Synthetic Oil

[chrisbh17]

Yeah you got me wondering if 5-30RL is too heavy for winter here in CT. I dont think I hear anything bad, but its not fully cold out yet either.

OTOH, 5W is 5W, so even if we used 5W-20, the cold startup should be about the same, no?

 

[Burla]

Maybe, or maybe not. We know redline 5w30 seams to be the best answer for hemi tick and dry starts. But, we don't have enough info on cold starts. We need the guys to run some different 0w20's to see if that helps their piston slap, or even makes it worse. This issue is new this year as a wide spread issue, but Corey and Kyle have been dealing with it for a few years anyhow, so it is a thing. But until we get wide spread answers, I'm not sure 5w30 reldine is the problem. Corey is the piston slap the same 0w30 and 5w30? Do you even remember the 5w20 runs in the cold? Kyle as well, but since he had the 6.4 I'm not sure he has solved it as his truck calls for 40.

 

[chrisbh17]

Also need to define "cold"....Im in the northeast, so we'll have the occasional single digits or maybe zero digit start. But overall the average lowest we'll really see is low to mid 20s, if that low. So my "cold" is probably a lot of other peoples "meh".

 

[Burla]

I think 016ramhemi (I should know his name) hemi started this years conversation at 20f, so not even that cold, but still getting piston slap with 5w30 redline. It just might be that bi annual oil changes are best practice to deal with all the issues. Have a winter and a summer oil. Unless you can find a 0w20 that can kill warm idle tick, even if you have to add something like biotech. Maybe in that case you can just use that oil all year round. Every tick is different, 5w20 ended mine. I wouldn't be afraid to experiment, maybe 0w20 with a stout formula will work. As we know many 0w20's have pao base oils, and some have higher moly then redline speaking of toyota oem, so guys back to the drawing boards.

 

[Hemi395]

Maybe, or maybe not. We know redline 5w30 seams to be the best answer for hemi tick and dry starts. But, we don't have enough info on cold starts. We need the guys to run some different 0w20's to see if that helps their piston slap, or even makes it worse. This issue is new this year as a wide spread issue, but Corey and Kyle have been dealing with it for a few years anyhow, so it is a thing. But until we get wide spread answers, I'm not sure 5w30 reldine is the problem. Corey is the piston slap the same 0w30 and 5w30? Do you even remember the 5w20 runs in the cold? Kyle as well, but since he had the 6.4 I'm not sure he has solved it as his truck calls for 40.

I'm about 1500 miles into RL 0w30. So far it's only gotten down to around 28F. I cold started it and it did seem to have a less pronounced piston slap. However the real test will be when the single digits hit as thats when it would clearly slap on cold starts. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

I think Mike had mentioned this before but I think pour point and cold flow get blurred together a lot. The pour point of an oil is literally how cold it will pour out of a container. It doesn't necessarily mean it flows WELL at that temp. For example, RL 5w30 has a pour point of -49F, RL 0w30 has a pour point of -76F. At -49F the 5w30 is going to be liquid but just barely. RL 0w30 will still flow well enough to be an effective lubricant at -49F whereas RL 5w30 probably won't.

Now with that said, 0w oils come with their own problems like more VIIs used, higher noack, and they're not as shear stable. This is why IMO they're not very well suited for hotter climates or heavy duty use.

 

[gablett]

I'm about 1500 miles into RL 0w30. So far it's only gotten down to around 28F. I cold started it and it did seem to have a less pronounced piston slap. However the real test will be when the single digits hit as thats when it would clearly slap on cold starts. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

I think Mike had mentioned this before but I think pour point and cold flow get blurred together a lot. The pour point of an oil is literally how cold it will pour out of a container. It doesn't necessarily mean it flows WELL at that temp. For example, RL 5w30 has a pour point of -49F, RL 0w30 has a pour point of -76F. At -49F the 5w30 is going to be liquid but just barely. RL 0w30 will still flow well enough to be an effective lubricant at -49F whereas RL 5w30 probably won't.

Now with that said, 0w oils come with their own problems like more VIIs used, higher noack, and they're not as shear stable. This is why IMO they're not very well suited for hotter climates or heavy duty use.

Man I wish there was just a use this oil lol. I know everyone is different. I’m in northern Michigan and we have several below zero F days throughout the year. I’ve seen plenty of double digit below zero F days. My truck gets run every day except Saturday and Sunday. I’m not confident I am skilled enough on sounds from the hemi to diagnose piston slap as this is my first ever Dodge vehicle. Not sure what to do.


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[Burla]

I'm about 1500 miles into RL 0w30. So far it's only gotten down to around 28F. I cold started it and it did seem to have a less pronounced piston slap. However the real test will be when the single digits hit as thats when it would clearly slap on cold starts. I'll let you guys know how that goes.

I think Mike had mentioned this before but I think pour point and cold flow get blurred together a lot. The pour point of an oil is literally how cold it will pour out of a container. It doesn't necessarily mean it flows WELL at that temp. For example, RL 5w30 has a pour point of -49F, RL 0w30 has a pour point of -76F. At -49F the 5w30 is going to be liquid but just barely. RL 0w30 will still flow well enough to be an effective lubricant at -49F whereas RL 5w30 probably won't.

