Red Line Synthetic Oil 0W-40 - has anyone tried it in the 5.7 HEMI?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

Murphy Slaw

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Posts
1,561
Reaction score
2,895
Location
Southern Illinois
Ram Year
2016 Bighorn 4X4 Crew
Engine
5.7
The OEM Purolator filters that they make for Mopar are ... you know ... kind of junk.

I thought the OEM Mopar filter, MO-339 was built by Champion labs and was actually a quality filter except that it's a paper media.

I've been running the synthetic Fram XG10060.
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
794
Reaction score
1,337
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
I keep 0-40 amsoil for my glk250 diesel because it’s recommended during cold weather driving and 5-40 summer but it’s a recommended choice.I use the recommended 5-20 in my hemi but only have 7k mi. As soon as I feel it’s ready since I am tracking my oil temps and pressures before I switch to 5-30 or5-40 which I use in another turbo car I daily drive.I will confess I use Archoil in everything since so many power stroke owners solved the injector problems and backed it up with tests.Cant hurt anyway.But 4 vehicles-4 different oils,but I bend only with hard data.
 
OP
OP
Rod Knock

Rod Knock

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Posts
1,059
Reaction score
1,140
Location
NC, USA
I keep 0-40 amsoil for my glk250 diesel because it’s recommended during cold weather driving and 5-40 summer but it’s a recommended choice.I use the recommended 5-20 in my hemi but only have 7k mi. As soon as I feel it’s ready since I am tracking my oil temps and pressures before I switch to 5-30 or5-40 which I use in another turbo car I daily drive.I will confess I use Archoil in everything since so many power stroke owners solved the injector problems and backed it up with tests.Can't hurt anyway.But 4 vehicles-4 different oils,but I bend only with hard data.

I really went down the rabbit hole researching the HEMI tick and how people end up getting it.

Do you have an oil cooler in your HEMI? I don't, I know for sure. My oil temperature is not even related to my coolant temperature. Mine was built around mid-2015 for the 2016 model year. I think they started installing oil coolers only in certain RAM 1500 trucks and probably in newer ones. I talked to someone who has a 2019 RAM 1500 Sport and he has an oil cooler.

So, in my view, this is one of the many stupid things FCA did: make a blanket recommendation for 5W-20. So when you're towing 5000~7000 pounds for example you will see oil temperatures ranging from 245F to 280F. Even if you're not towing anything and you live in a hot climate, it's bad enough. At 280F a 5W-20 turns to almost nothing. Then you get oxidation, dirt, varnish and all that builds up inside the needle bearings and one day a roller seizes, and just like that you got a HEMI tick.
 

Jtblackram

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Posts
177
Reaction score
190
Location
Long Island
Ram Year
2018
Engine
5.7 Hemi
I really went down the rabbit hole researching the HEMI tick and how people end up getting it.

Do you have an oil cooler in your HEMI? I don't, I know for sure. My oil temperature is not even related to my coolant temperature. Mine was built around mid-2015 for the 2016 model year. I think they started installing oil coolers only in certain RAM 1500 trucks and probably in newer ones. I talked to someone who has a 2019 RAM 1500 Sport and he has an oil cooler.

So, in my view, this is one of the many stupid things FCA did: make a blanket recommendation for 5W-20. So when you're towing 5000~7000 pounds for example you will see oil temperatures ranging from 245F to 280F. Even if you're not towing anything and you live in a hot climate, it's bad enough. At 280F a 5W-20 turns to almost nothing. Then you get oxidation, dirt, varnish and all that builds up inside the needle bearings and one day a roller seizes, and just like that you got a HEMI tick.
I towed a 7000lbs trailer from massachusetts to long island, 5w20 in the motor, never once did my temps get over 235
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
794
Reaction score
1,337
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
I really went down the rabbit hole researching the HEMI tick and how people end up getting it.

Do you have an oil cooler in your HEMI? I don't, I know for sure. My oil temperature is not even related to my coolant temperature. Mine was built around mid-2015 for the 2016 model year. I think they started installing oil coolers only in certain RAM 1500 trucks and probably in newer ones. I talked to someone who has a 2019 RAM 1500 Sport and he has an oil cooler.

