New I-6 info...

[Tulecreeper]

Optimize for what? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there are always competing goals in the real world. It’s your view (apparently) that a turbo GDI is extreme.

Not in my view, having owned a few. It’s hardly a Formula 1 engine. The technology is mainstream and I’ve personally owned and enjoyed several, in ordinary consumer vehicles. I’m not a Maserati or Porsche driver.

Hang onto the NA V8 as long as you wish, they’ll be around for some time. But the future is coming whether we like it or not, and drivers that get a taste of more power and better efficiency like it. And the majority don’t give much thought to complexity.

I’ve said this before, modern vehicles are more complex, and they outperform and outlast the old iron. The average fleet age has been rising for a long time.

Also, consider that Ram is hardly the innovator here. They are the last of the big 4 to bring a gas turbo pickup to our market.

Well, if I can get the same 23+ years from this RAM as I did from my 2000 Silverado 1500 4x4 that caused me very few problems for those 2+ decades I will be thrilled since that would probably assure me that this will be my last vehicle as I will be too old to drive by that time.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Optimize for what? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there are always competing goals in the real world. It’s your view (apparently) that a turbo GDI is extreme.

Not in my view, having owned a few. It’s hardly a Formula 1 engine. The technology is mainstream and I’ve personally owned and enjoyed several, in ordinary consumer vehicles. I’m not a Maserati or Porsche driver.

Hang onto the NA V8 as long as you wish, they’ll be around for some time. But the future is coming whether we like it or not, and drivers that get a taste of more power and better efficiency like it. And the majority don’t give much thought to complexity.

I’ve said this before, modern vehicles are more complex, and they outperform and outlast the old iron. The average fleet age has been rising for a long time.

Also, consider that Ram is hardly the innovator here. They are the last of the big 4 to bring a gas turbo pickup to our market.

No, it's not. Markets are specific to regions. USA, generally is long traverse and heavier loads compared to Europe, for instance. We spent years assessing market differences before creating new products. Europeans don't. 20+ years work experience.

 

[HEMIMANN]

They've made these things too expensive. Just wait until the repo's start with the 100 month mortgages, because yes, the general public is too stupid to care until they're forced to declare bankruptcy. Witness 2008.

Prices have increased much faster than wages. Combination of regulations and monopoly profit gouging. Then add some inflation to it, and we'll all be back to driving Flintstone-mobiles.

 

[pacofortacos]

Mitsubishi did have their own turbo charged Diesal engine in their little mini pick-ups in the 80's.For the day they were quick little mini trucks,i just about bought one new,after test driving it,as it was a quick little truck.

The also had a turbo in a car and even a couple mopar cars ( ie Dodge Stealth, Ply Laser, Eagle Talon), just not a New Yorker.

 

[pacofortacos]

Well, both. If you're gonna add all the cost, gizmos and software to do GDI, then do it right instead of half-a$$ed to save a few bucks from an already exorbitantly expensive design just to save a fraction of an mpg. As with all machine refinements, the last 10% cost 90%.

I've seen some members on here stating a few engines do have dual injector GDI. I haven't looked up which. Essentially, this is nothing more than an architecture that mimics diesel combustion, running lean under low load and rich under high load. The point here is that all the added cost is STILL less than all the exhaust aftertreatment the EPA made diesel engines have.

Bottom line is emission reduction and mileage improvement are costing an arm and a leg to make. And EV is hardly the answer in remote areas, cold areas, and hot areas.

Keeping an eye on Stellantis concept of rail locomotive hybrid (except add batteries). EV driven vehicle with onboard engine generator. Looking at mileage costs - engine generator is more efficient than engine drivetrain, since generators can be up to 95% efficient where a mechanical drive train is 95% efficient for each gear set driven through.

The second injector (that I am aware of) isn't a DI injector but rather a Port injection style injector and it's job is to spray fuel at certain times to keep the valves clean and cooling of the charge. This article explains it well.

