Too late for a catch can?

[audio1der]

I just put one on at 17,000 but I think this whole catch can issue is over played just a bit.....

I'm curious, not argumentative about this; what is over played?
I don't collect near as much crud as anyone else I've seen report back, but it still makes me feel MUCH better knowing I'm not recirculating that crap through the top end. I would not say a catch can's value is over played one bit.

 

[jcat]

I'm curious, not argumentative about this; what is over played?
I don't collect near as much crud as anyone else I've seen report back, but it still makes me feel MUCH better knowing I'm not recirculating that crap through the top end. I would not say a catch can's value is over played one bit.

Every car on the road has a pcv system from the factory. Majority of cars note go 200k easily without make engine trouble. I've yet to hear of engine failure directly caused by having the pcv recirculating into the intake. Sure it's peace of mind, but imo in the hemi community it's touted as this magical must have end all be all that will make your engine last forever and it really isn't. I think that's what sybil was getting at.

 

[BlownGP]

I'm curious, not argumentative about this; what is over played?
I don't collect near as much crud as anyone else I've seen report back, but it still makes me feel MUCH better knowing I'm not recirculating that crap through the top end. I would not say a catch can's value is over played one bit.

Every car on the road has a pcv system from the factory. Majority of cars note go 200k easily without make engine trouble. I've yet to hear of engine failure directly caused by having the pcv recirculating into the intake. Sure it's peace of mind, but imo in the hemi community it's touted as this magical must have end all be all that will make your engine last forever and it really isn't. I think that's what sybil was getting at.

Exactly

Again. I have one but mines home made and did'nt cost $100

I think they do work, but do you know how many HEMI's DO NOT RUN a catch can? They seem to be all running fine. Guy at work as a 08 300c with over 100,000 miles. Bone stock and never had any problems. He just complains about the ****** stock suspension.

I don't hear people complaining. Oh man I blew my motor because I had a little oil mist in my intake. lol

 

[ExpressRules]

As was said, recycling oil vapor through the PVC valve for reburning has been done for years. The catch can isn't a fountain of youth. All that is lost by gettin one is a few dollars and the time it takes to empty it. If it gives someone peice of mind to have one then I say do it. Until I see scientific evidence that shows a catch can gives longer life to a engine I choice to go without.

 

[Sybil]

I'm curious, not argumentative about this; what is over played?

Title says too late for a catch can? LOL Really?....If you never get one your truck is not going to die. Out of all the cars I have, never bought one until now and some I ran to 200,000 miles.

Pistons were clean. had the throttle body cleaned once on one. My Viper has 30,000 miles and throttle bodies are clean. Pistons clean. No catch can. I will be buying one eventually that has a breather system on it for high performance but that is the only reason.

I think it would be more beneficial on race cars where more oil is obviously going to be spewed but for a daily driver it is not a big deal if you don't get one. Not saying you shouldn't because they are cheap just saying.

Now my rant on some of you guys who are worried about a little oil being ran threw, I can't for the life of me figure out why so many will spend $100 0r $150 for a catch can but are to cheap to spend $120.00 on a decent coolant such as Evan's. It's waterless, you get no more corrosion, heater cores/water pumps radiators last the life of the vehicle. 360 degree boiling point and it never has to be replaced again.


Just a thought....

 

[HemiRoar]

^^ homegirl's got a point lol

 

[evanblain]

^^ homegirl's got a point lol

Damn lol you're right.

 

[Sir John]

It's funny how the catch can craze is here, with the Rams, too. I just traded in my 2013 F150 Ecoboost for my 2014 Ram Hemi 5.7. It was sooooo annoying constantly hearing on the F150 forums about how you needed a catch can....blah blah blah. Don't forget, the Ecoboost is a twin turbo so the blow by is MUCH worse so a catch can did actually make since, but on a naturally aspirated V8....nah. If you got money to blow, then go ahead, but it's not needed on our Hemi.

 

[BlownGP]

It's funny how the catch can craze is here, with the Rams, too. I just traded in my 2013 F150 Ecoboost for my 2014 Ram Hemi 5.7. It was sooooo annoying constantly hearing on the F150 forums about how you needed a catch can....blah blah blah. Don't forget, the Ecoboost is a twin turbo so the blow by is MUCH worse so a catch can did actually make since, but on a naturally aspirated V8....nah. If you got money to blow, then go ahead, but it's not needed on our Hemi.

