troutspinner’s Budget SQ 2014 Crew Cab Build

[DavidRam]

Just really love trout fishing. A friend of mine and I are pretty extreme and chase wild trout all over the state. It allows us to see some very rare sites and catch fish not many would believe live in Pa waters. We have a blog site if you are interested, Century Mark Outdoors.

We do both aspire to create a TV show one day so yes, that would be one heck of a job. We've already been in contact with a couple of outdoor channels about a program based on how we do it and they did express interest but for now we are just collecting footage to hopefully one day soon to present a demo.

Wow, killer website! I was just browsing around and reading (which means looking at pictures for me) for 20 minutes!
Best of luck with getting a show, man!

You my friend are correct!

I gave myself the kiss of death earlier mentioning that I was in a slow period. I could swear that my customers have my house bugged as ANY time I say or write that I am slow the phone rings and the email flows. No sooner did I write that post and a couple of new jobs came in, both "rush" as usual. I guess I shouldn't complain though, it is money!

Because of this I decided to throw the mids in this afternoon while I had a chance. Once finished I connected my laptop to the DSP and turned the channels on, did some crude crossover and time alignment and said damn! this is what I've been missing!

My only experience with speakers in the dash were tweeters and they were harsh bouncing off of the windshield. Because of this I had my concerns placing mids there but I was pleasantly surprised, nothing harsh, just bliss! Those Dayton's are no joke, they sound great and are definitely a bang for the buck.

I can't wait to give it a proper tune. My mid-bass in the doors and my subs clearly cannot keep up to the mids and tweets as currently set but that is why I doubled the wattage to both the doors and subs so I will get to bump them way up when I tune.

Haha! I knew you would love adding mids to the mix!

 

[troutspinner]

All tuned up! I have to give it a good "road test" and some true listening time and see if there are any minor adjustments I want to make. My initial thoughts on it though have me grinning ear to ear....pun intended! And Wow! does it get loud! I am even holding it back a little right now just so the mids and new sub have a gentler break in period.

The stage is much more forward now and the bass coming out of the doors is huge!, they are an extension to the sub, drums sound very life-like. The Daytons surprised me, the left one needed 2 PEQ corrections and the right only 1 to get them flat. For now, all crossover points are "audible crossovers". As my ears get use to it I may make some changes to more of a personal preference if needed.

Crossovers are;

Subs 30-80
Mid-Bass 80-430
Mids 430-4k
Tweets 4k-20k

All are using L/R 24dB slopes High and Low

Since my previous time alignment was done with a tape measure at first and then altered by ear after, I decided to re-measure all of my speakers and use new T/A values. They could change by ear as well after I get use to the new sound.....???

Can't wait to button up the wiring now. Could be a few weeks til I get back to that, work and fishing are both calling.

 

[012RAMbo]

Very nice website man! Looks very professional. I've always wanted to do some fishing like that, but you won't find that down here in Louisiana lol.

 

[troutspinner]

Golden!

Thank you for the compliment 012RAMbo.

I titled this post "Golden" as that is the name of the file I gave for my DSP settings. I've got it exactly where I want it and it sounds awesome!

I ended up with the following crossovers;

Subs - 30 / 100
Mid-Bass - 100 / 660
Mids - 660 / 4k
Tweets - 4k / 20k

Mid-Bass is a little higher than some other setups I have seen but I think that is just the limitations of the mid to mid-bass I am running. I won't complain though, it really does sound great.

Happy Easter all!

 

[Etroze86]

Nice work and hey as long as you are happy with the results I think the cross overs look good.

 

[Hipps2000]

I ended up with the following crossovers;

Subs - 30 / 100
Mid-Bass - 100 / 660
Mids - 660 / 4k
Tweets - 4k / 20k


Trout spinner are these settings listed from low pass to high pass frequency settings?

I just measured all of my speakers and entered measurements into helix this afternoon. I need to adjust all of the crossover settings next. Currently gains are down low on both amps and eq is flat in the helix as well as on the oem deck. I have Hybrid L1Pros, l3v2, l6v2, and JL 12"tw3 Also have hybrid imagines in rear, they are set to full bandwidth.