Explained: Why Some Engines Have Both Port and Direct Injection

Ford currently is the dominant player with what it calls dual-fuel, high-pressure direct injection (DI) and lower-pressure port injection (PI).

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Travelin Ram]

No, it's not. Markets are specific to regions. USA, generally is long traverse and heavier loads compared to Europe, for instance. We spent years assessing market differences before creating new products. Europeans don't. 20+ years work experience.

You think the 1500 series trucks from Ford, GM, Toyota, and Ram are designed to the needs of the European market? And you believe American companies are slow and deliberate in their assessment of new products compared to the rest of the world? LOL they don’t think beyond the next quarterly results.

I don’t see much point in continuing to debate. No hard feelings, but you’re determined to find the glass is half empty, and I’m not going to change your opinions. I hope you enjoy your Hemi for a long time.

 

[Riccochet]

I'm going to wait and see on these engines. Almost every new engine/platform has teething issues for the first year or two since they obviously can't mass market test them and account for every variable.

I'm not really worried about the engine being used in a 1500. 99% of people never stress their trucks. At least not to the limit. They own a truck so they can do Lowes Depot runs or tow a ATV trailer or boat around once in a while. Things they could probably get away with owning an SUV or Honda Ridgeline, but they like the bigger truck.

Thing we need to take in to consideration is that Stellantis, GM, Ford, Toyota have been using smaller engines in their trucks in every other market for decades with good results. It's here in the U.S. and like 2-3 other markets where V8's are the most common. We're not the majority. At least not when it comes to global sales.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Actually, I don't "enjoy" the Hemi. It is a marketing engine. For personal use, the siamese cross flow valve architecture provides no benefit, and only adds cost for a larger head and cover. It also requires a shallower pushrod angle that lowers return oil flow rate to the lifters. Power is only enhanced above 5,000 rpm - it's a race motor, as it's always been since it's inception.

Ok, some guys like to race trucks. Big deal. It's not the mass market purpose. As we've said on here multiple times, the engine is better than GM's wheezy, underpowered 5.3L that I had, and doesn't pump oil from AFM stuck ring packs. This Forum has managed to subdue the poor Hemi lifter and cam lubrication through pricy maintenance. But at least it keeps the engine going.

We've discussed what was (is?) needed - a modern V8 for trucks. News reports say both Ford and GM are dedicated to that while the kluge that is Stellantis Eurocentric arrogance pulls away from it. That is the point.

 

[Riccochet]

Actually, I don't "enjoy" the Hemi. It is a marketing engine. For personal use, the siamese cross flow valve architecture provides no benefit, and only adds cost for a larger head and cover. It also requires a shallower pushrod angle that lowers return oil flow rate to the lifters. Power is only enhanced above 5,000 rpm - it's a race motor, as it's always been since it's inception.

Ok, some guys like to race trucks. Big deal. It's not the mass market purpose. As we've said on here multiple times, the engine is better than GM's wheezy, underpowered 5.3L that I had, and doesn't pump oil from AFM stuck ring packs. This Forum has managed to subdue the poor Hemi lifter and cam lubrication through pricy maintenance. But at least it keeps the engine going.

We've discussed what was (is?) needed - a modern V8 for trucks. News reports say both Ford and GM are dedicated to that while the kluge that is Stellantis Eurocentric arrogance pulls away from it. That is the point.

To be fair Stellantis is pulling away from the 5.7 and 6.2 that they slapped in dang near every production vehicle they offered. They're still keeping the 6.4 BGE in the HD trucks for the foreseeable future.

They may introduce a new V8 at some point for limited use in certain cars and light trucks, as Ford and GM currently do. Ford and GM can get away with it since the majority of their sales are of small displacement 4 bangers in almost everything they offer. Ford has 1 car with a V8, GM had 2, now 1. This keeps them from having to buy carbon credits to offset. The Hemi killed FCA with fines and having to buy credits. They were their own worst enemy by slapping those motors in everything.