It's the same way in the LSx world. Even though the first LS1 did have a crappy PCV system, they got better over the years with the LS6, LS2 etc..
But still people think they need to run them.

 

[audio1der]

Title says too late for a catch can? LOL Really?....If you never get one your truck is not going to die. Out of all the cars I have, never bought one until now and some I ran to 200,000 miles.

Pistons were clean. had the throttle body cleaned once on one. My Viper has 30,000 miles and throttle bodies are clean. Pistons clean. No catch can. I will be buying one eventually that has a breather system on it for high performance but that is the only reason.

I think it would be more beneficial on race cars where more oil is obviously going to be spewed but for a daily driver it is not a big deal if you don't get one. Not saying you shouldn't because they are cheap just saying.

Now my rant on some of you guys who are worried about a little oil being ran threw, I can't for the life of me figure out why so many will spend $100 0r $150 for a catch can but are to cheap to spend $120.00 on a decent coolant such as Evan's. It's waterless, you get no more corrosion, heater cores/water pumps radiators last the life of the vehicle. 360 degree boiling point and it never has to be replaced again.


Just a thought....

I wouldn't argue a single point here, S. But what is important (or makes one member sleep better at night) may be different than another. While I think my engine would be fine with or without a catch can, I feel it was worth the price to catch that crap. That's a personal peeve of mine, and the can takes care of it. I have never heard of Evan's, but will look into it as I may be doing the 180* tstat soon anyway.

 

[jcat]

Well let's not get carried away with the catch can bashing.

I've seen first hand how much oil can be pulled into the intake through the PCV system on cars with forced induction, particularly ones that weren't designed with FI from the factory (had a procharged 98 cobra...inside of intake tube was coated in oil). This is because the boost pressure is way stronger than vac pressure, so it sucks the oil in faster than it normally would.

IMO, the two things you absolutely have to do with any supercharged or turbocharged vehicle with no exceptions are 91+ octane fuel (obviously doesn't apply to diesel) and either a breather in place of the PCV or a catch can, simply because the boost WILL draw in more oil than non-FI cars.

Cleaning the throttle body is a decent idea on any car, FI or not. If you're going to be in there wrenching for an oil change anyway, maybe every 3rd or 4th oil change just hit it with some TB cleaner or carb cleaner and a rag and be done with it.

You know what's a WAY more valid concern with the factory intake? The fact that the PCV line comes into the airbox behind the filter but BEFORE the IAT sensor. That's another one to consider cleaning periodically with some electronics cleaner. A coating of motor oil will insulate the sensor element from reading temps correctly, which could potentially affect the way the truck runs.

 

[Casper]

Every car on the road has a pcv system from the factory. Majority of cars note go 200k easily without make engine trouble. I've yet to hear of engine failure directly caused by having the pcv recirculating into the intake. Sure it's peace of mind, but imo in the hemi community it's touted as this magical must have end all be all that will make your engine last forever and it really isn't. I think that's what sybil was getting at.

Then my friend you should prove us all wrong and do without a catch can and keep your Hemi to 200K miles--if you can.

I have collected more than 20 oz of funky milkshake over the 14K miles I have had a can installed.
As an old Navy wrench, I have seen intake valve fouling from deposits in normal fuel, both gas and diesel. Petroleum products transform in the presence of heat, with less flammable components thickening and adhering to metal surfaces only to bake in place. It's not cook-off hot in the intake manifold, afterall its plastic, but it is warm enough to turn that crud to varnish. So allowing vaporized motor oil mixed with water vapor and carbon and soot from piston ring blow-by dredged up form the engine sump through the PCV to enter my air intake passages--without the benefit of fuel to help burn it off since of course these engines are fuel injected--is just bad mechanical practice.
The lack of a can or other disposal method is due to laziness on the part of auto manufactures, because they know it wont be a problem until after you trade it in, or the term of the five year warranty. It's just like the **** who leases a vehicle for 36months and never changes the oil--its someone else's problem. Or Ford deciding not to deal with the Pinto gas tank problem--except a catch can is DIY and a good investment.