So, in my view, this is one of the many stupid things FCA did: make a blanket recommendation for 5W-20. So when you're towing 5000~7000 pounds for example you will see oil temperatures ranging from 245F to 280F. Even if you're not towing anything and you live in a hot climate, it's bad enough. At 280F a 5W-20 turns to almost nothing. Then you get oxidation, dirt, varnish and all that builds up inside the needle bearings and one day a roller seizes, and just like that you got a HEMI tick.
It’s a big part of my point is that for some reason the oil is running as hot as my turbo car,and it could benefit from a real oil cooler with a thermostatically controlled fan as well as a look at the 5-20 choice.my z06 has two oil coolers and it’s taken a load off the cooling system that is easily overwhelmed.But it needs a good plumbing job with the best lines available.
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
794
Reaction score
1,337
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
I was reading a article in hot rod 8/27/13 about oil temps and they claim 230 really is ok for synthetic if the reading is reliable,because a pound of fuel burned produces a pound of water. And they say 220 to 260,for synthetic. Cool water hot oil= HP.
 

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
14,051
Reaction score
24,366
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
I was reading a article in hot rod 8/27/13 about oil temps and they claim 230 really is ok for synthetic if the reading is reliable,because a pound of fuel burned produces a pound of water. And they say 220 to 260,for synthetic. Cool water hot oil= HP.

The oil itself is okay,but the cam and lifters maybe not so much.Hot oil means a thinner film strength protecting moving metal parts. I'd like to see a test on the cam and lifters for a 100,000 miles with oil temps at 220F and another at 180Fand see which one has the best cam/lifter life expectancy
 
OP
OP
Rod Knock

Rod Knock

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Posts
1,059
Reaction score
1,140
Location
NC, USA
I was reading a article in hot rod 8/27/13 about oil temps and they claim 230 really is ok for synthetic if the reading is reliable,because a pound of fuel burned produces a pound of water. And they say 220 to 260,for synthetic. Cool water hot oil= HP.

Motor oil is designed to work at 212F, that's the optimal temperature. Beyond that, every 10F doubles the oxidation rate. Synthetic oil is hard to define these days, so it's more of a marketing term. Schaeffer's for example blends group II vase oil with PAO, Castrol does Group III or Group III+Pao, and Group II + Group III for their GTX line, while Mobil 1 blends Pao, GTL, Group III and Poe. Esters are additives basically. No one, not even Redline uses esters outside of additives in motor oil because it makes no sense. Ester oil is usually reserved for jet engines, it's very expensive, smells like crap and if you try to run it in a car you won't make it 8 miles down the road. The bottom line is that with heat cycles over 212F motor oil has a tendency to polimerize, more or less, depending on the blend. Then you also get sludge with short tripping. You get that dirt in those rollers, they seize up and it's a done deal. Some manage to unlock those lifters with Redline, some with Lubegard. However, it's not just the Moly. In fact, the Moly might have nothing to do with it. It's the high detergents and anti wear additives in both Lubegard and Redline. However, there are two more alternatives: Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 or Castrol EDGE 0W-40. If you want to add Lubegard to one of these I would suggest adding it to the Castrol at a rate of 3 oz. per quart. Don't overdo it. Drove 1000 miles and if your tick doesn't go away, perform an oil change with a new filter and try again. You don't know how clean your motor is on the inside so give these Euro oils time to clean. Add a magnetic drain plug. The Votex DP001 works very well, use the included aluminum washer and torque it to 25 ft-lb. That's why I said to do 1000 miles, to also see if there is metal goop on the drain plug magnet.

Ill check my window sticker tomorrow, but i aint too sure. I have an 18 express with no tow package and 3.21 gears, not sure if that means anything.

Mine was built in 2015 for the 2016 model year. RAM put oil coolers in pretty randomly. It's ridiculous that my 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with a 2.4L 4 cylinder engine has an oil cooler, and the 5.7 HEMI in my RAM 1500 Big Horn doesn't. You can tell if you have an oil cooler by looking above your oil filter. If two coolant hoses go into the oil filter support then you have an oil cooler. The idiocy of RAM and FCA is unbelievable. They randomly installed those oil coolers and then they specified 5W-20 for all trucks. No wonder some people have lifter issues while others don't. High heat will make a crappy 5W-20 oil with an ILSAC GF6A designation that was designed for a Honda Civic polimerize much faster faster than a 0W-40 Euro oil full off ZDDP, detergents and dispersants that was designed to operate at sustained high heat. Oh, and the PUP SRT 0W-40 oil is a low SAPS 0W-40, so it will turn to crap almost as fast as a 5W-20. That's the reason why Redline 5W-30 works for the HEMI tick: decent viscosity to make up for wear, it can withstand sustained high heat, it has tons of anti wear additives and detergents so it will clean your HEMI.

