In desperate need of 5th wheel towing advise

[Cactusmonkey]

wow I don't know where you bought your RV but not from my lot. I am very interested in all of my customers and look forward to seeing them on the road. I travel with some of my customers and would never put them in harms way.

 

[srwa]

FWIW; Have a 01 2500 Dodge diesel with a 6th. speed bought in 00 with a 15k Reese 5th. wheel hitch. Been pulling a 33 foot Discovery by Hitchicker with 3 slides since 01.

Weight of 5th. wheel loaded around 13,500 lbs. Average speed 67 1/2 mph. Highway speed limit 70 mph. Weight of truck with me and the bride in it with a full fuel tank is 7100 lbs.Why 67 1/2 mph? someone screems...cause its hasen't been registered since 07. Highway patrol see's 2 old people driving under the speed limit and all the lights working they ain't gonna stop them....right? At least not yet.

Unless I look in the mirror don't know it's back there.

 

[tron67j]

A few more things to consider. I finally loaded up my 2018 3500 and went to the scales with my 35 ft Fifth wheel. I had added up all the additional weight and thought I was good but when weighed I was 220 lbs over my rear axle rating (7,220 lbs, have a 7,000 lb axle) but good on the front axle (5080 lbs, has a 6,000 lb axle) and tires were good rated at 3,640 lbs ea. This also put me over my GVWR by 500 lbs. I then made a rack off rear of fifth wheel, relocated the generator that was in front compartment of RV to rear rack as well as the gas cans that were in bed of truck, moved the ice chest and other items from bed of truck to inside RV behind axle and weighed it again. I am now at 6860 lbs at rear and 5260 at front (still 320 lbs over GVWR of 11,800 lbs but good on both axles). I then realized my 90 gal fresh water tank (that was not filled during weighing) is located behind the rear axles of my RV. I filled the tank (adding approx 700 lbs to the trailer weight) trailer now weighed approx 15,000 lbs (truck rated to pull 24,646 lbs) but got my GVWR under the rating. Just get creative and redistribute the weight.

Additional info: 2018 Ram 3500 HO Diesel rated (by vin) Towing of 24,646 lbs and Payload of 3.860 lbs, Fifth Wheel Dry weight 12,400 lbs with hitch weight of 2,600 lbs.
when weighed had full tank of gas, myself, wife, dog and other misc in truck.

Shifting a lot of weight to behind the rear wheel of the trailer will impact the trailering characteristics and is generally not the answer to an overloaded truck. You're now going to have more opportunity to fishtail that rear end and be out of control. You should properly load the trailer just like you should properly load your truck. You need to keep all of your numbers, front and rear axle, payload, trailer axle weight, gross combined weight all within specs to be properly loaded. Anything else puts your family and others at risk. I haven't done any math on the numbers presented, just stating the basic physics of trailering here.

 

[tgrfan2]

Hello everyone! I have a 2021 ram 2500 laramie 4x4 with the 6.7 Cummins. It has a payload capacity of 1987 lbs, GAWR front 6000 lbs, GAWR REAR 6040 lbs, R rated tires, and the 5th wheel prep package. We are looking to purchase a keystone Sprinter 31MB that weights 9500 lbs dry with a pin weight of 1715 lbs. My family would roughly be 350 lbs, the hitch 250 lbs, and maybe 300 lbs in cargo. The RV dealership says that I should have no problem and to not worry about the payload numbers since occupants and cargo is already taken into account and will not count agains my total payload. I‘ve been doing my researching online and I can’t seem to find a straight answer. I contacted the dealer where I purchase the truck and RAM’s headquarters and both said they’ll have to research the information and will call me back (it’s been 4 day and no call yet). This would be my first towing experience and I’m trying to be as safe as possible. Thanks in advance.

I pulled a 37 foot Montana (pin wgt. 2600#) for my brother with his 2019 2500 similar to yours and it did a fine job. Before I got my 2018 3500 CTD 4X2, I pulled my fiver with 2760# pin weight with a 98 2500 12V with air bags for thousands of miles. I am considering adding air bags to the '18 because over the years my pin wgt. increased to 3300#!. I got used to leveling the truck and it has spoiled me.
We are also looking at the Montana 3791 RD or similar fiver to get more rear storage capacity. You might want to consider a similar floor plan if they are available in that length fiver. Fivers usually gain pin wgt. over the years.

