Need HONEST/1st HAND Towing advice

[JS4024]

Stock tires all day long no issue. You buy bigger wheels and tires now have to mess with gearing? Everyone wants a parking lot princess to do it all. Wanna tow a house behind your truck, leave it stock. Something breaks and you are left with no warranty protection.

 

[Farmboy798]

Yep, opinions happen. This isn't necessarily a 1500 Forum as you've mentioned, but a lot of members have do have 1500's, and many have 2500 and 3500. The gross weight ratings are what they are, but for many people there is some grey area as you ride the line between needing a 1500 and 2500, as an example. Some folks are happy to push the limit of a 1500, while others wouldn't dream of that and jump into a 2500 just to have a bit of headroom. You need to filter out the noise, look at the real world numbers, take the advice (or not) of some of our more seasoned TT/RV members and make your choice. Oh and usually, never take truck advice from a TT salesman!

My wife bought us a 35 foot travel trailer and it was up to me to find the rig to pull it. I now own a 2017 Ram 1500 and I have never been happier. It has all the power needed and unless you are pulling the trailer in a high wind, you don't hardly notice it behind you. The only thing that I am adding to make the ride a bit more comfortable is air bag suspension.

 

[rule18]

My wife bought us a 35 foot travel trailer and it was up to me to find the rig to pull it. I now own a 2017 Ram 1500 and I have never been happier. It has all the power needed and unless you are pulling the trailer in a high wind, you don't hardly notice it behind you. The only thing that I am adding to make the ride a bit more comfortable is air bag suspension.

Good that you've found the right truck for your needs. Great that your wife buys you presents like that!

 

[j winkelman]

Hi..I have pulled a TT with a 1500, a fifth wheel with 2500 6.4, and currently pull a fifth wheel with a 6.7 dually...the best and most relaxing to use is the diesel..there is no comparison...up and down hills r a breeze..I waited a year before going diesel and wish I would have done it from the beginning..I would also suggest fifth wheel over TT if u r going all over the country...when the 'tail wags the dog' it is no fun...I can say my fifth wheel has never budged my dually even with heavy winds

 

[jack67]

Thanks in advance and please be honest....Cheers, Rick

Sorry, no one HONEST on this forum....

 

[Earl73]

The things I will add is never look at the empty weight of a trailer. Always base your towing decision on the trailer's max GVWR and corresponding hitch weight - bumper usually about 10% and 5er about 20%.
Gearing changes can correct for big tires on acceleration but not on braking, which is much more important in my opinion.

 

[BWL]

I still remember my dad hauling a 28' terry travel trailer behind his old lincoln town car with the whole family through the rockies. Can't imagine what that thing weighed. Probably need a 5500 to haul it nowadays.

 

[KwikKurt]

Yep

 

[2003F350]

I still remember my dad hauling a 28' terry travel trailer behind his old lincoln town car with the whole family through the rockies. Can't imagine what that thing weighed. Probably need a 5500 to haul it nowadays.

Actually, given how heavy trailers have become and how light vehicles have become...I wouldn't put that behind any car on the market today. In fact, I wouldn't put it behind anything smaller than a 1500 that was built with all the towing options.

Cars used to be tanks, full frames, solid axles, and heavy steel bodies. Campers used to be basically a place to sleep with a small stove, oven, and fridge, and usually a bathroom. A 28' camper might weigh 5k.

Today's cars are ridiculously light, and so much smaller than they used to be, and they're set up for mileage. They have unibody frames that flex instead of rigid frames. Campers now usually have at least one slide, sometimes multiple, they come with stereos, tvs, microwaves, full bathrooms, and sometimes multiple cooking stations. Extra sensors galore for safety, a/c units, etc. etc. Even your ultra-light 28' campers weigh in between 6-7k with GVWs of 9-10k. Non-ultra-light 28' campers can weigh in at 8-9k empty.

