Red Line Synthetic Oil 0W-40 - has anyone tried it in the 5.7 HEMI?

[Rod Knock]

To sumize this refrain from idling the engine for a large amount of time make sure you have a Royal Purple oil filter W/ silicone drain back valve and synthetic media, I have a SRT filter on mine, am disappointed about the paper media back to royal purple 20-820

Thank you for all the valuable information, Sir. I am currently running Purolator BOSS PBL12222 (about the same size as OEM but much better quality) filter and I'm switching to the PBL24651 (same size as SRT/RP 20-820). I prefer Purolator BOSS because I might loose ~5 microns in filtering efficiency, however, I gain really good flow. It's synthetic media, Polyester to be more specific backed by a Polycarbonate mesh. The Purolator BOSS filters are always clean, well put together, high quality. I've never seen rust or glue in any of them. I've seen rust in Royal Purple and both Rust and Glue in FRAM ULTRA/Titanium filters. Purolator keeps the filtering efficiency of the BOSS line under lock and key, however, from BITOG it seems like it does 99% at 32 microns. Royal Purple advertises 99% at 25 microns I believe them, and FRAM always advertises numbers taken from a comic book, 99% at 20 microns, and unfortunately, I don't believe them. I have no interest in the SRT filter simply because it's paper media. I pick Purolator BOSS because of build quality and cleanliness. I don't think Purolator's other filters like One or Red are worth any consideration, they're junk. Their ail filters are also nothing to write home about so to speak, but better than most no names or OEM.

I have about 2700 miles on my first run of Redline 5W30 with RP 20-820 filter.
I splurged on the Billet Tech catch can, but have read good reviews of the UPR catch can as well as some Amazon cheapies. There's a few threads around here discussing them.

Did you start using Red Line Oil after the tick started? How long ago did the tick start? After 2700 miles, did you notice any improvement?

Thanks for the catch can recommendations.

Disclaimer, I wont be saying what is right and wrong on fluid capacity, for informational purposes only I use 8 quarts. Not really out of any strategy, but the dip stick has been off a quart in mine since day one. Never had an issue with 8 in my truck.

Thank you Sir, that's good enough for me and for my calculations. I'll be doing some math now.

Was waiting to comment on this, My truck on a cold start, I get a rattle in the bottom end sounds like dry start rod knock to me and i can hear it real well from the inside of the truck, not as bad in warmer weather, my theory on this is Rod #7&8 get oil last because of the front sump oil pump being located in the front of the engine, other engines have it located in the rear of the pan, also it could be the good old short skirt piston slap, I talked to a man that rebuilds 5.7 Hemi's that says these problems exist and when he's torn down the engine there was little or no wear on the Main and rod bearings, on #7&8 but did show wear for piston Scuffing in the cylinder bore, but not significant.

If the truck has been sitting for a few days it makes a rattle I start it up again. Well, to be more accurate, the rattle was more pronounced when I was running 5W-20 in it, especially when I ran Castrol EDGE EP 5W-20 (I only did 2000 miles on that fill, then switched to 0W-40 Mobil 1). That Castrol is like 8 cSt @ 212F and much thinner at 222F. I imagine that it drains really easily back into the oil pan. Since I went to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 the rattle is barely audible. I don't know if it's a piston slap or something else. These engines are so noisy, and sorry to say this, but cheaply made. But hey, they make good power for what they are. What kind of oil are you running Sir?

To sumize this refrain from idling the engine for a large amount of time make sure you have a Royal Purple oil filter W/ silicone drain back valve and synthetic media, I have a SRT filter on mine, am disappointed about the paper media back to royal purple 20-820

Give Purolator BOSS a try, you might like it. It has really good flow and the media is Polyester backed by Polycarbonate mesh. How hard is it to install a larger than OEM filter in the 1500? I got a 2016 RAM 1500 and even the small filter is a real PITA to get in there primed with oil in it. I don't like to install dry filters, I always prime mine. Thank you.

 

[Rod Knock]

I'd use 0W40 if I lived in Alaska....but for North Carolina, I'd say you're better off with 5W30.

I hope you realize that for all intents and purposes 0W-40 is 5W-30. And the ILSAC 5W-30 is 5W-20. Heck, Castrol just reformulated their EDGE 5W-40 US, which is a 100% Group III synthetic and now it has a cSt@40C of 69 and cSt@100C of 12.8. And how much you want to bet that it will shear around 10%? Our oils are getting thinner. The reason why I use a 0W-40 is because it's the thickest 5W-30 I can buy. Take a look here: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...6E6670C802585B300470DFA/$File/WEPP-BRY7K6.pdf

[Edit]

I think that we're in real trouble at this point because we can no longer trust the viscosity numbers on the bottle or what the manufacturer puts in that bottle so we have to go hunting for PDS and MSDS reports to at least get a clue. Sad times indeed. If you asked me a year ago about 0W-40 or 5W-40 or synthetic oil groups I would have shrugged it off and told you "just use what's recommended on the oil filler cap and please leave me alone". Strange times indeed...