 

[jcat]

Then my friend you should prove us all wrong and do without a catch can and keep your Hemi to 200K miles--if you can.

I have collected more than 20 oz of funky milkshake over the 14K miles I have had a can installed.
As an old Navy wrench, I have seen intake valve fowling from deposits in normal fuel, both gas and diesel. Petroleum products transform in the presence of heat, with less flammable components thickening and adhering to metal surfaces only to bake in place. It's not cook-off hot in the intake manifold, afterall its plastic. So allowing vaporized motor oil mixed with water vapor and piston ring blow-by products derdged up form the engine sump through the PCV to enter my air intake passages--without the benefit of fuel to help burn it off since of course these engines are fuel injected--is just bad mechanical practice.. The lack of a can or other disposal method is due to laziness on the part of auto manufactures, because they know it wont be a problem until after you trade it in, or the term of the five warranty. It's just like the **** who leases a vehicle for 36months and never changes the oil--its someone else's problem. Or Ford deciding not to deal with the Pinto gas tank problem, except a catch can is DIY and a good investment.

Well my current truck is a lease, so I won't be keeping it for that many miles.

However, all you need to do is look on craigslist at the dozens of hemi chargers/300's/magnums that are for sale with 150-180k miles on them. Sure they have plenty of problems, but the motors are still running fine, and I'll guarantee they don't have a catch can on them.

Using a decent fuel system detergent (Lucas, Techron etc.) every couple-few oil changes will take care of your intake valve problem.

20oz of oil in 14k miles is 1.4oz per 1000 miles, or 7 oz in the typically standard 5000 mile oil change interval.

7 oz is just a hair over 1/5th of a quart, drawn in and burned off per oil change. I saw early model RX-8's that needed a quart of oil every 2 weeks, and that was considered normal.

We're not saying there's NO benefit....we're just saying that the effect is way overblown by the reports on this forum. Sure, keeping that 20oz of oil out of your intake for those 14k miles may have helped keep things clean, but chances are of that 20oz at least 15-18 would have eventually been burned off and cleaned out (if you're doing your part, that is) and your truck would be running absolutely no different than it is right now.

 

[Casper]

Title says too late for a catch can? LOL Really?....If you never get one your truck is not going to die. Out of all the cars I have, never bought one until now and some I ran to 200,000 miles.

Pistons were clean. had the throttle body cleaned once on one. My Viper has 30,000 miles and throttle bodies are clean. Pistons clean. No catch can. I will be buying one eventually that has a breather system on it for high performance but that is the only reason.

I think it would be more beneficial on race cars where more oil is obviously going to be spewed but for a daily driver it is not a big deal if you don't get one. Not saying you shouldn't because they are cheap just saying.

Now my rant on some of you guys who are worried about a little oil being ran threw, I can't for the life of me figure out why so many will spend $100 0r $150 for a catch can but are to cheap to spend $120.00 on a decent coolant such as Evan's. It's waterless, you get no more corrosion, heater cores/water pumps radiators last the life of the vehicle. 360 degree boiling point and it never has to be replaced again.


Just a thought....

Because HEMIs are fuel injected there is no solvent (gas) to assit in moving the oily waste--the funky milkshake I stop with a catch can--into the cylinders to be burned off. Instead it cooks onto the intake valves as varnish causing uneven heating and accelerated wear, or onto the valve seat causing fouling. The harder you run the engine, or the more bolt ons you have, the more blow-by is generated and the more oil vapor and entrained combustion by-products from blow-by your intake will suck up out of your PCV and the more funky milkshake your engine gets to eat. The stuff that doesn't condense onto the inside of your intake manifold deos get burned in your cylinders--causing pre-ignition (lower octane) and forcing your engine control to cut back timing. Retarded timing = less power.

Someday, someone will have to address all that crap in the intake. Maybe not you, maybe the next owner. Or maybe you get to pay for a valve job at the stealership....

Not only does my catch can look good hanging on the side of my engine, but the 20 ounces of yiltch I've collected over the last 18 months reminds me everytime I look at it, just how glad I am its not clogging the inside of my Hemi.

Free will is all about choice. Life, however eventually gets around to punishing the poor choices we make.

 

[Casper]

Well my current truck is a lease, so I won't be keeping it for that many miles.