 

[Tom Halligan]

I am having a similar issue and after extensive research decided to purchase a 3500. People will say add air bags but that does not increase payload capacity. My 5er dry weighs 9600 lbs with a GVWR of 14, 000. I normally carry 12,400. The RV notes a 10-15% pin weight and RAM recommends 15%. The tag on the door says to add all passengers and cargo weight and not to exceed this number This makes my 2500 over the rated 1990 lbs cargo as noted on the door. So yes the truck Will pull it but many will say that if in a major accident this may be a problem. It also may lead to premature failure of the Transmission

 

[ETX Ram]

You will be ok, as the 2500 is up to the task. If, you want an extra margin of safety, rear air bags with individual lines would help. I upgraded the tires on mine when I had it as the stockers were load rated at 3640. I was towing a 39’ cedar creek with pin weight right at 3100, with a payload rating of 2230ish On the 2500. My hitch was a demco slider with puck adapter, which ate up about 300#. I had Firestone red label 7500 bags with wireless compressor running nitto ridge grapplers if memory serves me 285/75-18 at 4080# rating. Right or wrong, it’s what I had, so I used it and was sure footed. I have since upgraded to a 3500drw because I got a smokin deal.

Quick question. I too will be pulling a 10,000 empty weight 5th wheel and was looking installing the Firestone 5000 unit on my 2021 2500 Laramie. Do you feel the Red Label 7500 unit would be more appropriate? Appreciate your input.
Lee

 

[Irishthreeper]

Not sure a 2500 with the Cummins is the best set up for that 5th wheel. OP is going to be way over payload. My Arctic Wolf 34’ 5W is only 1250 pin weight, 8400 dry. Even with 200-250 lbs in sliding hitch and adapters I’m far under the payload rating of 3100 lbs with my 2500 6.4. I’d recommend finding a 5W with much lighter hitch weight than that 1750.

 

[RaptorHD]

I will opine..
I have had many--many trucks, still have alot too.. Payload is not the end all number.. Trucks are routinely under rated because they know people will over load them. This is a fact! Do you think for a minute if your trucks payload is 2000lbs. and you put 2010lbs in it it will break? Nope.. The rate them for safety--sure, but then everyone drives different and when tested they run them on a safe course and call in people to test it in all situations... For those on here that roll down the road with a trailer doing over 55mph, most do 80+ that I have found don't know a friggin hill a beans what they are talking about! Besides, in most states the speed limit for a vehicle with a trailer is 10mph under the posted limit, NOT 80 mph!

A Cummins motor will pull more than you think. I have had two 2500's and a 3500 dually, all pull the weight just fine, the 3500 is just more sure footed due to the rear tires. I also only run commercial tires, I see over 100k miles on them and they are rated higher than the tires that come stock, not those ******* huge tires, be it mud tires or the all terrain not to mention the offsets that make your truck look like a skateboard, both are stupid, unless you have a 4x4 for that is street driven only I would not recommend that setup if your going to tow.. A gas engine is fine, until you start climbing hills, then the diesel really shines. You will not see the fuel efficiency from a gas engine like a diesel either so you made a good choice. I will sum it up here, a diesel is made for this, a gas engine IS NOT.. Although a gas engine performs ok, it cannot match the torque, efficiency or longevity you will get with a diesel, if they could you would see Kenworths, Peterbuilts all running the road with gas engines...

 

[Dannyb3051]

Let me go out on a limb here. I was in business for 20+ years and I purchased Ram 2500’s with Cummins to tow all the equipment used in our business. That equipment consisted of goose neck trailers rated to 20k, and the equipment on the trailers would consist of tractors, small bull dozers and 8/12k excavators. Myself and my employees were CDL licensed. The Ram 2500 with Cummins had no issue with the loads, I did however add helper springs to all trucks. When stopped by DOT inspectors they would only look at the GVWR of both the truck and trailers, they did not care about the rating of only the trucks. Bottom line, your truck, real world will handle the load you are putting on it. Gain experience and you’ll know if you need helper springs, bags or other items to help your load, drive reasonably and the Ram will handle rest.
Recommendation: get brakes on all axles.

 

[LI Guy]

Hello everyone! I have a 2021 ram 2500 laramie 4x4 with the 6.7 Cummins. It has a payload capacity of 1987 lbs, GAWR front 6000 lbs, GAWR REAR 6040 lbs, R rated tires, and the 5th wheel prep package. We are looking to purchase a keystone Sprinter 31MB that weights 9500 lbs dry with a pin weight of 1715 lbs. My family would roughly be 350 lbs, the hitch 250 lbs, and maybe 300 lbs in cargo. The RV dealership says that I should have no problem and to not worry about the payload numbers since occupants and cargo is already taken into account and will not count agains my total payload. I‘ve been doing my researching online and I can’t seem to find a straight answer. I contacted the dealer where I purchase the truck and RAM’s headquarters and both said they’ll have to research the information and will call me back (it’s been 4 day and no call yet). This would be my first towing experience and I’m trying to be as safe as possible. Thanks in advance.

I have a 2017 diesel with the same payload as yours.like many have written you will be over weight legally. I also have a similar 5th wheel an Arctic Wolf 321bh and I'm over also but it drives just fine,been to FLA. twice with it from NY with 3 teen's ..no problems braking,steering etc..12 mpg..enjoy it!

