Switching to 87 octane?

[62Blazer]

Im completely opposite. i LOVE Ethanol. Higher the percentage the better...

But then again im talking about running E-85 to E-90 in a 4 banger with a massive turbo. Ethanol lets me make way more power than gasoline ever would because of its resistance to pre-detonation. Only problem with E85 is that you need a whole lot more of it to make the same BANG as gasoline. So i was getting around 6-8mpg out of my 4 banger lololol

Completely agree, ethanol tends to have a higher octane rating but also has lower BTU (energy content) than gasoline.

 

[Jeff Strader]

In my years being an automotive enthusiast and working in the auto industry I have never heard high octane fuel and pollution reasons going together. To be honest that comment about states having high octane fuels because of pollution issues really doesn't make any sense. On a car tuned for 87 octane you may actually get higher emissions levels using higher octane fuel because of incomplete fuel burn. Besides, if you have the option of low or high octane at the pump and no "pollution" related requirements to put one or the other in the car how does that work. You would have to ONLY offer higher octane fuels at the pump to enforce that.

Do the research. Higher octane fuels are used in states with air quality issues. I worked in te automotive production environment for several years. Many believe higher octane fuels were created to give the customer performance enhancements. That isn’t true, that’s just a welcomed byproduct of the enhanced octane.

 

[TC]

Do the research. Higher octane fuels are used in states with air quality issues. I worked in te automotive production environment for several years. Many believe higher octane fuels were created to give the customer performance enhancements. That isn’t true, that’s just a welcomed byproduct of the enhanced octane.

We have up to 93 octane in TX....don't have any air quality issues to my knowledge so not sure what you mean by your statement. Wife's car requires minimum 93 octane. I run ethanol free 90 octane in my Ram and get better gas mileage and performance.

 

[clint440]

I have JG tunes for both 91 and 89. When I was furloughed, I filled up my pickup on 87 to save some bucks, forgetting the lowest tune I had was for 89. Never had any pinging issues but made sure to put some 91 back in the tank to make it 89ish.


Anyways, there is a significant different in power and snappiness between the two. Sure the lower octane blends are cheaper but I can tell you performance is less and the mileage was worse. So whatever I saved at the pump probably was a wash with reduced fuel economy.

 

[canadiankodiak700]

I can't stand that Ethanol garbage . Contrary to popular beliefs, that crap is hard on engines (it's highly destructive to two stroke and small engines). With that being said, with the current costs of fuel in most states, that is what the average person ends up having to get. I spend ATLEAST $20 a day just to get to and come home from my wife's work. If I were to use the 100% fuel, I'd being spending atleast $25-$30 (if not more depending on the cost at that time) a day. That doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up quickly. Not everyone is a millionaire and can afford 100% fuel.

Your information isn't very accurate. Ethanol is not harmful to two strokes and small engines. It can be harmful to the rubber and synthetic hoses and seals that are used in the engines but that is usually only an issue with older ones most new small engines all use materials that are compatible with ethanol for this exact reason. The only other issue with ethanol is that it attracts moisture, and as we all know moisture doesn't burn very well. But the ethanol itself won't actually harm the engine. It is not destructive as you say it is.

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[Cwils80]

I have JG tunes for both 91 and 89. When I was furloughed, I filled up my pickup on 87 to save some bucks, forgetting the lowest tune I had was for 89. Never had any pinging issues but made sure to put some 91 back in the tank to make it 89ish.


Anyways, there is a significant different in power and snappiness between the two. Sure the lower octane blends are cheaper but I can tell you performance is less and the mileage was worse. So whatever I saved at the pump probably was a wash with reduced fuel economy.

No kidding on the performance lol put the 87 tune on and the wife filled her up. She said it was a noticeable difference "not as beastly" was her exact words lol I drove it later in the day yesterday and definitely noticeable less performance. Not horrible but definitely interesting it's that noticeable.

 

[62Blazer]

Do the research. Higher octane fuels are used in states with air quality issues. I worked in te automotive production environment for several years. Many believe higher octane fuels were created to give the customer performance enhancements. That isn’t true, that’s just a welcomed byproduct of the enhanced octane.

This is a interesting comment and would love to see this documented source......I did search the internet and couldn't find any sources that mentioned this. However I did find articles that specifically state higher octane does not help emissions....they are just the first several I pulled up.