Question, should I enter those crossover points you listed? Do you recommend 24db on all as well? I have settings for 0,6,12,18,24. This stuff is totally confusing. I am however getting very familiar with the software.

 

[troutspinner]

Trout spinner are these settings listed from low pass to high pass frequency settings?

Technically the lower number would be the high pass and the higher number would be the low pass. High pass allows anything above that setting through, Low Pass allows anything below that number through.

How my numbers are listed is the range of frequencies the speaker plays.

Question, should I enter those crossover points you listed?

NO! Do not use the crossovers I listed. If you are uncertain about crossover points, always refer to the manufacturer's specs as starting points.

I use "audible" crossovers. When you measure a speaker's response with REW or any other graphing program, you will see where a speaker falls off on both the low and high end. When you lay over another speaker's response at an equally measured dB, the two speakers will cross over each-other on the graph, this is the audible crossover.

Do you recommend 24db on all as well? I have settings for 0,6,12,18,24. This stuff is totally confusing. I am however getting very familiar with the software.

My ears like a L/R 24dB crossover, it is just a preference. After you get your crossover points isolated, shut all your speakers off and just turn 2 on, on one side and have a listen. While listening, adjust the slope between the two, you will hear a difference and can choose your preference. 12dB slopes are a great starting point.

 

[DavidRam]

Great info as usual trout! We need a thread to discuss crossovers. I have no understanding of how to set them, why they are set where they are and how the different settings affect the sound...

 

[Hipps2000]

Cross overs helix pro

Here is the info on speakers
L1pro
Recommended Minimum Crossover Frequency 2,000 Hz at 24 dB/octave highpass
Frequency range 700 Hz – 32,000 Hz, +/- 3 dB

L3v2
Recommended Minimum Crossover Frequency 185 Hz at 24 dB/octave highpass
Frequency range 113 Hz – 18,000 Hz, +/- 3 dB

L6v2
Recommended Minimum Crossover Frequency 45 Hz at 24 dB/octave highpass
Frequency range 49 Hz – 9,500 Hz, +/- 3 dB

What do you recommend to start with?

 

[troutspinner]

What do you recommend to start with?

Using the recommended minimums would be where I would start. The following is what I would enter into my DSP if I were setting it up for me.

L1Pro 2k-32k
L3v2 185-2k
L6v2 50-185

After that, REW!

 

[Etroze86]

The L3v2 I would start a little higher than that just because it doesn't take much for those little guys to see xmax and beyond that. This is also coming from someone that has 150w going to the lol.

 

[BradKnob]

Yea I try to stay away from having speakers playing the absolute minimum freq. mainly bc I have 200 watts for each but just to be safe. That way you can lean on them a lil bit harder.

And a tip: listen to a certain tune for a day or 2 at a time and suddenly, the nuances that you dislike about the sound will show themselves. Like drums sound muddy, cymbs are too bright, vocals are nasaly, etc etc.

 

[Hipps2000]

Thanks everybody! Sounds like a plan to start with. I'll bump all the minimum frequencies up a bit as well. Do you ever over lap any of the speakers? Also seems like many like 24dB on their slopes, both high and low pass side. Am I correct on both sides?

 

[troutspinner]

Thanks everybody! Sounds like a plan to start with. I'll bump all the minimum frequencies up a bit as well. Do you ever over lap any of the speakers? Also seems like many like 24dB on their slopes, both high and low pass side. Am I correct on both sides?

The goal for most people is to send the appropriate range of frequencies to the appropriate speaker. It is however fine to overlap frequencies as it can alter your stage, especially if your speakers are off-axis like my install. If you are going on-axis, I don't know that you get much benefit...definitely a YMMV scenario.

As for slopes and sides, I stay consistent on all speakers and slope both sides the same. I've seen others use different slopes across the board but those others know WAY more than I do so I keep it simple stupid until my knowledge gets to that level.

I've also seen some people not cross the low end of a sub as well as the high end of a tweeter but I see that as asking for trouble. If you have that type of control, use it to protect the speaker. One thing to note, if you are running a ported sub box, 24dB is recommended to protect the sub.