 

[Jbinramona]

Don’t know what everyone’s qualifications are. I have held a class A license since 1997. I currently drive professionally. My wife and I own a 2016 3500 dually 4wd and a 2017 43’ Jaco 5th wheel. We have a rack over the cab for our 2017 Maverick X3. We upgraded tires and wheels to g rated for the weight. The last time I scaled the rig it was 28,000 lbs. those who think gas over deisel are entitled to their opinion. Check out the full time RVers for the real story!

 

[Irishthreeper]

We can debate all day about diesels and gas, both have their advantages and disadvantages. But anybody endorsing being 50-100% over payload because it “pulls just fine” is handing out bad advice to the OP. Pulling is one thing, way overloading is a different issue. I agree that the payload ratings are conservative but it’s foolish to abuse them. If Ram is going to put a Cummins in a 2500 they need to do something to improve payload.

 

[dhay13]

I don't think anyone here is disputing that the Cummins tows better than the gas. I think we all know that. Will you be cited for being 10lbs over? Probably not. Will you be criminally charged if there is an accident and you are 10lbs over? Maybe not. But a civil case is a completely different ballgame. Someone blows through a stop sign and you hit them and someone is killed. If one expert witness says that the truck was overloaded and then the question is asked 'is the truck designed to stop in an emergency at it's max rated weight and no higher' and the expert says yes, it may not matter if you are 10lbs over or 1000lbs over. In a civil case you only need a preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt. You also don't need a unanimous decision in a civil case. That's why in many cases a defendant may win the criminal case but lose the civil case. Bye bye house. I prefer to err on the side of caution and not put myself in this situation.

Disclaimer - I am not an attorney

 

[Scottsjeeprolet]

I tow my 36’ Keystone Montana at 12000# just fine with my 2017 Cummins 2500. The exhaust brake works great too.

 

[Moose2]

Quick question. I too will be pulling a 10,000 empty weight 5th wheel and was looking installing the Firestone 5000 unit on my 2021 2500 Laramie. Do you feel the Red Label 7500 unit would be more appropriate? Appreciate your input.
Lee

I used the red label just because I like to overdo everything. More robust system, but I think the 5000 would be fine as well. I knew that the bags would stay with me when I sold the truck in the future. Those bags have since migrated to my sons 2500. All bags will help handling, when loaded, as they are outboard of the coil springs. You will love the bags, which ever ones you go with. Just make sure they are operated independently.

 

[Moose2]

If I worried about all the “what if’s”, I would never leave the house and would have tin foil covering the walls......

 

[RaptorHD]

If I worried about all the “what if’s”, I would never leave the house and would have tin foil covering the walls......

And you would always wear a mask--even when your alone in your house or car!

 

[tgrfan2]

I am having a similar issue and after extensive research decided to purchase a 3500. People will say add air bags but that does not increase payload capacity. My 5er dry weighs 9600 lbs with a GVWR of 14, 000. I normally carry 12,400. The RV notes a 10-15% pin weight and RAM recommends 15%. The tag on the door says to add all passengers and cargo weight and not to exceed this number This makes my 2500 over the rated 1990 lbs cargo as noted on the door. So yes the truck Will pull it but many will say that if in a major accident this may be a problem. It also may lead to premature failure of the Transmission

You are correct that air bags don't increase the rated capacity of the truck. However, I have had two D 2500's with air bags to tow a 30 ft travel trailer, 36 ft fiver, and 40 ft equipment trailer. The air bags do a tremendous job.
For those so concerned about all the intricacies of the DOT regulations, they should be standard equipment. They level the truck to bring the headlight beam back to specifications.

 

[andymax]

Yep, you'll probably be fine. In my mind though...the real issue is not whether the truck can handle it. The real issues are safety and liability. The OP's case puts him WAY over rated payload. If you find yourself in trouble (accident) your insurance company absolutely has the right to deny you coverage, on top of which the courts (silly and irrational as they can be) can find you grossly negligent. This could put you in both criminal and civil litigation.

Is this a stretch? Yeah, maybe. Am I being a bit too alarmist?? Sure, I'll give you that. Is it worth it? Not to me. YRMV.

As an aside - I drive a crapload of highway miles and, call me a nerd, but I pay attention to other trucks towing. I'm amazed at the amount of squat I see so often both on bumper pull and 5th wheels. I'm terrified at how many half ton trucks loaded with families, bed loaded with coolers, bikes, etc etc, and pulling a camper with either no WDH or squatting like they didnt have one due to to improper set up. I cringe when I remember that I was once one of them.

 

[2019RamInSC]

If I worried about all the “what if’s”, I would never leave the house and would have tin foil covering the walls......

Of course not Doh. The tin foil always goes in the ceiling.