To anyone who is struggling with this, try an Euro 0W-40 first, maybe add 21 oz. of Lubegard to it. Let's see if it works. I run Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 Euro oil from Walmart in mine with 15 oz. of Lubegard. Next change I'll go with Castrol Edge + 21 oz. Lubegard because Castrol has a heartier base oil (PAO + Group III) and it can take the dilution from Lubegard much better. I mixed 15 oz of Lubegard with 5 quarts of Castrol EDGE 0W-40 and change the oil in my 2018 Santa Fe Sport this evening. I premixed everything before pouring it in. The engine is kept clean and have been running this oil for a year now in it, so by adding Lubegard I made it even smoother. Upon startup it sounded even better, a hair quieter and smoother. Lubegard works, it's not magic, but it improves the friction of components like the valve train.

I hope this long comment can be of some help. I'm tired and maybe I should place it in its own thread.

Oh, Castrol EDGE Euro Spec doesn't use Moly, it uses Titanium as it's anti wear additive of choice. So by using Lubegard with it you avoid additive clash like oils that already have some form of Moly. So, after doing the math, it seems that I added 200ppm of Moly to my Castrol Edge 0W-40. That's about the right amount of friction modifier to make an oil even slicker. It would certainly explain why my valve train is quieter now. If you add 21 oz to 7 quarts of 0W-40 for your HEMI you will add also 200 ppm of Moly to the oil. I really recommend Castrol Edge 0W-40. I like this oil more than Mobil 1, it looks and feels like a fat oil when you pour it or put it on your fingers. Mobil 1 looks like it's thinner and not as far as Castrol if you know what I'm saying. Also, use a big oil filter like a Royal Purple 20-820.

If anyone tries this, let me know. It would be awesome for the community to make some progress with the HEMI tick.
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
794
Reaction score
1,337
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
image.jpg All of this heavy research is great and doubly proves what I’ve always believed that synthetic or conventional the old 3k changes are the best regardless of what the oil and oil filter says.And if you buy it used it probably got a 10k first break in oil change.
 

Jtblackram

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Posts
177
Reaction score
190
Location
Long Island
Ram Year
2018
Engine
5.7 Hemi
Motor oil is designed to work at 212F, that's the optimal temperature. Beyond that, every 10F doubles the oxidation rate. Synthetic oil is hard to define these days, so it's more of a marketing term. Schaeffer's for example blends group II vase oil with PAO, Castrol does Group III or Group III+Pao, and Group II + Group III for their GTX line, while Mobil 1 blends Pao, GTL, Group III and Poe. Esters are additives basically. No one, not even Redline uses esters outside of additives in motor oil because it makes no sense. Ester oil is usually reserved for jet engines, it's very expensive, smells like crap and if you try to run it in a car you won't make it 8 miles down the road. The bottom line is that with heat cycles over 212F motor oil has a tendency to polimerize, more or less, depending on the blend. Then you also get sludge with short tripping. You get that dirt in those rollers, they seize up and it's a done deal. Some manage to unlock those lifters with Redline, some with Lubegard. However, it's not just the Moly. In fact, the Moly might have nothing to do with it. It's the high detergents and anti wear additives in both Lubegard and Redline. However, there are two more alternatives: Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 or Castrol EDGE 0W-40. If you want to add Lubegard to one of these I would suggest adding it to the Castrol at a rate of 3 oz. per quart. Don't overdo it. Drove 1000 miles and if your tick doesn't go away, perform an oil change with a new filter and try again. You don't know how clean your motor is on the inside so give these Euro oils time to clean. Add a magnetic drain plug. The Votex DP001 works very well, use the included aluminum washer and torque it to 25 ft-lb. That's why I said to do 1000 miles, to also see if there is metal goop on the drain plug magnet.



Mine was built in 2015 for the 2016 model year. RAM put oil coolers in pretty randomly. It's ridiculous that my 2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with a 2.4L 4 cylinder engine has an oil cooler, and the 5.7 HEMI in my RAM 1500 Big Horn doesn't. You can tell if you have an oil cooler by looking above your oil filter. If two coolant hoses go into the oil filter support then you have an oil cooler. The idiocy of RAM and FCA is unbelievable. They randomly installed those oil coolers and then they specified 5W-20 for all trucks. No wonder some people have lifter issues while others don't. High heat will make a crappy 5W-20 oil with an ILSAC GF6A designation that was designed for a Honda Civic polimerize much faster faster than a 0W-40 Euro oil full off ZDDP, detergents and dispersants that was designed to operate at sustained high heat. Oh, and the PUP SRT 0W-40 oil is a low SAPS 0W-40, so it will turn to crap almost as fast as a 5W-20. That's the reason why Redline 5W-30 works for the HEMI tick: decent viscosity to make up for wear, it can withstand sustained high heat, it has tons of anti wear additives and detergents so it will clean your HEMI.

