Kicker Key 180.4 Amp install

[Puba08]

Looking to buy and install the kicker key amp in my ‘14 Express. Replaced all 6 speakers already with the Kicker/Mopar package. I want to keep the stock RA2 for now. I read a bunch of posts about a T harness that will simplify wiring and not have to cut the factory wires. Anybody have a link that works? Also any tips on wiring/setting up the amp? I was reading something about bi-amping.
Ty for any help,
N


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[crash68]

Maybe @Graygoose will chime in on this one, he knows a couple things about Kicker.. :-D

 

[Graygoose]

thanks @crash68


Puba, are you running it as a 4 channel amp, doors and dash, or you bi-amping it for the DSP?


Bi amp is running say channel 1 to front dash left, channel 2 to dash right,
channel 3 to driver door, channel 4 to pass door.

What this will do is the amp comes with auto DSP and time alignment, and compression. Compression , is what will pull back power as you increase the volume, and it detects distortion. Saves form blowing the speakers.
Plus the time alignment brings the vocals up on the dash center where they should be. So it automatically detects the distance of each speaker to your head, and they all hit at the exact same time.
If you go out and listen to your ruck now, put on a song and close your eyes...where is the music...at your knees....I bet you can barely hear the dash, unless you added the 4 ohm, then they might be brighter than normal.
But the vocals are at your knees.
The KEY will bring them up, center on the dash.

I used the Kicker KSC3504 in my dash, and the Mopar 6x9 midbass, bi-amped it, and now I have a center channel optimal on the dash.

So me, I suggest bi-amp.
But then you lose the rear doors, unless after you do the setup, you go back and add the factory radio to the rear speakers.

 

[Puba08]

thanks @crash68


Puba, are you running it as a 4 channel amp, doors and dash, or you bi-amping it for the DSP?


Bi amp is running say channel 1 to front dash left, channel 2 to dash right,
channel 3 to driver door, channel 4 to pass door.

What this will do is the amp comes with auto DSP and time alignment, and compression. Compression , is what will pull back power as you increase the volume, and it detects distortion. Saves form blowing the speakers.
Plus the time alignment brings the vocals up on the dash center where they should be. So it automatically detects the distance of each speaker to your head, and they all hit at the exact same time.
If you go out and listen to your ruck now, put on a song and close your eyes...where is the music...at your knees....I bet you can barely hear the dash, unless you added the 4 ohm, then they might be brighter than normal.
But the vocals are at your knees.
The KEY will bring them up, center on the dash.

I used the Kicker KSC3504 in my dash, and the Mopar 6x9 midbass, bi-amped it, and now I have a center channel optimal on the dash.

So me, I suggest bi-amp.
But then you lose the rear doors, unless after you do the setup, you go back and add the factory radio to the rear speakers.

I was open to running it in bi-amp. I have the 77kick42 package up front and the 77kick41 package in the rear doors.
So basically disconnect the rear door 6x9’s, hook up the amp to the front speakers in bi-amp, and have the amp do its thing. Once done hook up the rear 6x9’s which would be powered off the radio then?
So my biggest hurdle would be wiring the amp. Is a custom T harness suggested to make it easier? I read a couple of posts where people used them but the links to the websites did not work. I wired my sub with no issues so I think I could hook this amp up. I’m assuming there’s plenty of room behind the RA2 to install the amp?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[89grand]

I'm curious about this very thing. I have a Kicker Key in my Jeep Wrangler and like it a lot. I want to add one to the Ram. I want to do the same thing, I want to bi-amp the dash and door speakers, while leaving the rear speakers running off of the radio. I want a harness that allows the front radio outputs to connect to the Kicker Key, while leaving the rears connected. I don't want to cut the factory wiring.

Maybe one of these would work, or maybe I'll contact them and see if I'd need a custom one. It seems simply enough. Basically you have a total of 8 wires for front and rear. The harness would just bridge everything except the front outputs. Those wires would then connect to the Kicker amp, I just don't know if it needs load resistors on the now disconnected front outputs.

https://netaudio.com/store/product-.../4-amplifier-integration-2013-up-regular-cab/

 

[Puba08]

I don’t think you need resistors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Graygoose]

We just made a new harness for mine, from the KEY, and ran to the dash and doors

 

[89grand]

I've been talking to Net Audio, and they are going to make a harness to do what we want to do. I'll let you know once I get it, if it is in fact what we want.