However, all you need to do is look on craigslist at the dozens of hemi chargers/300's/magnums that are for sale with 150-180k miles on them. Sure they have plenty of problems, but the motors are still running fine, and I'll guarantee they don't have a catch can on them.

Using a decent fuel system detergent (Lucas, Techron etc.) every couple-few oil changes will take care of your intake valve problem.

20oz of oil in 14k miles is 1.4oz per 1000 miles, or 7 oz in the typically standard 5000 mile oil change interval.

7 oz is just a hair over 1/5th of a quart, drawn in and burned off per oil change. I saw early model RX-8's that needed a quart of oil every 2 weeks, and that was considered normal.

We're not saying there's NO benefit....we're just saying that the effect is way overblown by the reports on this forum. Sure, keeping that 20oz of oil out of your intake for those 14k miles may have helped keep things clean, but chances are of that 20oz at least 15-18 would have eventually been burned off and cleaned out (if you're doing your part, that is) and your truck would be running absolutely no different than it is right now.

You have a fuel injected engine. Fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. There is no fuel cleaner passing through your intake, only air and the yiltch sucked up form your PCV.

Unless you seafoam the intake manifold yourself, you are just ******* in the wind.

 

[BlownGP]

Then my friend you should prove us all wrong and do without a catch can and keep your Hemi to 200K miles--if you can.

See, that's the thing. I will never keep a car with 200K+ miles on it. At least one I will drive everyday..

This truck will probably be gone not long after 100K depending on my financial situation.

 

[ExpressRules]

Because HEMIs are fuel injected there is no solvent (gas) to assit in moving the oily waste--the funky milkshake I stop with a catch can--into the cylinders to be burned off. Instead it cooks onto the intake valves as varnish causing uneven heating and accelerated wear, or onto the valve seat causing fouling. The harder you run the engine, or the more bolt ons you have, the more blow-by is generated and the more oil vapor and entrained combustion by-products from blow-by your intake will suck up out of your PCV and the more funky milkshake your engine gets to eat. The stuff that doesn't condense onto the inside of your intake manifold deos get burned in your cylinders--causing pre-ignition (lower octane) and forcing your engine control to cut back timing. Retarded timing = less power.

Someday, someone will have to address all that crap in the intake. Maybe not you, maybe the next owner. Or maybe you get to pay for a valve job at the stealership....

Not only does my catch can look good hanging on the side of my engine, but the 20 ounces of yiltch I've collected over the last 18 months reminds me everytime I look at it, just how glad I am its not clogging the inside of my Hemi.

Free will is all about choice. Life, however eventually gets around to punishing the poor choices we make.

People seem to be very passionate about this topic. I don't wish to start any fights among the members here, but all the gloom and doom I read in the multiple threads about what will happen without a catch can are all antidotal personal opinion. May your intake look dirtier without a catch can? Very much possible. Will that cause your engine to fail or have a discernible change in performance? I doubt it. To each their own.

 

[gunner1374]

My Dad's friend has a 2007 Ram 1500 with the Hemi, no catch can, and drives all over the country with a small trailer doing inspections on oilfield equipment. He has not done anything but oil and other various fluid changes, brakes a few times, tires, and, at last count, I believe he was sitting at roughly 390K??? Truck still looks amazing too! Catch cans are definately not going to hurt our engines, but not sold on the amount of help they are to them either. Also, still on stock original tranny. Hard to believe with guys on here getting trannys swapped in their 2013 trucks. Its the differences in opinions that makes this world interesting. Plus, if the whole world thought and acted alike, there would be no use for Marines

 

[jcat]

I'm just saying there's no real difference aside from looks between the 130 dollar billet catch cans everyone loves and an oil separator made from 8 dollars in parts at home depot.

 

[Casper]

I'm just saying there's no real difference aside from looks between the 130 dollar billet catch cans everyone loves and an oil separator made from 8 dollars in parts at home depot.

You are saying that now, and I agree, but there was a whole lot of can doubt before you boiled it down that statement^^

I did the compressor air filter mod at first but didn't like the Rube Goldberg look to it. It worked, but the plastic bottle was always too close to the engine block.

I figured the last thing I needed was slagged plastic running down my exhaust manifold with a vacuum leak.