To anyone who is struggling with this, try an Euro 0W-40 first, maybe add 21 oz. of Lubegard to it. Let's see if it works. I run Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 Euro oil from Walmart in mine with 15 oz. of Lubegard. Next change I'll go with Castrol Edge + 21 oz. Lubegard because Castrol has a heartier base oil (PAO + Group III) and it can take the dilution from Lubegard much better. I mixed 15 oz of Lubegard with 5 quarts of Castrol EDGE 0W-40 and change the oil in my 2018 Santa Fe Sport this evening. I premixed everything before pouring it in. The engine is kept clean and have been running this oil for a year now in it, so by adding Lubegard I made it even smoother. Upon startup it sounded even better, a hair quieter and smoother. Lubegard works, it's not magic, but it improves the friction of components like the valve train.

I hope this long comment can be of some help. I'm tired and maybe I should place it in its own thread.

Oh, Castrol EDGE Euro Spec doesn't use Moly, it uses Titanium as it's anti wear additive of choice. So by using Lubegard with it you avoid additive clash like oils that already have some form of Moly. So, after doing the math, it seems that I added 200ppm of Moly to my Castrol Edge 0W-40. That's about the right amount of friction modifier to make an oil even slicker. It would certainly explain why my valve train is quieter now. If you add 21 oz to 7 quarts of 0W-40 for your HEMI you will add also 200 ppm of Moly to the oil. I really recommend Castrol Edge 0W-40. I like this oil more than Mobil 1, it looks and feels like a fat oil when you pour it or put it on your fingers. Mobil 1 looks like it's thinner and not as far as Castrol if you know what I'm saying. Also, use a big oil filter like a Royal Purple 20-820.

If anyone tries this, let me know. It would be awesome for the community to make some progress with the HEMI tick.
Looks like i have a cooler then. 2 coolant hoses right where u said they would be
 
OP
OP
Rod Knock

Rod Knock

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Posts
1,059
Reaction score
1,140
Location
NC, USA
View attachment 220575 All of this heavy research is great and doubly proves what I’ve always believed that synthetic or conventional the old 3k changes are the best regardless of what the oil and oil filter says.And if you buy it used it probably got a 10k first break in oil change.

I stopped by my Hyundai dealer today to buy some drain plug aluminum washers and saw a lady there getting her oil change done on a $37,000 2020 Santa Fe Ultimate 2.0T. She was getting the dealer special, the bottom of the barrel 5W-30. That same crud put varnish in my engine within 5000 miles. I didn't really want it, but they refused my Mobil 1 jugs and I was caught up doing some major repairs at home, so I couldn't do it myself. Anyway, since then I have not done a dealer oil change, I'm doing everything myself. They also charged me synthetic prices for is basically conventional oil. I'm amazed at the kind of some money people spend on vehicles without giving a second thought to what they put in their engines.

You're absolutely right, you can never change your motor oil too often. And the filter to go with it.
 
OP
OP
Rod Knock

Rod Knock

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Posts
1,059
Reaction score
1,140
Location
NC, USA
Looking around the Internet, it seems like 2016 RAM 1500s that had the 5.7 HEMI did not ship with an oil cooler. I wonder when FCA silently added it to the trucks.

I'm also wondering how many people with model years 2017 and newer have had HEMI tick and lifter issues?

@Burla that would be some interesting data to put together. I'm wondering if there is a correlation between lifter issues and no oil cooler along with running 5W-20 full time no matter if towing or not in those older trucks. No wonder that in the older owner manuals it said that 5W-30 can be used in the 5.7 RAM 2500 truck. FCA are a sneaky bunch, aren't they?
 

Burla

Senior Member
Military
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Posts
23,283
Reaction score
45,023
Ram Year
2010 Hemi Reg Cab 4x4
Engine
Hemi
We have evic's and we haven't seen widespread hot temps like you would expect to be an issue.
 

Dan Topp

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2019
Posts
794
Reaction score
1,337
Location
Jefferson Wisconsin
Ram Year
2019
Engine
5.7
3E44A9B1-A711-4D4F-96B0-A2693B21F586.jpeg
I stopped by my Hyundai dealer today to buy some drain plug aluminum washers and saw a lady there getting her oil change done on a $37,000 2020 Santa Fe Ultimate 2.0T. She was getting the dealer special, the bottom of the barrel 5W-30. That same crud put varnish in my engine within 5000 miles. I didn't really want it, but they refused my Mobil 1 jugs and I was caught up doing some major repairs at home, so I couldn't do it myself. Anyway, since then I have not done a dealer oil change, I'm doing everything myself. They also charged me synthetic prices for is basically conventional oil. I'm amazed at the kind of some money people spend on vehicles without giving a second thought to what they put in their engines.