 

[69GWC]

Castrol EDGE 0W-40 had zero Moly. How important is Moly for the HEMI? I assume it had other friction modifiers that don't show up on a UOA/VOA.

How do you install a double filter setup on a Ram 1500?

Its not to bad to do at all.

 

[Rod Knock]

Its not to bad to do at all.

Thank you so much. I found the kit in your picture on Amazon. Can I use two RP 20-280 or similar filters with it?

Is the filtering done in serial or parallel?

Thank you!

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

@Burla, here are two more short videos. This is "current", done 1 hour ago after running Redline 5w-30 for 4000 km.

First video is "cold start". Two noises, one is a deafening "tick" though not what most people consider the "hemi tick". Second noise is more of "knock knock", little harder to hear, but definitely noticable near the end of the video when I move under the engine (again, have to click the volume icon in video to turn on sound)
https://imgur.com/BR9DBqY

This second video is after engine is hot, 20 minutes driving around. The deafening tick is still there (whatever it is), but the "knock" seems to be either gone or noticeably reduced .
https://imgur.com/a/FrurInI

Any idea as to what those sounds are?

(I also take back my original thought that Redline reduced my noise, after listening to the video again through headphones, it's still there, no difference between couple months ago and now after switching to Redline; but again, I don't think my particular tick is the "hemi tick" after all, after listening to my engine recording vs recordings of the actual hemi tick on youtube and posted in this thread on page 5).

Is your truck a 2019, It really sounds like injector tick get a stethoscope and put it on each injector and see if its the injector pulsing, Put some injector cleaner in the tank and see if some of the noise disappears, can't be manifold bolts on a 2019?

 

[ramffml]

Is your truck a 2019, It really sounds like injector tick get a stethoscope and put it on each injector and see if its the injector pulsing, Put some injector cleaner in the tank and see if some of the noise disappears, can't be manifold bolts on a 2019?

Yes it's a 2019. It's made that noise from day 1, I puchased it new, I did informally complain to dealer mechanic after several weeks of ownership but he was "too busy" to spend much time listening and didn't even want to go for a ride to hear other sounds it makes.

Think I'm going to make another trip and show him the video, definitely sounds louder in video than it does outside a busy dealership with the hood open.

 

[Rod Knock]

Yes it's a 2019. It's made that noise from day 1, I puchased it new, I did informally complain to dealer mechanic after several weeks of ownership but he was "too busy" to spend much time listening and didn't even want to go for a ride to hear other sounds it makes.

Think I'm going to make another trip and show him the video, definitely sounds louder in video than it does outside a busy dealership with the hood open.

I was at the dealer a while ago about the noise or noises you hear in my video and they ran me off by wanting something like $160 to listen to it. I said: "Bbbbbbbbbbut wataboot warranty?!" and the service advisor said that I still need to pay for diagnosis because it might not be a warranty issue. I was however their luck was that I didn't have time to fight them and I still don't, however, I will make time next month. I might not have a HEMI lifter tick, but those injectors sound like crap (or whatever it is). I told the advisor that there is YouTube, there are lawyers and there is a Lemon Law. Next time, I'm contacting the owner of this fine establishment along with FCA." Good day Sir. This is exactly what I intend to do. Now, if my engine sounded like I had a pair of elfes hammering some iron inside of my engine, I would have absolutely made time and health with it on the spot.

In your case, if you have the time and inclination to do so, fight them. Post videos on YouTube, talk about your issue, contact FCA. Ask them to bring a new truck out and compare the engine noises to yours. Film the entire thing. They need bad publicity like a bad case of hemorrhoids.