Besides the fact that the current 5.7 and 6.4 platforms are old. It's time for them to go away.

I have faith they'll come out with a new V8. We just shouldn't expect to see it slapped in every vehicle in their lineup.

 

[ramffml]

This video just came out and explains what killed the hemi; it wasn't the MPG or reliability or power numbers, it was the smog rating. Due to the hemi design (so it can't be fixed in this engine), it literally has the worst smog rating by far. All the other v8's are like a 5 out of 10, the hemi 6.4 is a 1 out of 10, the 5.7 is a 3. That's why they give billions to Tesla and how Tesla manages to make money.

A modern V8 is not out of the question, it doesn't have to go in everything, just in their 1500's

Secret Gen 4 Hemi? Here's what you need to know!

I give you my thoughts on the rumors that are being circulated around Dodge secretly building a Gen 4 hemi that will likely go into the 2024 Charger as an in...

www.youtube.com

 

[JHoward]

This video just came out and explains what killed the hemi; it wasn't the MPG or reliability or power numbers, it was the smog rating. Due to the hemi design (so it can't be fixed in this engine), it literally has the worst smog rating by far. All the other v8's are like a 5 out of 10, the hemi 6.4 is a 1 out of 10, the 5.7 is a 3. That's why they give billions to Tesla and how Tesla manages to make money.

A modern V8 is not out of the question, it doesn't have to go in everything, just in their 1500's

Secret Gen 4 Hemi? Here's what you need to know!

I give you my thoughts on the rumors that are being circulated around Dodge secretly building a Gen 4 hemi that will likely go into the 2024 Charger as an in...

www.youtube.com

Hmm, here's my 2017 RAM 1500 5.7 HEMI"s "smog compliance" rating ...

 

[Wild one]

Just checked the smog rating on the wifes 6.4 Challenger,it's rated a 1,lol

 

[ramffml]

Hmm, here's my 2017 RAM 1500 5.7 HEMI"s "smog compliance" rating ...

Odd, mines a 5. Maybe the rating gets worse through the years as they make it more and more strict?

 

[turkeybird56]

Well, they don’t make them like the slant 6 anymore either. That doesn’t mean I want to ever drive one of those dogs again. They were indestructible because they made about as much power as my lawnmower.

Hey, ex-wife had a 69 Dodge Dart. All rollup, no power, slant 6. I bet U, if it hasn';t rusted in place, still running, LOL. They just ran and ran. Kinda like the old ford Straight 6 300 motor. That sucker just ran and ran. That was the good point. Always hoped for a tail wind when driving the Dart, lmao.

 

[turkeybird56]

Odd, mines a 5. Maybe the rating gets worse through the years as they make it more and more strict?

View attachment 532393

Now, there's something I can honestly say have Never worried about or checked. Is it even on the US sheets, hmmmm, gonna have to look. From my early build 2019 Bighorn window sticker. I neva pay attention to these figures, never looked, and sometimes I can get close to the MPG figures.

 

[Wild one]

Hey, ex-wife had a 69 Dodge Dart. All rollup, no power, slant 6. I bet U, if it hasn';t rusted in place, still running, LOL. They just ran and ran. Kinda like the old ford Straight 6 300 motor. That sucker just ran and ran. That was the good point. Always hoped for a tail wind when driving the Dart, lmao.

I had a 74 Dart with the mighty leaning tower of power,and as a kid i couldn't kill that engine,and i tried,as i hated that gutless/underpowered thing with a passion,lol.My brother-n-law had a 74 Duster with the old 318,and he couldn't kill that old 318 either,the body finally fell off it,and we pulled the 318 out of it,and threw it in my other BIL's derby car,and we still couldn't kill it,i have nothing but respect for the early LA based 318's as they were indestructable

 

[turkeybird56]

I had a 74 Dart with the mighty leaning tower of power,and as a kid i couldn't kill that engine,and i tried,as i hated that gutless/underpowered thing with a passion,lol.My brother-n-law had a 74 Duster with the old 318,and he couldn't kill that old 318 either,the body finally fell off it,and we pulled the 318 out of it,and threw it in my other BIL's derby car,and we still couldn't kill it,i have nothing but respect for the early LA based 318's as they were indestructable

Usually, the 318's, the intake valves would foul up and go weird if U failed to change to oil regularly. The slant 6's, I swear, they would run on only 3 quarts of oil, but talk about a sewing machine, LMAO. Now, U did have to have something in the radiator...even the legendary "brown" colored water/anti freeze, hee hee.