 

[Hipps2000]

Here is the layout within my helix
listed below:
A left sail tweet l1 pro
B right sail tweet l1pro
C left dash mid l3v2
D right dash mid l3v2
E left door low l6v2
F right door low l6v2
G left rear 6x9 Imaginations
H right rear 6x9 imaginations
I 12" sub passenger side JL tw3 Sealed net audio
J12" sub passenger side JL tw3. Sealed net audio

I measured and entered all speakers distance for time alignment I also adjusted phase I believe 0/180 for 6.5" and 6x9s, and set tweets and mids for 11.25

I set the crossovers at :
L1pros 2k-20k as high as low pass goes in helix
L3v2s 285-2k
L6v2 50-285
Sub 30-100
6x9 65-5k

Also, all slopes set at 12dB on both sides for all speakers. Butter setting I believe? Not sure what this is as of yet. Lol

Eq still flat haven't touched, system sounds amazing, much better now that those adjustments have been made. Gains on amps are all low, sub is a tad bit higher. Really need that director remote for ability to adjust + and - on sub.

I also purchased the helix mic kit so my next step will be to hook up and measure. Not sure what to do after any help would be appreciated. Could I take screen shots somehow to share? I could even email my tune file for tweaking of EQ based on my RTA analysis and findings.

Thanks again everyone for getting me started...I am researching and reading as well as becoming more comfortable and knowledgeable within the helix software. Sooooo much control!

 

[troutspinner]

Sounds like some good progress. I will help to the best of my ability as I am sure others will here once you get measuring.

 

[Etroze86]

If I could make a suggestion, the L6 is a stout speaker for sure but 50hz is pretty low, maybe try 65-80 and bring the sub down from 100hz to meet the 6.5. If memory serves me correctly JL does awesome in the 40hz ran but up high they lose a lot of oomph and 30hz for a subsonic filter is awfully high maybe try it down at low low like 15hz or off as in a sealed config it will have a natural roll off and no danger to the sub unless you are in a incredibly oversized box.
That's just my two cents and man keep up the great work, it takes a lot of time to learn how this all works together and it gets easier every day.

 

[autokraftgt]

If I could make a suggestion, the L6 is a stout speaker for sure but 50hz is pretty low, maybe try 65-80 and bring the sub down from 100hz to meet the 6.5. If memory serves me correctly JL does awesome in the 40hz ran but up high they lose a lot of oomph and 30hz for a subsonic filter is awfully high maybe try it down at low low like 15hz or off as in a sealed config it will have a natural roll off and no danger to the sub unless you are in a incredibly oversized box.
That's just my two cents and man keep up the great work, it takes a lot of time to learn how this all works together and it gets easier every day.

I completely agree with E here...50hz is asking a lot from an L6...especially at higher volume levels....id do exactly what E suggested, lower the sub xover to 80hz and have the L6 meet the sub at 80hz

with a sub playing to 100hz and a 6" midbass speaker playing down to 50hz....you may not be able to hear the L6 begging for mercy due to the sub playing as well....good way to damage a midbass without knowing it.....again,,,,at higher volume levels

I had my Esotar 650's crossed at 63hz until i saw them reach xmax when my door panels were off....kinda scary

some manufacturers claim a certain speaker will play down to a certain freq....but that does not mean said speaker will keep its composure and remain comfortable at that lowest freq listed....comfortable speakers sound better than stressed speakers whether its digging too low, or asked to play super high causing beaming

 

[Hipps2000]

Thanks Etroze!!! You are on the money...talked to jl today and they recommend shutting off the high pass with my net ausio sealed .80 cubic foot box. Also low pass could go to 80-100 with a 24dB slope. I will bring up the 6.5" to 65hz and reset the sub and set all slopes to 24dB. This stuff is getting fun! lol...Been out to my truck 20 times with my laptop my wife is thinking I am having an affair lol...

 

[Etroze86]

haha right on, they all think that until you pull them outside and show them what youre doing lol.