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/a...high-octane-gasoline-pollute-less-regular-gas

https://www.truecar.com/blog/premium-vs-regular-gas/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/smarter-living/premium-gas-worth-it-octane-summer-ethanol.html

 

[Jeff Strader]

If most people filled their cars' gas tanks with 98-octane fuel, the United States could cut annual carbon dioxide emissions by up to 35 million tons and save $6 billion a year, according to research from MIT.

Current octane ratings typically range from 87 (regular) to 93 (premium). But, the researchers surmised that if the U.S. were to adopt a new standard, making 93 regular and boosting premium to 98, it would change the way cars are manufactured, leading to more efficient vehicles designed to run on higher-octane fuel, which would result in a massively reduced carbon footprint within the next few decades.

It's not a simple equation of higher equals better. In fact, it's a fairly common misconception that shelling out extra for premium -- a splurge even with gas prices as low as they are -- is always beneficial. It doesn't clean the engine or increase mileage or performance. Car engines have their own octane numbers, meaning that they are specifically designed to run on a particular grade of fuel, usually regular. So filling with a higher grade won't help, unless your car is built for it.

Unfortunately too many people are over eager to shell out hard earned money over what they heard FROM A BUDDY and or falsely believe concerning higher octane fuels, like for instance "93 octane turns my truck into a speed demon!"...Yeah, sure!...HAHAHAHAHAHA...AND IF MY GRANNY HAD WHEELS SHE'D BE A WAGON.

The 5.7 Hemi from the factory has a horrible pollution rating based upon EPA findings. Because of this the MDS System along with a few other systems were implemented onto the vehicle to help deal with the pollution issue. Some believe the MDS system was created to improve the mileage of the vehicle. That is not true, that is simply a welcomed byproduct of the system. Myself, I personally found a gain of around 2mpg by deactivating the MDS system on my 07 RAM 1500. 7500lbs is a lot to be moving around with only 4 cylinders. When in MDS mode, the Hemi 5.7 opens the injectors to increase fuel flow. They will remain in that state until there is the requirement for the other 4 cylinders to engage. There is a LOT out there that people simply do not know about their vehicles. Too many myths and fables, false beliefs being passed along as truth.

 

[kurek]

Man I wish that ethanol hadn't become a religious topic

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Myself....I use premium gas for the better additives it usually comes with, to help keep my engine clean.



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[canadiankodiak700]

If most people filled their cars' gas tanks with 98-octane fuel, the ........

Really you had to post the exact same thing again the second time....

Fyi, it's a crock of bs with so much misconceptions in there.....

Just reading most of your posts make my brain hurt trying to figure out how you come up with such ridiculous garbage.

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[ramffml]

I

Unfortunately too many people are over eager to shell out hard earned money over what they heard FROM A BUDDY and or falsely believe concerning higher octane fuels, like for instance "93 octane turns my truck into a speed demon!"...Yeah, sure!...HAHAHAHAHAHA...AND IF MY GRANNY HAD WHEELS SHE'D BE A WAGON.

The problem is when facts (higher octane can improve performance) get used to draw the wrong conclusions. It's a FACT that my trucks runs faster on 91/93 octane then it does on 87. Not because the octane produces more power (in itself), but because the engine runs better; it doesn't retard timing, so less pinging more power. There is a limit, running 94+ probably won't help anymore than 93 does. But 93 vs 87? Not even close, which you would know if you ever tried to do any kind of towing on 87.

 

[kurek]

The problem is when facts (higher octane can improve performance) get used to draw the wrong conclusions. It's a FACT that my trucks runs faster on 91/93 octane then it does on 87. Not because the octane produces more power (in itself), but because the engine runs better; it doesn't retard timing, so less pinging more power. There is a limit, running 94+ probably won't help anymore than 93 does. But 93 vs 87? Not even close, which you would know if you ever tried to do any kind of towing on 87.

I think it's funny to see peoples' motivations on octane ratings... like my wife's car is in no way capable of taking advantage of higher octane fuel it's made for 87, low compression ratio and we don't live at sea level anyway. She runs premium every tank because she wants to for whatever reason and she makes her own money so I've got no reason to talk her out of it.

