Synthetic Oil

[HEMIMANN]

Just add bottle of B-12 Chemtool once a month and filler up. Take a car with sluggish throttle, add B-12 and inside 5 miles you can tell a marked difference.

****Do not use B-12 in diesel engines****

Hear say it does not play well with diesel engines. Works too well.

Dunno what B-12 is. I use PEA only, as tested and demonstrated. Highest concentrate of PEA is Red Line Pl-1 Additive.

Even PEA inventor Chevron ("Techron" Brand Name) patent long expired and has substituted a cheaper and less effective detergent. Polybuta-something-something. It's all out there on the interweb.

 

[Burla]

Just add bottle of B-12 Chemtool once a month and filler up. Take a car with sluggish throttle, add B-12 and inside 5 miles you can tell a marked difference.

****Do not use B-12 in diesel engines****

Hear say it does not play well with diesel engines. Works too well.

This is what chemtool is..

All solvents, a tad alc.


Component CAS RN Weight
Toluene 108-88-3 40-50%
Acetone 67-64-1 20-25%
Methanol 67-56-1 20-25%
Methyl Ethyl Ketone 78-93-3 1-5%
2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 1-5%
2-Propanol 67-63-0 1-5%

 

[Burla]

I think top tier recognized that their minimum was not enough for modern engines. Still leaking info, but this is what they say, I guess we can assume more additives. Anyhow, put the gov't in charge and it will become a bad joke. It's a si-1 commercial the top tier website. The EPA screwed it all up by having insufficient additive levels for modern engines. Take the EPA out of it and report your additive levels, the consumer can handle the info. The top tier was set by port injected engines that wash their valves naturally, and don't explode if you have a little carbon build up. To manu's credit they are driving change, they are course correcting, but a lil late there buddy.

The website toptiergas.com is operated and managed by the Center for Quality Assurance (CQA), on behalf of the automotive manufacturers who sponsor the TOP TIER™ Program. [1, 2, 3, 4]
The program and its performance standards were originally created in 2004 by leading automakers (including BMW, General Motors, Toyota, and Honda). It is now sponsored by a larger group of manufacturers to ensure fuel quality meets the demands of modern engines, often exceeding basic EPA detergent requirements. [1, 2, 3]

Would you like help locating TOP TIER™ approved fuel stations near you, or do you need more information on how the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline standard compares to standard TOP TIER Gasoline fuels?

Use our Station Finder tool online or get the app to locate TOP TIER™ approved stations near you.

Fuel retailers are starting to roll out TOP TIER+ fuels in late 2025. By January 2027, most (if not all) approved brands should have transitioned for gasoline.
Diesel fuels will have both the Base and Plus options available depending on the station.


As for "my" Costco...

Yes. Costco is an officially certified TOP TIER™ and TOP TIER+ gasoline retailer. Both their regular and premium Kirkland Signature™ fuels contain five times the EPA detergent requirement, ensuring optimal performance and cleanliness for your engine.

.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Top Tier's May 26 article announced that Costco, BP and Amoco are Top Tier + right now. This implies the other brands are NOT Top Tier + yet.

I don't know how you are supposed to tell? Maybe there is a new Top Tier + sticker on the pumps? I don't drive the truck much in summer so haven't been to Costco for a while. (I ride the Harley whenever I can - summer is only 12 weeks here). Somebody report back here when you fill up.

I can tell you last week BP had not yet put ANY Top Tier label on their gas pumps here when I gassed up the Harley. And so, Top Tier Org says that BP SAYS their gas is Top Tier + NOW - with no label. Terrific.

Here's the article:

"We are pleased to share that bp and Amoco gasolines are certified TOP TIER+. bp and Amoco’s long-standing Invigorate® additive underwent the testing for the Plus gasoline standard and passed, extending the benefits of TOP TIER™ to more vehicles than ever before. Drivers can now look out for new TOP TIER™+ decals rolling out across their network of more than 7,500 bp and Amoco retail sites.

We are working on updates to the website and Station Finder App that will identify brands with the Plus standard. Once a brand is fully converted to TOP TIER+ and the brand is ready to announce its status update, we will update their stations on both the website and app. Currently, Amoco, bp and Costco are the national brands that have announced they are TOP TIER™+."

 

[Motoman501]

I don't know how you are supposed to tell? Maybe there is a new Top Tier + sticker on the pumps?

My local Costco says Top Tier + on the sticker on the pump.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Burla - back in 1986, I clearly remember (hah!) when I was with Mobil a huge marketing campaign on the Consumer Biz side announcing extra detergent additive in Mobil gasolines for the then-new fuel-injected gasoline engines, both single injector throttle body, and intake port injected (both multi port and sequential port). It was a huge deal because gas was pretty $hitty before then because carburetor jets weren't nearly as small an orifice as the multiple tiny orifices in fuel injectors. So the early injectors were clogging up by 20,000 miles are so and engines were sputtering.