Graygoose, do you know when the new Key amps will be available? The Key 180.4 is now called the Key 200.4. Is there anything different besides just 5 watts per channel? What about the Key 500.1? That one does sub bass tuning, as expected, but how well does it work?

 

[Graygoose]

The KEY1804 to a 200.4 just added more power, a little DSP tuning. The 1804 will go away. But I'd still use it hands down.

The 500.1 is the same principle, works on Stop Start, and tome alignment...just a great mono amp, small chassis.
I plan to try one as well!

 

[89grand]

I have a Key 180.4 bi-amped in my TJ Wrangler, in a fairly unorthodox setup, and it works great. I have no problem using one again, but I'll use the newer model if available at nearly the same price, or the 180.4 if sellers start blowing them out because of the 200.4.

 

[Graygoose]

I have a Key 180.4 bi-amped in my TJ Wrangler, in a fairly unorthodox setup, and it works great. I have no problem using one again, but I'll use the newer model if available at nearly the same price, or the 180.4 if sellers start blowing them out because of the 200.4.

Yes the 200.4 are not here yet, so you will still see the 180.4 for 199.95 or less.

 

[Jim Bowker]

Pardon my ignorance, but I still don't follow this fully. Please let me know if I'm close! Maybe my ignorance will help others. Bi-amping would be taking a 4 channel amp, and instead of two channels to the front and two to the rear, all four are going to the front and dash speakers. This allows both the dash speakers and front door speakers to be on separate channels, so that the amp can do its DSP thing. Am I right so far?

Now this is still different than a "normal" 4 channel setup where you are still using dash and front speakers but NOT in bi-amp mode. In this case, the dashes would get front left and front right channel, and the front doors would rear left and rear right, using all four channels of the radio. If bi-amped, the "front left" channel from the radio goes to the amp, but this source is used for two separate output channels on the amp. Do I have that right?

If this is the case, the fader knob on the radio would do nothing to change the relationship between front door and dash. They still have separate channels from the amp, but ultimately share the same source from the radio. Then I'd need the rear door speakers disconnected while the DSP setup is going on, but would have the option to re-add them back to the rear channels on the radio itself for fill. Or maybe leave the rear speakers disconnected but tap into one of them for a hideaway sub under the front seat or behind the rear seat (quad cab) for options that didn't lose storage.

Do I have it right?

 

[Graygoose]

Jim, correct. You can use as a normal 4 channel amp ?(but cannot bridge it) and bi-amp like I did, so it will give time alignment, a HUGE gain in sound.
It's a world of difference.

 

[azcoyote]

Interesting they are calling this bi-amping. I am used to that being two amps, one to tweets and one to woofers. The best system I ever built used PPI amps (long before they got sold to China) back in the 90's. Used dedicated amp to tweets, dedicated amp to mids, then one of their mosfet Pro amps bridged to fourth order enclosure that ate up all my trunk and had a custom port through the rear deck. Miss the good old days of car audio...

Can these little amps be used in pairs?

 

[chrisbh17]

Oh boy, the good old bright white powdercoated PPI amps?

Friend of mine had one that "died". He bought a new one and tossed the old one...I grabbed it and my dad (the EE) found a single broken solder. Fixed it and handed it back to my friend. That thing kicked ass for years after that.

I never bi-amped components because I didnt want to deal with the tweeters being overpowered or the woofers underpowered. Decent component sets come with external passive xovers anyway, so I just fed one amped signal into the passive xover, after using my active xover to feed the right freqs to the "front" amp.

I went Alpine with my amps and head unit, back when Alpine was good. MRV1000 in mono for the subs (painful!) and maybe MRV200 ? for the fronts...I forget. Havent done custom audio in a long time....*might* pick up a KEY amp for the RAM, not sure.

 

[canadiankodiak700]

Interesting they are calling this bi-amping. I am used to that being two amps, one to tweets and one to woofers. The best system I ever built used PPI amps (long before they got sold to China) back in the 90's. Used dedicated amp to tweets, dedicated amp to mids, then one of their mosfet Pro amps bridged to fourth order enclosure that ate up all my trunk and had a custom port through the rear deck. Miss the good old days of car audio...