On the vehicles I have or had where 87 was recommended I never had any hesitation running 85 when I was in Utah, because there's no low elevation anywhere in the state and compressing 12psia results in dramatically lower cylinder pressure than compressing 14.7psia.

 

[Jeff Strader]

The problem is when facts (higher octane can improve performance) get used to draw the wrong conclusions. It's a FACT that my trucks runs faster on 91/93 octane then it does on 87. Not because the octane produces more power (in itself), but because the engine runs better; it doesn't retard timing, so less pinging more power. There is a limit, running 94+ probably won't help anymore than 93 does. But 93 vs 87? Not even close, which you would know if you ever tried to do any kind of towing on 87.

We pull horse trailers and hay trailers. I run 87 octane without any issues. We run into issues when I have to run 10% Ethanol fuel.......can't stand that worthless garbage. It will destroy a 2 stroke as well as most small engines. In fact, most small engine companies tells you that if you use Ethanol fuel you will void your warranty. So if it is so destructive to small engines, why is it automotive companies push it on the consumer. Ever wondered that?

 

[turkeybird56]

I've never run anything but premium/highest octane in every Mopar V8 over the almost 50 years I've driven them.
87 is for 4-bangers & lawn mowers IMO.

U know U being in NJ, U could go get the mower gas at the pump (Chevron), LMAO.

 

[turkeybird56]

Alrighty so Im closing on a house tomorrow. My truck currently is tuned to 93 octane. I have a 87 octane tune aswell (both from Jay). I want to save some money / don't exactly know the new area too well and not every station has 93 octane.

So want to ask you guys. No one possibly sees an issue with me detuning my truck to 87 and running that for a few months while I get to know the area better? Engine is stock other than a air intake.

I don't see an issue with it. Manual states 89. But research shows A LOT of people run 87. I've never put 87 in.

Asking which Octane to run is like asking which Oil/Filter to use. If truck tuned to run high octane, then there U be,. U detune to 87, OK, but I personally run 89. Here in TX, all 10% unless U go to a special place to find Ethanol free. IMHO, if U detune, run the 89 (Mid Grade). I find engine runs a lil smoother. I neva watch the MPG much, hey it is a Hemi, not a PRIUS.
I FOUND, IF U RUN E85 CAPABLE MOTOR AND run E85, U may get a bit more energy, but them vehicles burn 20-30% more fuel per tank to go same distance. WORK had an Impala with a V6 (Govt), we were mandated to run E85,. That V-6 got 15 -17 MPG on ethanol,. Regular "mogas", got 22-28. U get wat U put in, pay for, and ALSO how U drive and maintain.

All above BOIRD IMHO....

FYI: MY 19 is Stock, only thing added is an AEM Air Filter, with a Catch can coming next year, and I stay with 89. I get 13-18 MPG /Town, 18-22 Hwy, and I am a firm believer in Cruise Control on an Interstate, but everybody has a preference, just works for this BOIRD.....

 

[kurek]

I FOUND, IF U RUN E85 CAPABLE MOTOR AND run E85, U may get a bit more energy, but them vehicles burn 20-30% more fuel per tank to go same distance.

The combustion difference with ethanol vs. petroleum comes down to the presence or absence of oxygen. It's why you can run a higher compression ratio - yes, it has higher octane too but also for a given amount of energy you're stuffing less nitrogen into the combustion chamber. It's why you run a more "rich" AFR, it's why you burn more liquid fuel per distance.

You can think of a gallon of E85 like 3 quarts of petroleum and 1 quart of pure liquid oxygen, that's how they behave inside the combustion chamber. With petroleum you get all your oxygen for free through the air filter, and people spend hundreds of dollars on fancy air filters to get more oxygen into their engines.. thousands on forced induction to get more oxygen into the engine...

If you could bottle liquid oxygen at room temperature as a pour-in supercharger everyone would be eager to buy it. But when it's pre-mixed with the fuel suddenly it's controversial.

 

[62Blazer]

If most people filled their cars' gas tanks with 98-octane fuel, the United States could cut annual carbon dioxide emissions by up to 35 million tons and save $6 billion a year, according to research from MIT.

Current octane ratings typically range from 87 (regular) to 93 (premium). But, the researchers surmised that if the U.S. were to adopt a new standard, making 93 regular and boosting premium to 98, it would change the way cars are manufactured, leading to more efficient vehicles designed to run on higher-octane fuel, which would result in a massively reduced carbon footprint within the next few decades.