I was in Industrial Lubricants Division, of course. But we heard about the "other side" a lot.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Remember I said the general public is stupid, as the reason they don't pay another 3 cents a gallon for Top Tier detergent gasoline, despite their government-mandated funky motor needing it?

Here's AAA documenting it -

4. Approximately six in ten drivers (63%) believe there is a difference in the quality of gasoline
sold by retailers, yet only (12%) of drivers purchase gasoline based upon its detergent
additive package. The primary motivation for choosing a particular gas station is location /
convenience (75%), followed closely by the price of the fuel (73%).

5. Most TOP TIER gasolines do not cost significantly more than non-TOP TIER gasoline. The
average price difference between the TOP TIER and non-TOP TIER brands surveyed was
three cents per gallon over a 12-month period.

 

[HEMIMANN]

And here's a nice visual of the 4 states with bribed legislators forcing us to use alcohol gas, I'm in one (Minnesota):

We've tried to break the agri-business lobby from their stranglehold of our state government, but there's no fighting the Cargill Family's billions of bribes to them. Cargill is a major agriprocessor, headquartered in MN, that also makes ethanol from corn for blending. The other one is Archer Daniels Midland in Illinois. Since most Illinois residents are in the Chicagah Metra, you get the connection - the best government that money can buy-off.

 

[Curmudgeon]

As for Top Tier+ I don't believe I have seen any here in my corner
of PA, but right now I'm getting gas from a convenience store chain that
has both 90 octane Ethanol Free and Top Tier.

The closest Shell, one of the Top 5, is about 25 miles one way and not Ethanol Free. I'll probably stick with the 90/E0 Top Tier and drive 3 miles 1-way. And keep playing with RL Sl-1.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Having read the complete AAA report, they state that PEA is best at in-cylinder cleaning (piston crown, ring lands, cyl head), and the polyboogabugga's are better at intake valve stems and injector nozzle cleaning.

1st time I've ever seen this stated. Part of the solution to beaucoup mileage and power density ICE engines is DUAL fuel injection - obviously. Yeah, it costs more too. But it does the job the original GDI was supposed to do - it injects lean mixtures direct, and rich stoichiometric mixtures port. This would reduce the soot loading greatly.

Toyota and Ford are making some vehicles with such engines. Ideally, detergent additives in gasoline would be formulated to clean ALL 3 critical engine components.

 

[Burla]

I'm still on PEA unless I see white paper on difference.

PEA (Polyetheramine): The strongest, most aggressive detergent. It is chemically stable at combustion temperatures and scrubs away baked-on carbo

• PIBA (Polyisobutylene amine): A slightly weaker cleaning agent, often found in cheaper bargain bottles. It excels at cleaning port fuel injectors and light varnish, but breaks down under extreme heat. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• PIB (Polyisobutylene): Primarily a dispersant and lubricity improver. It prevents sludge from settling but generally doesn't remove hardened carbon

 

[Yardbird]

TOP TIER and TOP TIER+ are fuel performance standards set by major automakers, differing primarily in how they accommodate engine technology. While traditional TOP TIER ensures fuel injector cleanliness and deposit control for older engines, TOP TIER+ adds rigorous standards for Gasoline Direct Injection (GDI) engines. [1, 2]

TOP TIER

• Focus: Originally designed to elevate the standard of gasoline above baseline EPA requirements, largely for port fuel injected (PFI) engines.
• • Benefits: Prevents carbon buildup on intake valves, reduces harmful engine deposits, and maintains critical fuel economy.
  • Availability: Widely available across the US from over 50 major retailers, including brands like Costco, Shell, and Chevron. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

TOP TIER+

• Focus: An evolved standard introduced to meet the unique detergency and combustion requirements of modern, high-efficiency GDI engines. [1, 2]
• Benefits: Offers superior fuel injector cleanliness, enhanced wear protection, and greater oxidation stability to prevent severe carbon clogging seen in high-pressure injectors. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• Rollout: Currently available at select brands and is slated to become the sole performance standard. National retailers like bp, Amoco, and Costco have already transitioned to the Plus designation.

 

[Govtman]

This is what chemtool is..

All solvents, a tad alc.


Component CAS RN Weight
Toluene 108-88-3 40-50%
Acetone 67-64-1 20-25%
Methanol 67-56-1 20-25%
Methyl Ethyl Ketone 78-93-3 1-5%
2-Butoxyethanol 111-76-2 1-5%
2-Propanol 67-63-0 1-5%

Just what a clogged motor needs

I know it cleans injectors in short order.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm still on PEA unless I see white paper on difference.