Things have changed dramatically over the years. Cars and trucks are not what they once were, and neither are campers. That old Lincoln might actually struggle with today's 28' campers, while by comparison a 1500 would be enough to pull that old 28' camper with room to spare.

 

[BWL]

Actually, given how heavy trailers have become and how light vehicles have become...I wouldn't put that behind any car on the market today. In fact, I wouldn't put it behind anything smaller than a 1500 that was built with all the towing options.

Cars used to be tanks, full frames, solid axles, and heavy steel bodies. Campers used to be basically a place to sleep with a small stove, oven, and fridge, and usually a bathroom. A 28' camper might weigh 5k.

Today's cars are ridiculously light, and so much smaller than they used to be, and they're set up for mileage. They have unibody frames that flex instead of rigid frames. Campers now usually have at least one slide, sometimes multiple, they come with stereos, tvs, microwaves, full bathrooms, and sometimes multiple cooking stations. Extra sensors galore for safety, a/c units, etc. etc. Even your ultra-light 28' campers weigh in between 6-7k with GVWs of 9-10k. Non-ultra-light 28' campers can weigh in at 8-9k empty.

Things have changed dramatically over the years. Cars and trucks are not what they once were, and neither are campers. That old Lincoln might actually struggle with today's 28' campers, while by comparison a 1500 would be enough to pull that old 28' camper with room to spare.

Well it took some digging, but the lincoln dry weight was just over 4000lbs with a whopping 140hp and 245 torque. Trailer dry weight was 6400 lbs. No wonder those drives felt so long as a kid. Had to be over 12k gross between the 4 of us, all our stuff and the flats of shasta. 140hp lol

 

[SouthTexan]

Actually, given how heavy trailers have become and how light vehicles have become...I wouldn't put that behind any car on the market today. In fact, I wouldn't put it behind anything smaller than a 1500 that was built with all the towing options.

Cars used to be tanks, full frames, solid axles, and heavy steel bodies. Campers used to be basically a place to sleep with a small stove, oven, and fridge, and usually a bathroom. A 28' camper might weigh 5k.

Today's cars are ridiculously light, and so much smaller than they used to be, and they're set up for mileage. They have unibody frames that flex instead of rigid frames. Campers now usually have at least one slide, sometimes multiple, they come with stereos, tvs, microwaves, full bathrooms, and sometimes multiple cooking stations. Extra sensors galore for safety, a/c units, etc. etc. Even your ultra-light 28' campers weigh in between 6-7k with GVWs of 9-10k. Non-ultra-light 28' campers can weigh in at 8-9k empty.

Things have changed dramatically over the years. Cars and trucks are not what they once were, and neither are campers. That old Lincoln might actually struggle with today's 28' campers, while by comparison a 1500 would be enough to pull that old 28' camper with room to spare.

Most crew cab mid-sized trucks like the Ranger, Colorado/Canyon, and Tacoma weigh around 4,400 lbs with is more than what that Lincolns weighed. They also have solid axles and full frames. The diesel Grand Cherokee weighs up to 5,500 lbs, but it does not have have solid axles.

A buddy of mine in Germany has a BMW 520d (535D in the US) with a 3.0L diesel that weighs just over 4k. Overseas it is rated to tow 5k which he max's out on occasion and you will also see many people tow small RV's with cars there as well. Here, the same 535d is not rated to tow anything. Same for my 2.0L diesel BMW 328d (320d outside US) which has a tow rating of almost 4k in Europe.

I would have to say to anyone that freaks out over the thought of towing a small RV with anything less than a 1500 to never go overseas because they things like that with smaller vehicles than a 1500 all the time. I attribute it to our "helicopter parenting from the government to keep people safe at all costs even if it means giving up our rights" society, but that is just me. Maybe that is the reason why we have so many of the "you need a 3500 DRW diesel just to tow a 10k trailer" kind people.

