Synthetic Oil

[HEMIMANN]

I don't know anymore.
I read dexos long ago, all I remember is it was mandating synthetic of some minimum saturation, probably Group III, and detergent level.
Well, that's all PUP is, right? GTL Group III+ with a slug of detergent.
Being SP now means the detergent mix changed and viscosity dropped within SAE 100C vis grade.
Since I'm using 5W-30 and not an xW-20, I'm not personally concerned.

AFAIK Shell still has a big U.S. presence in Houston so don't know why they didn't get dexos.

 

[HEMIMANN]

In the video I'm glad Lake Speed mentioned ester oil is required to add to all PAO Group IV base oil to hold additives in solution.

Exactly what I've been trying to preach on here. The only question is what effect adding MORE ester than minimally required to dissolve additives has on engine performance. i.e. - 'race oil' or 'jet oil'

 

[Burla]

In the video I'm glad Lake Speed mentioned ester oil is required to add to all PAO Group IV base oil to hold additives in solution.

Exactly what I've been trying to preach on here. The only question is what effect adding MORE ester than minimally required to dissolve additives has on engine performance. i.e. - 'race oil' or 'jet oil'

or AN? You think m1 used esters to balance FS? Or AN?

 

[HEMIMANN]

or AN?

dunno - beyond my retirement pay grade. He only mentioned ester.

Here's his presentation chart that really gets me, how much weaker ISLAC GF-6 additive is than GM Dexos 1 Gen 3. The big miss is oxidation stability - ESPECIALLY important for turbocharged engines!

But - like he says, lack of certification doesn't mean they don't meet it - it just says they won't pay for the license. Most infamous of all is Amsoil, who shows test results far exceeding most specs. I just don't know about PUP - Shell is European Corporation HQ in Holland. Do they really no longer care about the U.S. lube market?

 

[HEMIMANN]

GM Dexos 1 Gen 3 Certified List - Pennzoil Platinum listed, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum isn't. wtf?

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[HEMIMANN]

GM Dexos 1 Gen 2 vs. GM Dexos 1 Gen 3 - Costco lists Gen 2, no Gen 3. Gen 3 just looks like a additive recipe tweak, to me. It allows a little more wear but reduces high temp deposits. From one of the four big additive packagers, Lubrizol:

 

[Burla]

GM Dexos 1 Gen 3 Certified List - Pennzoil Platinum listed, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum isn't. wtf?

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good find, so I hadn't seen the donut on the bottle, hopefully we can find one, this is one donut you do want imo. I stand corrected. Brian I think Pennzoil doesn't sell enough PUP to pay for the donut, most places straight stop selling pup.

 

[Burla]

OR, maybe they consider PUP as part of platinum line, yeah that's it, lol Burla needs to go hide under a rock now.

 

[Sherman Bird]

or AN? You think m1 used esters to balance FS? Or AN?

They do not.

 

[Burla]

GM Dexos 1 Gen 2 vs. GM Dexos 1 Gen 3 - Costco lists Gen 2, no Gen 3. Gen 3 just looks like a additive recipe tweak, to me. It allows a little more wear but reduces high temp deposits. From one of the four big additive packagers, Lubrizol:

View attachment 551257

But dexos still means that high standard. Perhaps they will update at one point, but especially for older engines dexos 2 is gonna be great oil imo. For the rav 4 or even a hemi this will do, if we are grading that oil against the field of group 3's. How old is dex 3 anyhow?

 

[Burla]

Just like most things, you see if you have a di turbo you want to use the latest dexos, but absent that engine or some other modern engine, dexos 2 will be good. With the new hurricane, yes dexos 3 is the direction for you.

• Dexos 1 Gen 1
  This was the first generation of Dexos 1 oil, developed in 2007 and introduced in 2009. It was used in most Chevrolet gasoline engines in the US until around 2015.
  
  
  
• Dexos 1 Gen 2
  This generation was introduced in 2015 and was mandatory for factory and service fills for GM models from 2017 and 2018 onwards. It was fully backwards compatible with all pre-2018 GM vehicles.
  