You're absolutely right, you can never change your motor oil too often. And the filter to go with it.
It helps if you have a lift.and easier on your back
 
OP
OP
Rod Knock

Rod Knock

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Posts
1,059
Reaction score
1,140
Location
NC, USA
We have evic's and we haven't seen widespread hot temps like you would expect to be an issue.

I call the EVIC the 7" "the fancy dash". It makes the smaller ones look like it's from another era. I got the 7" as well.

The problem is that the oxidation rate for motor oil doubles every 10F after 212F. Different people run different oils and use their trucks for different things. So if someone is running their truck at 245F towing a mild load, 260 to 280 while going up grades and mountains, that 5W-20 will eventually polymerize and build up dirt, including inside the needle bearings of the roller lifters.

Some basic info about polymerization:

Yes, oil does certainly polymerize. When small molecules assemble to form larger molecules they do so by one of two basic types of reactions; step-growth (one molecule at a time) or chain growth (larger and faster assembly). Molecules can become reactive and look to combine for a few reasons. Heat, water / oxygen, acids, and even certain metal ions promote reactions. Oil molecules are for the most part pretty stable but if the above reasons are introduced they can become reactive and look to ‘hook-up’ and build bigger molecules which can become macromolecules.

Engine oils experience the same but add in pressure, mechanical stresses, high temps, acids (these are degradation by-products - carboxylic and nitric acids are pretty common), some fuel, and yes water (it’s a by-product of combustion). Another consideration is a nucleation point for these molecules to hang out on and continue to ‘hook-up’. That’s where stuff like soot (unspent fuel), dust, and wear debris play a role. All these make for a perfect opportunity for the oil to break down and build back up but in a different form.

I don't how FCA upgraded the lifters and what subtle changes they made from 2015 to 2020, however, I know that they silently added oil coolers. I can even order one for my truck, however, I don't want to spend several hundred dollars and work for several hours to put one in when one was supposed to be there in the first place. I'd rather keep using the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 motor oil. It's the same crap that they pulled with the cabin filter: If you have a 2016 truck you have to cut out the plastic in the dash with a box cutter or a Dremel tool to be able to install an air filter. I swear to God that they make some of the stupidest cost-cutting decisions I've ever seen. I can live with having to do the work to put in a cabin air filter, but a missing oil cooler on a pickup truck I'm supposed to use for towing? Not so much.

My little rant aside, it would be helpful to compile such data to be able to help others, not only with the HEMI tick but maybe avoided the issue altogether. Using a thicker oil with more additives in it is just a bandaid, one that I have also applied. For me, the solution to going back to 5W-20 would be to install an oil cooler. I'm fine with a thinner oil as long as I can keep it 212F.

As things stand now, towing without an oil cooler is not a good idea with 5W-20. Even with 0W-40 it's not a great idea, however, you will have more protection and a slightly thicker oil film and more detergents working when you hit 245 ~ 280F. Of course, those of you who have oil coolers can sleep better at night.

Even my el-cheapo Hyundai Santa Fe Sport with a measly 2.4L GDI engine that is the size of a small suitcase has a beefy oil cooler with two healthy coolant lines going in and out right about the oil filter. How ridiculous is that?
 

Burla

Senior Member
Military
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Posts
23,283
Reaction score
45,023
Ram Year
2010 Hemi Reg Cab 4x4
Engine
Hemi
We have an extensive uoa section here, there are no issues. The solids are formed by oil oxidation and there is no issue at all with insolubles in most hemi's. I can't solve something that doesn't exist.
 
OP
OP
Rod Knock

Rod Knock

Senior Member
Joined
May 23, 2020
Posts
1,059
Reaction score
1,140
Location
NC, USA
We have an extensive uoa section here, there are no issues. The solids are formed by oil oxidation and there is no issue at all with insolubles in most hemi's. I can't solve something that doesn't exist.

Unfortunately, polymerization will not show up on a UOA, neither was I looking for UOAs. I was wondering how many members with trucks model years 2017 and newer had issues with the HEMI tick and bad lifters. As it is I'm not exactly looking for a solution, I'm looking for possible causes for a problem. I theorized that heat due to the lack of an oil cooler might be an issue. That's all.
 
Top