PEA (Polyetheramine): The strongest, most aggressive detergent. It is chemically stable at combustion temperatures and scrubs away baked-on carbo a

• PIBA (Polyisobutylene amine): A slightly weaker cleaning agent, often found in cheaper bargain bottles. It excels at cleaning port fuel injectors and light varnish, but breaks down under extreme heat. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• PIB (Polyisobutylene): Primarily a dispersant and lubricity improver. It prevents sludge from settling but generally doesn't remove hardened carbon

Isn't the AAA test report a white paper?

I stated their conclusions. They could not comment on what the gasoline additive company recipes are because they are proprietary secret. Only the test results and the chemical attributes are stated.

I didn't scroll thru the cited references to see where they got their information how the PIB additives are better than PEA for valve stems and injector nozzles. Nor do we know if there is a retail version of the proprietary Top Tier detergent additives used at the truck fill depot.

The SDS's provide clues, but don't state anything beyond that.

I suspect PEA is most effective in the high temp regions due to the nitrogen amine resisting combustion temperature. This would explain why perhaps why the PIB's may be more effective cleaning cold regions, intake valve stems & injector nozzles while spraying gasoline.

So yeah, we stick with PEA until & unless one of the Top Tier additive companies sells their product retail.

This is all so stupid. A kluge of government chaos, consumer ignorance, and corporate greed. Amazing we can keep any engines running at all now days.

 

[Burla]

We have posted white papers on this somewhere (in response to gov't man), most of us who have been her a while have seen them. It's up to you, as you sound satisfied, but none of us care about brand we care about the science and the science is settled and then some.

Polyetheramine (PEA) is significantly better and much safer for cleaning fuel injectors than harsh solvents like acetone. While harsh solvents can quickly strip surface grime, they dislodge large debris chunks and can degrade your vehicle's rubber or plastic fuel lines. [1, 2, 3, 4]
PEA is the industry standard for safe and highly effective injector maintenance. A breakdown of why PEA is superior shows exactly how the chemicals perform: [1]

Polyetheramine (PEA)

• How it works: PEA is a specialized, nitrogen-based detergent that chemically binds to baked-on carbon deposits. It dissolves the carbon into micro-particles that safely burn off in the combustion chamber. [1, 2, 3]
• Safety: It is perfectly safe for rubber seals, O-rings, and nylon fuel lines. [1]
• Effectiveness: It can withstand the intense heat of the combustion chamber, making it the most potent ingredient available for long-term cleaning of injectors and intake valves. [1, 2]
• Top Products: The strongest PEA-based formulations include Chevron Techron Concentrate Plus and Red Line SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner. [1, 2, 3]

Acetone & Hardware Solvents

• How it works: Acetone is an aggressive solvent. It will dissolve varnish and gum, but it can break up carbon buildup in large pieces.
• Risks: Dislodged debris can get caught in your fuel filter or physically block the tiny holes in your fuel injectors. Furthermore, acetone can dry out and severely damage rubber O-rings, seals, and plastic fuel system components

 

[Burla]

Isn't the AAA test report a white paper?

As I stated I hadn't read it yet What did it say about the lesser detergents piba and the other one?

 

[HEMIMANN]

As I stated I hadn't read it yet What did it say about the lesser detergents piba and the other one?

Ok, one worked the best on intake valves, the other worked best on injector nozzles. I'd stated this above.

I did not investigate the sources in the bibliography.

 

[turkeybird56]

Kinda quiet here - anybody having trouble getting synthetic oil yet, as predicted (due to Strait of Hormuz shut down)?

Or y'all hoarded up?

I've got oil and filters for "2" changes in reserve. Includes lubeguard also.

 

[Grams]

Diesel fuels will have both the Base and Plus options available depending on the station.


.

I predict that IF THAT should actually occur…. it will not be for any real-improvement whatsoever….. Except to artificially-create additional-PROFIT by simple re-labelling existing product.

 

[grizzstang]

And here's a nice visual of the 4 states with bribed legislators forcing us to use alcohol gas, I'm in one (Minnesota):

We've tried to break the agri-business lobby from their stranglehold of our state government, but there's no fighting the Cargill Family's billions of bribes to them. Cargill is a major agriprocessor, headquartered in MN, that also makes ethanol from corn for blending. The other one is Archer Daniels Midland in Illinois. Since most Illinois residents are in the Chicagah Metra, you get the connection - the best government that money can buy-off.

View attachment 586451

Only 4 states.

E10 is Canada wide up here thanks to our socialist government. You used to be able to get straight gas in premium but those days are long gone.