Now with that said, 0w oils come with their own problems like more VIIs used, higher noack, and they're not as shear stable. This is why IMO they're not very well suited for hotter climates or heavy duty use.

Thick oil is thick oil, if you were expecting 5w30 redline to be thin at start up you should change those expectations. I'm not saying you in particular but you know what I'm say'n. It would be similar to a 40 weight in the cold, but yes of course will pour down to lower temps then group 3 stuff. Thicker oils are thicker all through the temperature spectrum, not just operating temps. In the cold the difference can be huge between a thick 30 weight and a thin 20 weight. Like those oils are pretty similar at cSt, but in the cold the difference can be 250-500 visc. So it was disappointing to hear this issue came up, but the science sure backs it up. If there is an answer for this cold piston slap, I personally think it will be 0w20. If 0w30 works, then winner winner, it is like the best of both worlds.

Here's a question, is that 180 t stat keeping oil temps down? If it is, then a simple t stat can turn 20 weight into a 30 weight in the crank case. Something else to consider.

 

[crackerjack1957]

To bad this is not available in the US.
https://www.ardeca-lubricants.nl/ws2-e-engine-oil-upgrade-en.html?id=71417231

 

[Burla]

Man I wish there was just a use this oil lol.

Then we would have nothing to talk about, what's a mattu.

Ram hemi's are advanced ownership, gotta soak up and discuss and fix all the stuff.

 

[Burla]

To bad this is not available in the US.
https://www.ardeca-lubricants.nl/ws2-e-engine-oil-upgrade-en.html?id=71417231

almost sounds similar to biotech, both ester based, one has moly one uses tungsten, one uses boron and one uses phos. But yeah, it bugs me some of these are widespread over there and not here.

 

[Hemi395]

Thick oil is thick oil, if you were expecting 5w30 redline to be thin at start up you should change those expectations. I'm not saying you in particular but you know what I'm say'n. It would be similar to a 40 weight in the cold, but yes of course will pour down to lower temps then group 3 stuff. Thicker oils are thicker all through the temperature spectrum, not just operating temps. In the cold the difference can be huge between a thick 30 weight and a thin 20 weight. Like those oils are pretty similar at cSt, but in the cold the difference can be 250-500 visc. So it was disappointing to hear this issue came up, but the science sure backs it up. If there is an answer for this cold piston slap, I personally think it will be 0w20. If 0w30 works, then winner winner, it is like the best of both worlds.

Here's a question, is that 180 t stat keeping oil temps down? If it is, then a simple t stat can turn 20 weight into a 30 weight in the crank case. Something else to consider.

The 180 tstat does lower oil temps but its very dependent on engine load. Normal driving in the winter my oil temp will be around 195-200. In the summer it will hover around 210-215 for normal driving. With the 203 tstat under normal driving conditions it would be about the same, maybe +5 degrees to those numbers.

While towing however I've seen it creep up in the 240s which is about what it would get to with the stock 203 tstat.

 

[U&A]

Man I wish there was just a use this oil lol. I know everyone is different. I’m in northern Michigan and we have several below zero F days throughout the year. I’ve seen plenty of double digit below zero F days. My truck gets run every day except Saturday and Sunday. I’m not confident I am skilled enough on sounds from the hemi to diagnose piston slap as this is my first ever Dodge vehicle. Not sure what to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

If i lived in clare (im nit to fare from ya) with a 5.7 i would have absolutely zero worries about running RL 5w30. But if it makes you feel better just run their 0w30. The VII’s will keep that oil very fluid in that climate.



Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[U&A]

To bad this is not available in the US.
https://www.ardeca-lubricants.nl/ws2-e-engine-oil-upgrade-en.html?id=71417231

It is only for V4 engines[emoji1787]


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[Burla]

Thick oil in the cold graph, I guess I should put in other thread as well.

 

[Burla]

you can see if you can get the truck running at 200f, the 5w20 turns into a 5w30 as far as film strength goes.

 

[gablett]

If i lived in clare (im nit to fare from ya) with a 5.7 i would have absolutely zero worries about running RL 5w30. But if it makes you feel better just run their 0w30. The VII’s will keep that oil very fluid in that climate.



Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

Thanks for reaffirming my gut feeling.


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[Burla]

Hey, maybe we should run gear oil in engine, lol. 75w80 is way thinner then 0w20?

 

[chrisbh17]

Thick oil in the cold graph, I guess I should put in other thread as well.

I'm confused. If the 5w in 5w20, 5w30, etc represents the cold temp viscosity, why is that number different between oils with the same cold weight rating?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Burla]

I guess now we have a real con to the 5w30 versus 5w20 weight debate.

 

[Burla]

I'm confused. If the 5w in 5w20, 5w30, etc represents the cold temp viscosity, why is that number different between oils with the same cold weight rating?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Maybe it's late but I'm not understanding the question. But, the weight of oil is always thicker probably until flash point to freeze point. When it gets cold, the weight margin increases. I don't know why the oil industry does what it does, as far as recommended serviceable temps, because I'm like you, I see 5w20 would likely be thinner then 0w30 at most cold temps. I guess their suggestions are boxed in by the manu's suggested weight to protect the engine, dunno for sure.