck with that OP. in the meantime you should spend some time understanding the basic of pcm management.

But I can't do much for you pal, i'm laughing hard at the disgrace of BS you keep posting again maybe pretending to appear you know a thing or two about CL or Thermostat and how the damn thermostat will throw a code bla bla bla, like i said tuning is a word You don’t seem to know much and it really shows.

Are you relating p0117 and p0128 with a 160F T throwing those on a stock 8 speed ? Why the emphasis on the 8 speed ? it has nothing to do with your damn thing reaching CL at 160F, Manufacturers abide by standards to keep the EPA happy. Do you think i won't have a p0117 or 128 with the 6 speed trans if my coolant was reading 160F with a 160F T ? or maybe per your Tooning brain i have to have an 8 speed Stock that is on top of that ? , If you don't know how to turn off CL with HPT, start by learning what's needed. Then for your Thermo issues, has it occurred to you to tune out the codes ? If you have HPT and you don't know how to do this there is not a lot i can say to you. You know what i think about you already hehe. no need to keep poking a finger in your butt when you can do that on your own everytime you keep asking me for your damn 160 Thermo issue hahahaha.
 
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OnTheTrails

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Forget about all the tech talk... yes, it might matter to some degree, but the fact is you just will have to use the brakes sometimes. No matter what you think about your gears, it's called gravity my friend and some of our trucks are pretty heavy.

I live in the heart of Colorado mountain country, and have driven mountain roads my whole life, but a lot where I live now.

You will always have to find that happy medium and you will have to use brakes. It's absolutely crazy to think you will barely use them. I drive the 2005 manual transmission Ram 2500 with a G56, and I can put it in 3rd or 4th, depending on how steep it is, and do not have to brake much. I have a Cabover Camper on my truck, and can drive Monarch Pass on Hwy 50 between Gunnison and Salida keeping the braking to a minimum, but I have to brake for crying out load. (For non-locals that's a route over a 11,300 foot pass starting at 7000' on either side.)

However, on the right downhill grade in 5th, and especially in 6th, I will brake a lot more, and I expect that.
 
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