 

[2003F350]

Most crew cab mid-sized trucks like the Ranger, Colorado/Canyon, and Tacoma weigh around 4,400 lbs with is more than what that Lincolns weighed. They also have solid axles and full frames. The diesel Grand Cherokee weighs up to 5,500 lbs, but it does not have have solid axles.

A buddy of mine in Germany has a BMW 520d (528D in the US) with a 3.0L diesel that weighs just over 4k. Overseas it is rated to tow 5k which he max's out on occasion and you will also see many people tow small RV's with cars there as well. Here, the same 528d is not rated to tow anything. Same for my 2.0L diesel BMW 328d (320d outside US) which has a tow rating of almost 4k in Europe.

I would have to say to anyone that freaks out over the thought of towing a small RV with anything less than a 1500 to never go overseas because they things like that with smaller vehicles than a 1500 all the time. I attribute it to our "helicopter parenting from the government to keep people safe at all costs even if it means giving up our rights" society, but that is just me. Maybe that is the reason why we have so many of the "you need a 3500 DRW diesel just to tow a 10k trailer" kind people.

It's more lobbied regulations to prevent sue-happy people here from suing RV and auto manufacturers. Because let's face it, people here will sue over anything.

On the flip side, if I recall, most RVs overseas are much, MUCH smaller than most RVs here. You don't need a big vehicle to pull an 18' camper that's only 6' wide.

 

[SouthTexan]

It's more lobbied regulations to prevent sue-happy people here from suing RV and auto manufacturers. Because let's face it, people here will sue over anything.

On the flip side, if I recall, most RVs overseas are much, MUCH smaller than most RVs here. You don't need a big vehicle to pull an 18' camper that's only 6' wide.

I believe that is more of an assumption/option rather than fact. There is no law stopping any manufacturer from giving any of their vehicles a tow rating or keeping people from suing them even if they did.

It is not just BMW because there many makes such as Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and so on who have higher tow ratings than the same US vehicle or they have a tow rating where there is none in the US. It is also not just Europe either. In Canada there are many vehicles that have tow ratings over there, but do not in the US.

In our culture, there is an ideology that you must have the biggest truck possible to tow any kind of weight and if you don't then it is deemed unsafe by the weight police and you are tarred and feathered. Even though millions of people around the world safely tow with much smaller tow vehicles, our safety obsessed bubbles focuses more on what could have happen than would does actually happen.

In regards to EU travel trailer, they are generally narrower to fit within their smaller lanes and shorter. However, 5k is 5k no matter what package it comes in.

 

[392DevilDog]

So. We are saying GVWR is a myth. And we can just load trucks past their ratings and all will be okay cause it is just sue happy lawyers?

I need to go camping and get away from the forums for awhile.

Just trying to help people understand the numbers and keep my family safe on the roads...but I just need to stay away from lawyers and ideology.

Sleeping better already.

 

[SouthTexan]

In certain vehicle classes, then GVWR is just a myth. The class system was made decades and many of today's vehicles have capabilities well past them in certain classes like class 1 and 2b. Class 1 has a max GVWR of 6k so this does not give you much wiggle room if you have a 4,800 lb midsize truck or SUV. The same kind of midsize trucks that tow 5-7k overseas and Canada, but are deemed "unsafe" by US consumers that feel "safe" in nothing less than a 3500. Ironically older 150/1500 trucks used to be in class 1 and the 250/2500 trucks of those days used to be in class 2a that 150/1500 are in today.

Then there is class 2b which has a max GVWR of 10k and is where most modern 250/2500 trucks are in. Back in the day, SRW 350/3500 trucks used to be in the class until they started getting bigger and heavier forcing manufacturers to put them in class 3 which only DRW trucks were at the time. In Canada, the class that these trucks are is capped out at 9,900 lbs which is why 250/2500 trucks up north have a GVWR of 9,900 lbs.