Can these little amps be used in pairs?

This is bi amping, it's exactly the same as using 2 amps, or 3 amps for a 3 way set up, technically its an active set up. You are seperating the signal to the drivers, doesn't matter if its one of 2 physical amplifiers.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[canadiankodiak700]

Pardon my ignorance, but I still don't follow this fully. Please let me know if I'm close! Maybe my ignorance will help others. Bi-amping would be taking a 4 channel amp, and instead of two channels to the front and two to the rear, all four are going to the front and dash speakers. This allows both the dash speakers and front door speakers to be on separate channels, so that the amp can do its DSP thing. Am I right so far?

Now this is still different than a "normal" 4 channel setup where you are still using dash and front speakers but NOT in bi-amp mode. In this case, the dashes would get front left and front right channel, and the front doors would rear left and rear right, using all four channels of the radio. If bi-amped, the "front left" channel from the radio goes to the amp, but this source is used for two separate output channels on the amp. Do I have that right?

If this is the case, the fader knob on the radio would do nothing to change the relationship between front door and dash. They still have separate channels from the amp, but ultimately share the same source from the radio. Then I'd need the rear door speakers disconnected while the DSP setup is going on, but would have the option to re-add them back to the rear channels on the radio itself for fill. Or maybe leave the rear speakers disconnected but tap into one of them for a hideaway sub under the front seat or behind the rear seat (quad cab) for options that didn't lose storage.

Do I have it right?

it looks like you are understanding it.
With this set up, you do not use the rear speakers source, it's only the front left, and front right fed into the amp. The amp is set to bi-amp mode and the dsp will set the proper full active signals to each driver. So your midrange in the door will get lower frequency signal, and the tweeter/coaxial in the dash will get the high frequencies. Once the auto dsp process is complete, you can hook the rear speakers back up to the head unit age use them for rear fill if you like. Same goes for a sub woofer, hook it up after the auto dsp is completed.
You can use 2 of these amps to do front and rears, but you can only use auto dsp on one amp.

Note, that in the ram, from factory with base 6 speaker system, the front doors and the dash share a channel, so when hooking up the kicker key, you will need to run new wires from the amp to the dash speakers.

Also for you guys looking for a T Harness, you can use the dsp harness from Axxess. Part number AX-DSP-CH5
You can cut the dsp plug off and wire it directly to your high level input on amp, abc then speaker out from amp back to this harness. This has resistors built in too so no problem with the HU killing signal to speaker due to load.
Speed wire/9 wire is a great way to go between this harness abc the amp.

And to answer someone else's question, looking behind the HU, there is plenty of room to mount the small kicker key.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[chrisbh17]

I love the ATX power connector on the AX-DSP-CH5 harness lol

 

[canadiankodiak700]

Jim, correct. You can use as a normal 4 channel amp ?(but cannot bridge it) and bi-amp like I did, so it will give time alignment, a HUGE gain in sound.
It's a world of difference.

Only if the 4ch amp has bi amp mode, many don't. Unless you want to Y into the 4 inputs and manually set the cut offs.
But agree, bi-amping and going active on the fronts is the way to go. Huge improvement

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[azcoyote]

This is bi amping, it's exactly the same as using 2 amps, or 3 amps for a 3 way set up, technically its an active set up. You are seperating the signal to the drivers, doesn't matter if its one of 2 physical amplifiers.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Sort of "active"... The crossover is before the amp in the signal chain and done in software which is like active. However, it is a fixed point crossover aka non-adjustable just like passive.

Looks like the Key uses these fixed crossover points in Bi-Amp mode depending on what it detects.

• Bi-Amp Mode: You can bi-amplify component speakers, or door woofer/dash speakers. When the Bi-Amp switch is on, the amplifier will automatically detect and apply bi-amplification settings:
  • Woofers/Tweeters: 3.2kHz high pass for the tweeters (24dB/oct); 3.2kHz low pass for the woofers
  • Door Woofer/Dash Speakers: 320Hz high pass for the dash speakers (24dB/oct); 640Hz low pass for the door woofers