  
  
• Dexos 1 Gen 3
  This generation replaced Dexos 1 Gen 2 in September 2021. It has tighter performance standards for oxidation resistance, sludge control, piston cleanliness, and more. It also has higher standards for turbocharger protection and fuel efficiency. Dexos 1 Gen 3 is backwards compatible with Dexos 1 Gen 2.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yeah, I was poking around and found min. wear HTHS for Dexos 1 Gen 2 is 3.5 mPa, Dexos 1 Gen 3 is 2.9 mPa

So they put in a bunch more detergent in Gen 3 for the dirty, single injector GDI engines for higher wear. I guess I'd agree with that, seeing as how sooty the single injector GDI engines are. If I had a GM HD truck I'd be conflicted with a GDI 6.6L V8 engine towing heavy loads.

But since we're driving go karts, I'm thinking of switching. I have no idea what Shell is doing. And they aren't saying anything that I can see. At any rate, since we're changing these kinds of motors @ 5k OCI anyway, looks to me like Kirkland is a good way to go?

Another sea change in engine oil thanks to never-ending EPA fiddling. I thought utopia back in 2014 was PUP.

 

[Burla]

Max not Min, and lets be clear they didn't have to make it thinner to make it cleaner, that was a choice based on a goal. Gen 2 was just fine, and perhaps even better for hemis because it is thicker? I can justify a hemi owner actually hunting for gen 2 instead of gen 3.

store up on Kirkland gen 2 while you can, I know I will next sale. just did a costco run, damm

 

[HEMIMANN]

Max not Min, and lets be clear they didn't have to make it thinner to make it cleaner, that was a choice based on a goal. Gen 2 was just fine, and perhaps even better for hemis because it is thicker? I can justify a hemi owner actually hunting for gen 2 instead of gen 3.

store up on Kirkland gen 2 while you can, I know I will next sale. just did a costco run, damm

Not for Hemi - for other cars. Thought sure HTHS was min. Spec.

 

[Burla]

on sale 3 more days, gonna have to talk the wife into a road trip tomorrow. Sick look at these prices, for a 12 case 39 bucks wth? 4 - 5qrt for 63, lol. je s u s. 3 bucks 15 cents per quart for if you believe oil geeks just as good as any oil on the shelf.

 

[Burla]

Not for Hemi - for other cars. Thought sure HTHS was min. Spec.

dexos = 20 and 30 weights, that has to be max. Maybe we find it.

 

[Burla]

We both right, 3,5 min is diesel spec...
For Dexos 1 (gasoline spec), the HTHS requirement is:

XW-20 - min. 2,6 cP
XW-30 - min. 2,9 cP

For Dexos 2 (diesel spec), the HTHS requirement is:

min. 3,5 cP for all viscosity grades.\

I guess I should stop being lazy and call dexos 1 gen 2 instead of gen 2. So for gas of course we are on dexos 1 gen 3 now, and what we were talking about is dexos 1 gen 2 which is thicker but less detergency. So I thought dexos d was for diesels, now what is gen 2, dam time for a venn diagram.

 

[Burla]

not confusing at all, lol?

Dexos D and Dexos 2 are both engine oils from General Motors (GM) that are designed for different types of vehicles and have different features:

• Dexos D
  This low viscosity oil is formulated for light-duty diesel engines and is designed to excel in extreme temperatures. It also helps maintain power and fuel efficiency, and provides clean engine operation. Dexos D oils meet or exceed the performance of Dexos 2 oils and are backward compatible.
  
  
  
• Dexos 2
  This oil is designed for diesel and some petrol-driven vehicles, and is recommended for European light-duty diesel engines and gasoline engines. It's also designed to meet Low SAP requirements for vehicles with exhaust treatment devices like Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs). Dexos 2 oils are based on API Group III base oils and are SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40. They're also designed to reduce wear and keep the engine clean.

 

[HEMIMANN]

not confusing at all, lol?

Dexos D and Dexos 2 are both engine oils from General Motors (GM) that are designed for different types of vehicles and have different features:

• Dexos D
  This low viscosity oil is formulated for light-duty diesel engines and is designed to excel in extreme temperatures. It also helps maintain power and fuel efficiency, and provides clean engine operation. Dexos D oils meet or exceed the performance of Dexos 2 oils and are backward compatible.
  
  
  
• Dexos 2
  This oil is designed for diesel and some petrol-driven vehicles, and is recommended for European light-duty diesel engines and gasoline engines. It's also designed to meet Low SAP requirements for vehicles with exhaust treatment devices like Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs). Dexos 2 oils are based on API Group III base oils and are SAE 5W-30 and 5W-40. They're also designed to reduce wear and keep the engine clean.

Naming convention makes perfect sense.

 

[Burla]

I'll bring my focus group, lets be democratic as well, let's have a vote.