Buying super expensive high-performance oil to try and fix the unfixable is beyond unbelievable. Quieting a ticking engine with Red Line is like maintaining a bad drug habit. As soon as you're of the Red Line the tick is back, and worse, if you don't treat it you might end up with a bad motor down the road. So is running their recommended 5W-20 oil in an engine that was never designed for it. Crysler/FCA can't ask owners (and plant the occasional forum trolls on various forums to tell people to follow mfg. oil spec or MDS hell will come) to religiously run whatever 5W-20 that meets their MS-6935 minivan spec when FCA Q&A rolls the dice every time one of these motors leaves their plant. Crysler/FCA is not known as a bastion of tight tolerances and precision manufacturing. There was someone here on the forum who ran Castrol EDGE 0W-40 in his HEMI since he dumped the factory fill and never had issues with the engine. That oil has no Moly in it, by the way, it's a different formulation. I will discuss it in a future post, along with some other research I've done. Sadly, many owners follow the recommended 5W-20 recommendation blindly. I did it as well. It's because we all fear that the warranty might be void if we actually try to protect our expensive investments. It's a bunch of BS because using a better or slightly thicker oil will not void anything unless they can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the oil caused it. Just my two cents, but maybe it's high time that we stop allowing FCA to get away with this, it's disgusting.

 

[Burla]

Yeah, I'd never buy another hemi. 69gwc might have talked me into considering the new Bronco some day. I think I'd prefer buying an old one and fixing it up, time will tell.

 

[Rod Knock]

Yeah, I'd never buy another hemi. 69gwc might have talked me into considering the new Bronco some day. I think I'd prefer buying an old one and fixing it up, time will tell.

Everything is so expensive these days that it makes my head hurt, that's why I'm trying to take care of what I have as best as I can. That's why I'm here discussing how to take care and baby an engine that was manufactured using questionable, at best, quality assurance.

As far as the Moly in Lubegard is concerned, it is Molybdenum Phosphate. I believe that's par for the course for a lot of motor oils. Trinuclear moly is Organic Moly-Sulfur and is primarily found in racing oils. Infineum has some patents on it. Looking at the Lubegard VOA and understanding the chemistry a little bit, it looks like it's formulated so it doesn't react with the additive package in the motor oil that's mixed with. I theorize that it's better to mix it with motor oil that's lower on Calcium and has no Moly whatsoever, like Castrol EDGE 0W-40. I'm debating if I should go with EDGE 0W-40 and a quart of Lubegard or go with Red Line. Moly is good for the needle bearings, either to maintain them or to get them to move again if they get stuck. This is because of questionable manufacturing quality. They are supposed to be made of bearing steel, but who knows where FCA sourced them from. They also had issues with failing bearings in Hellcat superchargers a few years ago, so it's not their first rodeo. Using high Moly oils or Moly additives in HEMI engines is a bandaid to compensate for the manufacturer's greed and incompetence.

@Burla Should I post in this thread the math I'm doing about mixing oils with Lubegard and the results in additives and viscosity or should I open a new one? Thank you.

 

[Burla]

You might want to post it in any of the lubegard threads, like this one. Or the did the lubegard biotech kill your tick thread. But it's up to you.

 

[Rod Knock]

You might want to post it in any of the lubegard threads, like this one. Or the did the lubegard biotech kill your tick thread. But it's up to you.

I believe that both Lubegard and Red Line helps those that folks with ticks that are not too far gone. I believe that the motor oil also needs to be stable, and not shear down too much, like below 9 cSt at 100C, preferably stay at 11 ~ 12 or higher if you're towing throughout its useful life. I'm currently looking for some Lubegard Bio/Tech UOAs trying to see how the additive package looks when mixed. I found the Lubegard VOA, however, I'm trying to see what happens when mixed. If you have any links, please share. Thank you!

 

[Burla]

The question would be is it viscosity killing the ticks or the additives. Since thin biotech is killing ticks, clearly it is additives that is killing ticks, something every "oil guy" at boob's deny's. And yet us lil worms at ram forum just keep proving them wrong daily. Too many to count these days, too bad I didn't think about doing those polls ten years ago, we lost at least 1/2 of the guys that had done the early work with us on hemi tick and testing.

As far as shear, 5w20 especially is a shear stable formula, you can't make it shear much if you try. Some 5w30's are as well, and 10w30 is shear stable. I'm not sold that shearing viscosity is terribly important, but yes I'd agree very desirable, especially in a proper running hemi. But when we have a hemi tick situation, viscosity shearing would be secondary to additives that can stop that situation.

Roughly 1/2 of the guys to my count have their hemi tick killed 500 miles plus into a redline oil change, so just like thin biotech clearly it isn't the viscosity killing the ticks. If it was the viscosity, the tick would be killed day one in every hemi it would work in, but that is nowhere near being a fact. The science of EP additives all say it takes time and pressure and has to survive heat to work. Something I can say seams to be the answer.

 

[Burla]

If you look at boobs huge uoa section, there are some lubegard in there. I think the last one I looked at boosted moly 110ppm. I don't remember the size of the lubegard or the sump. Anyhow, kinda busy now but the answers are there.