It's not a simple equation of higher equals better. In fact, it's a fairly common misconception that shelling out extra for premium -- a splurge even with gas prices as low as they are -- is always beneficial. It doesn't clean the engine or increase mileage or performance. Car engines have their own octane numbers, meaning that they are specifically designed to run on a particular grade of fuel, usually regular. So filling with a higher grade won't help, unless your car is built for it.

Unfortunately too many people are over eager to shell out hard earned money over what they heard FROM A BUDDY and or falsely believe concerning higher octane fuels, like for instance "93 octane turns my truck into a speed demon!"...Yeah, sure!...HAHAHAHAHAHA...AND IF MY GRANNY HAD WHEELS SHE'D BE A WAGON.

The 5.7 Hemi from the factory has a horrible pollution rating based upon EPA findings. Because of this the MDS System along with a few other systems were implemented onto the vehicle to help deal with the pollution issue. Some believe the MDS system was created to improve the mileage of the vehicle. That is not true, that is simply a welcomed byproduct of the system. Myself, I personally found a gain of around 2mpg by deactivating the MDS system on my 07 RAM 1500. 7500lbs is a lot to be moving around with only 4 cylinders. When in MDS mode, the Hemi 5.7 opens the injectors to increase fuel flow. They will remain in that state until there is the requirement for the other 4 cylinders to engage. There is a LOT out there that people simply do not know about their vehicles. Too many myths and fables, false beliefs being passed along as truth.

That article in no ways support the comment that certain states are currently mandated in some way to sell higher octane fuel because of emissions/pollution issues. This articles states that IF 98 octane fuel was available then engines could be DESIGNED to run cleaner.......so it's a hypothetical situation that doesn't currently exist. Basically the same statement that has been made......if the engine is not designed to take advantage of higher octane than it does no good.

What I always tell people is that higher octane fuel does not contain more BTU's (energy/power) than a lower octane fuel and by itself will not increase power or anything else. The extra performance comes from the higher octane fuel allowing you to design and tune the engine to run better, such as increasing the compression ratio and optimizing the ignition mapping, which gives you more power.

 

[ramffml]

I think it's funny to see peoples' motivations on octane ratings... like my wife's car is in no way capable of taking advantage of higher octane fuel it's made for 87, low compression ratio and we don't live at sea level anyway. She runs premium every tank because she wants to for whatever reason and she makes her own money so I've got no reason to talk her out of it.

On the vehicles I have or had where 87 was recommended I never had any hesitation running 85 when I was in Utah, because there's no low elevation anywhere in the state and compressing 12psia results in dramatically lower cylinder pressure than compressing 14.7psia.

I pulled my travel trailer this summer, and there was a huge difference in power and pinging depending on Octane I used. Switching from 91 to 87 was downright scary. Went up a long hill in 5th and that thing chattered soooo bad I was almost ready to pull over and crawl up. Seriously. Could be a combination of bad gas that made it even worse, but I try switch around from time to time and like clockwork, the pinging will show up under moderate - heavy loads with < 91. Or maybe it wasn't "bad gas" but just had to give the ECU time to figure out the octane changed and retard timing? But lack of power was noticable too.

Maybe I just got a bad hemi.

 

[ramffml]

We pull horse trailers and hay trailers. I run 87 octane without any issues. We run into issues when I have to run 10% Ethanol fuel.......can't stand that worthless garbage. It will destroy a 2 stroke as well as most small engines. In fact, most small engine companies tells you that if you use Ethanol fuel you will void your warranty. So if it is so destructive to small engines, why is it automotive companies push it on the consumer. Ever wondered that?

I have run ethanol (up to 10%) in my Shindiawa weedeater for probably 25 years. It has never missed a beat, haven't done a thing to the motor other than new spark plug.

As was mentioned, the problem with ethanol is that it can wreck the plumbing if that plumbing was designed before ethanol was widespread. I have yet to see evidence that it wrecks anything resembling new engines; two stroke or otherwise. What does 2 stroke have to do with it? How does that change anything?

It's just one of those statements that gets started correctly (don't use 10% ethanol in really old engines, like boat motors which are more likely to be ancient 40 years or more), and then gets interpreted and misread to mean something else.