Ironically in Australia Ram 2500 diesels are rated to tow about 2-3k less than the same US version, but that is due to the type of license required to tow more than that. Giving it a higher tow rating would require anyone who purchased one to have a special commercial type license. The Australian Ram 2500 can safely tow more and is proven to do so in the US just as many foreign cars in the US are proven to safely tow more overseas.

Perception of what is or isn't safe varies from one place to the next as well as from one person to the next. For example, to some of my more liberal family members, having a gun in my house is unsafe and they react the same way some people here when someone states they are towing 10k with a 1500 or even a 2500. I, on the other hand, now how to safely and responsibly operate guns and feel even safer with one(or 20) in my house. Two different perceptions of what "safe" is.

 

[lpennock]

European tow ratings for bumper pull are higher because they us less percentage for tongue weight. Since tongue weight is what the vehicle actually carries, tow capacity increases with the lowered percentage.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[2003F350]

I believe that is more of an assumption/option rather than fact. There is no law stopping any manufacturer from giving any of their vehicles a tow rating or keeping people from suing them even if they did.

It is not just BMW because there many makes such as Toyota, Honda, Subaru, and so on who have higher tow ratings than the same US vehicle or they have a tow rating where there is none in the US. It is also not just Europe either. In Canada there are many vehicles that have tow ratings over there, but do not in the US.

In our culture, there is an ideology that you must have the biggest truck possible to tow any kind of weight and if you don't then it is deemed unsafe by the weight police and you are tarred and feathered. Even though millions of people around the world safely tow with much smaller tow vehicles, our safety obsessed bubbles focuses more on what could have happen than would does actually happen.

In regards to EU travel trailer, they are generally narrower to fit within their smaller lanes and shorter. However, 5k is 5k no matter what package it comes in.

Except...none of that is true. I can put 5k on my flatbed and most trucks will handled it better than a 5k TT. There's a lot more than weight at play here.

 

[SouthTexan]

Except...none of that is true. I can put 5k on my flatbed and most trucks will handled it better than a 5k TT. There's a lot more than weight at play here.

I can assure you it is true. I have been to many of these places and seen it with my own eyes. Europeans towing 2-5k behind their car. I even seen a motorcycle towing a car over there, and it was a police officer. Australian's towing 7k behind what we call a mid-size truck. Mexicans towing 1 or 2 vehicles behind a sedan (this happened all the time in Texas down the I-35 corridor). I am not talking about hauling weight, I am talking about towing weight.

We Americans feel that only the biggest tow rig is safe while the rest of the world says "hold my beer". No doubt that the biggest tow rig will handle any weight better, but the question is whether it is really needed to tow safely or if it because one just feels safer in it. One is a fact and the other is an opinion.

My towing/hauling experiences and my life long carrier in the medium/heavy duty truck industry spec'ing out these trucks says you don't need a 3500 to tow 5k, 10k, or even 14k. But hey, if a 3500 makes someone feel safe then by all means get one because it is their own money to do with as they wish. Just don't say that other people are unsafe towing 2-5k with a large sedan/SUV, 10k with a 1500, or 14k with a 2500. Not everyone has the same perception that you need a 3500 in order to feel safe.

 

[SouthTexan]

This all kind of reminds me of an argument/debate that two family members of mine were having several months ago. My cousin from Arizona came down to visit, and he got to talking with my uncle about travel trailers. Somehow, he brought up the fact that he lets his family stay in the travel trailer while he is towing it sometimes which is perfectly legal in Arizona(and several other states), but not in Texas. My uncle just about busted a blood vessel telling him how unsafe it is and how dare he risk the lives of his family. Where my cousin comes from, it is perfectly fine and accepted to do this while my uncle grew up in a place where it wasn't. To my uncle it was a cardinal safety sin, but to my cousin it was normal.

 

[Rick Ram-jet]

Guys, some of these posts are getting waaaay off topic, Euro tow ratings, etc, are not what I`m looking for!
Looking for 1st hand feedback to the questions/set-up noted in my original post!
Thanks, R