ADDED: And I always knew when that car started, just has that Legendary Dodge starter sound for them years.

 

[Tulecreeper]

To be fair Stellantis is pulling away from the 5.7 and 6.2 that they slapped in dang near every production vehicle they offered. They're still keeping the 6.4 BGE in the HD trucks for the foreseeable future.

They may introduce a new V8 at some point for limited use in certain cars and light trucks, as Ford and GM currently do. Ford and GM can get away with it since the majority of their sales are of small displacement 4 bangers in almost everything they offer. Ford has 1 car with a V8, GM had 2, now 1. This keeps them from having to buy carbon credits to offset. The Hemi killed FCA with fines and having to buy credits. They were their own worst enemy by slapping those motors in everything.

Besides the fact that the current 5.7 and 6.4 platforms are old. It's time for them to go away.

I have faith they'll come out with a new V8. We just shouldn't expect to see it slapped in every vehicle in their lineup.

You and I are always on the same page, but not this time. The 6.4 is a good power plant. For the 2500 HD, when packaged with the right trim it will out-pull and out-haul most other manufacturer's like-sized engines. I may not be your average truck consumer because the only reason I got the engine and trim level I did was for the towing and cargo capacity. All the other bells and whistles would have done me no good, would have cost me thousands of extra $$$, and wouldn't make the truck drive/ride any better.

I was originally trying to get a 2500 Silverado, but because they wouldn't let me order what I wanted and told me I had to take what was in stock I ended up with the RAM. In the long run I'm glad that it happened this way. I wouldn't have gotten the tow/haul capability that this one has and would have been more limited in my trailer preferences.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Odd, mines a 5. Maybe the rating gets worse through the years as they make it more and more strict?

View attachment 532393

Now, there's something I can honestly say have Never worried about or checked. Is it even on the US sheets, hmmmm, gonna have to look. From my early build 2019 Bighorn window sticker. I neva pay attention to these figures, never looked, and sometimes I can get close to the MPG figures.

View attachment 532481

My sticker has both scaled like school grades... A+ thru D. Mine is rated "B" for Smog, which I'm guessing is equivalent to a 7 or 8 out of 10. The same scale for fuel economy, except mine lists it as 'Greenhouse Gas Rating'; it's also a "B", so again maybe a 7 or 8 out of 10 equivalent.

 

[ramffml]

You and I are always on the same page, but not this time. The 6.4 is a good power plant. For the 2500 HD, when packaged with the right trim it will out-pull and out-haul most other manufacturer's like-sized engines. I may not be your average truck consumer because the only reason I got the engine and trim level I did was for the towing and cargo capacity. All the other bells and whistles would have done me no good, would have cost me thousands of extra $$$, and wouldn't make the truck drive/ride any better.

I was originally trying to get a 2500 Silverado, but because they wouldn't let me order what I wanted and told me I had to take what was in stock I ended up with the RAM. In the long run I'm glad that it happened this way. I wouldn't have gotten the tow/haul capability that this one has and would have been more limited in my trailer preferences.

I'm not so sure I'd be making the claim that the 6.4 can out pull any other 3/4 or 1 ton gasser. Maybe past engines, the 6.0 was bullet proof but not very powerful.

Today though, the 6.4 is pretty down on power vs the relatively new GM 6.6 and definitely vs the new-ish 6.8 and 7.3 from Ford.