Timing issue

[Warrior52784]

2010 ram 5.7 hemi vvt. I havin an issue with timing and hoping someone can help me out .

I have recently did an mds delete and put a lot of new parts into n including non mds lifter, cam (stock) , dummy plugs, water pump, oil pump, cam sensor, head gaskets, lifter tray, thermostat, VVT sprocket and solenoid, timing chain, chain guides all new gaskets on everything and I’m sure som other things I’m forgetting. Heads were surfaced and cleaned by machine shop.

Issue I’m having is the engine starts and runs well. Then soon after (mayb 1 minute ) you can hear it start to run rough and after around 3 minutes it’s misfiring .

No codes on initial fire up. After it starts running rough cam/crank misalignment and cylinder 6 misfire.

Engine has been disassembled 4 time to make sure timing chain didn’t jump. Engin is always in time. So I’m down to electronic issue. I have run a cam crank sensor relearn multiple times. Computer states that the relearn was complete. Engine still misfires and runs rough once engine starts warming up.

Let me know your thoughts. I am thinking my new cam sensor may be bad as I just replaced it because I was there . Or crank sensor may have gone bad . Other than those two things I have no clue

 

[jws123]

Did you tune the truck after you installed the non MDS cam? you 100% have to. Also make sure your push rods are all seated common issue timing is easy to set as long as you use the factory marks requires removing oil pump also would not hurt to do a compression test.

 

[mrack]

Just spitballing here but you might check the intake manifold good for holes, if I’m remembering right I think I read a thread a while back where a hole in the intake manifold caused a cam/crank misalignment code.

 

[Warrior52784]

Did you tune the truck after you installed the non MDS cam? you 100% have to. Also make sure your push rods are all seated common issue timing is easy to set as long as you use the factory marks requires removing oil pump also would not hurt to do a compression test.

Yes tune was done to turn off the mds .

 

[Warrior52784]

Just spitballing here but you might check the intake manifold good for holes, if I’m remembering right I think I read a thread a while back where a hole in the intake manifold caused a cam/crank misalignment code.

Have completed a smoke test in the manifold and no leaks were seen . Compression was fine across all 8

 

[Wild one]

Yes tune was done to turn off the mds .

Was it a custom tune,or did you just turn off the mds using a Diablo tuner and their canned tunes.
By "stock" cam,did you just stick a new mds cam back in the engine and use non-mds lifters with it.
Who's lifters/cam /sensors etc,are you using,aftermarket sensors don't play nice with Chrysler electronics,and the majority of after market lifters are poor quality lifters

 

[jws123]

Wait i just re read did you use a non MDS cam And lifters? or a MDS cam non mds lifters if so that doesnt work.

Also when done correctly you still have to tune the truck its not just turning mds off or it will miss at idle.

 

[Ken226]

If I remember right, the lobes that operate the MDS lifters are a few degrees more advanced than the others. Also the MDS cams have a primary ramp on the lobes that correspond to the MDS lifters, which take up some of extra lash in the MDS lifters and give the lifters a little more time to allow the locking pins to engage/disengage, and for the PCM to momentarily unlock the torque converter during the transition.



The theory is that MDS lobe geometry working on a non-MDS lifter results in a valve that opens just a little, floats barely open on the primary ramp, and too early, resulting in a misfire, somewhat emulating the symptoms of a broken valve spring on the cylinders with MDS lifters.

Or something like that.

 

[Warrior52784]

Wait i just re read did you use a non MDS cam And lifters? or a MDS cam non mds lifters if so that doesnt work.

Also when done correctly you still have to tune the truck its not just turning mds off or it will miss at idle.

Comp cam lifters (non mds). With non mds cam (stock specs). AMS racing was the camshaft. Can sensor was a duralast

 

[Warrior52784]

Wait i just re read did you use a non MDS cam And lifters? or a MDS cam non mds lifters if so that doesnt work.

Also when done correctly you still have to tune the truck its not just turning mds off or it will miss at idle.

Non mds cam. Non mds lifters.

 

[Warrior52784]

Was it a custom tune,or did you just turn off the mds using a Diablo tuner and their canned tunes.
By "stock" cam,did you just stick a new mds cam back in the engine and use non-mds lifters with it.
Who's lifters/cam /sensors etc,are you using,aftermarket sensors don't play nice with Chrysler electronics,and the majority of after market lifters are poor quality lifters

It was a generic tune from a Diablo. Aftermarket cam sensor from auto zone. Duralast. Non mds cam from AMS racing and comp lifters non mds

 

[Warrior52784]

So do I really need to trailer a truck to someone who can custom tune this engine !?!? If I had a walk through I could probably do it but I have never run a custom tuning program

 

[jws123]

So do I really need to trailer a truck to someone who can custom tune this engine !?!? If I had a walk through I could probably do it but I have never run a custom tuning program

you may need to however DO a compression test first.

 

[Jim BB]

It was a generic tune from a Diablo. Aftermarket cam sensor from auto zone. Duralast. Non mds cam from AMS racing and comp lifters non mds

Aftermarket electronic components do not play nice with Ram wiring and ECM ! I would bite the bullet on the cost of the aftermarket sensors then suck up the cost of OEM sensors and install them !

 

[jws123]

Aftermarket electronic components do not play nice with Ram wiring and ECM ! I would bite the bullet on the cost of the aftermarket sensors then suck up the cost of OEM sensors and install them !

You know alot of people say this however im rinnig aftermarket cam/crank sensors duralast without issue. But like anything new they could be bad can happen even with OEM.

 

[Jim BB]

You know alot of people say this however im rinnig aftermarket cam/crank sensors duralast without issue. But like anything new they could be bad can happen even with OEM.

very true ! but as a old tech I have seen more aftermarket sensors be bad or not function on not only Ram but asian as well right out of the box more often than than OEM! so for the cost and time in long run OEM is cheaper 90% of the time in my opinion ! and again no one is forcing anyone to do something they don't want tot do It is just a personal opinion and observation

 

[jws123]

So do I really need to trailer a truck to someone who can custom tune this engine !?!? If I had a walk through I could probably do it but I have never run a custom tuning program

When you remove the mds solenoids you did re plug in the VVT solenoid correct? its the same harness.

 

[Wild one]

So do I really need to trailer a truck to someone who can custom tune this engine !?!? If I had a walk through I could probably do it but I have never run a custom tuning program

Most tuners can do a remote tune.

 

[Wild one]

It was a generic tune from a Diablo. Aftermarket cam sensor from auto zone. Duralast. Non mds cam from AMS racing and comp lifters non mds

I wouldn't of picked those components,hopefully the lifters pan out,but comps lifters don't have the greatest of reps,and i'd swap out the non OEM sensor for an OEM sensor.
Cam / lifters and sensors aren't something you want to go cheap on,as they can cause you all kinds of headaches.
Here's hoping a good remote tune and a oem sensor cures your issues

 

[Warrior52784]

When you remove the mds solenoids you did re plug in the VVT solenoid correct? its the same harness.

Yes. Yes vvt sprocket and solenoid were both replaced as well