 

[BadHemi2014]

Did you start using Red Line Oil after the tick started? How long ago did the tick start? After 2700 miles, did you notice any improvement?

Truck has had the tick since I bought it last October with 106K miles on the clock (altho it was much quieter then). It's an exfleet vehicle with crazy high idle hours.
It has definitely gotten noisier since then which is how I ended up on this forum where these guys helped me spend some $$ lol.
One of these days I'll get those broken bolts fixed to see if there's any lifter tick. She runs like a champ other than the bumbling 6spd.

 

[Burla]

Truck has had the tick since I bought it last October with 106K miles on the clock (altho it was much quieter then). It's an exfleet vehicle with crazy high idle hours.
It has definitely gotten noisier since then which is how I ended up on this forum where these guys helped me spend some $$ lol.
One of these days I'll get those broken bolts fixed to see if there's any lifter tick. She runs like a champ other than the bumbling 6spd.

The 6 speed is very fixable, just for info sakes...

 

[pacofortacos]

I don't know why people expect engines to be whisper quiet - they never have been. Maybe because of the cost of the vehicles, I don't know.

In all honesty, my 16 hemi is the quietest motor I have ever owned - as long as I don't run the OEM factory oil filter. It doesn't really care about the oil itself that much, but it is picky on filters.
And believe me I put a bunch of different oils in it. It was a bit noisier on QSUD than any other oil so far.


It's quieter than my wife's Mazda, much quieter than all of the Toyota cars I have been in, quieter than my 18 Pacifica with the 3.6.
Quieter than my 1.7, or 2.2's, or 383's or 440's or 318's or 5.2's or 5.9's, 400 Ram Air III GTO, Chevy 350, GM 3.8, that I have owned over the years.

Or maybe after thinking about it, I am just not that picky on engine noise - electric cars freak me out, they are too quiet!

 

[69GWC]

Thank you so much. I found the kit in your picture on Amazon. Can I use two RP 20-280 or similar filters with it?

Is the filtering done in serial or parallel?

Thank you!

Those filter dont have the right thread pitch for the adapter, thats why I used the ones I did.

 

[Rod Knock]

I don't know why people expect engines to be whisper quiet - they never have been. Maybe because of the cost of the vehicles, I don't know.

In all honesty, my 16 hemi is the quietest motor I have ever owned - as long as I don't run the OEM factory oil filter. It doesn't really care about the oil itself that much, but it is picky on filters.
And believe me I put a bunch of different oils in it. It was a bit noisier on QSUD than any other oil so far.


It's quieter than my wife's Mazda, much quieter than all of the Toyota cars I have been in, quieter than my 18 Pacifica with the 3.6.
Quieter than my 1.7, or 2.2's, or 383's or 440's or 318's or 5.2's or 5.9's, 400 Ram Air III GTO, Chevy 350, GM 3.8, that I have owned over the years.

Or maybe after thinking about it, I am just not that picky on engine noise - electric cars freak me out, they are too quiet!

You make some very good points and I also don't like electric cars. They're a gimmick, nothing more.

What oil filter works for you?

[Edit]

The OEM Purolator filters that they make for Mopar are ... you know ... kind of junk.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

If the truck has been sitting for a few days it makes a rattle I start it up again. Well, to be more accurate, the rattle was more pronounced when I was running 5W-20 in it, especially when I ran Castrol EDGE EP 5W-20 (I only did 2000 miles on that fill, then switched to 0W-40 Mobil 1). That Castrol is like 8 cSt @ 212F and much thinner at 222F. I imagine that it drains really easily back into the oil pan. Since I went to Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 the rattle is barely audible. I don't know if it's a piston slap or something else. These engines are so noisy, and sorry to say this, but cheaply made. But hey, they make good power for what they are. What kind of oil are you running Sir?

Yes I've been running Redline high performance full synthetic
5w-30w in summer and 0w-20w in the winter i live in the great white north, and Lube Gard bio tech 15oz.
Also are you a Chemical Engineer you have allot of Knowledge!!!

 

[pacofortacos]

You make some very good points and I also don't like electric cars. They're a gimmick, nothing more.

What oil filter works for you?

[Edit]

The OEM Purolator filters that they make for Mopar are ... you know ... kind of junk.

I have had good luck with the Royal Purple longer filter 20-500 - I think that is the number, I just threw away the box but it is the same diameter as stock but almost 2X as long.
Also have used the NAPA Platinum filter - stock size, though I wish I had bought the longer filter