Valvetrain noise and metal in oil analysis - 30K miles

[Hemi395]

Anyone have any good videos which demonstrate piston slap sound?

So far I think I've identified exhaust leaks, lifter tick, injection tick, and engine ping, but have yet to hear what piston slap sounds like. I believe I am hearing this in my truck and I've been running redline for over a year with two oil changes now, but still no improvement on that cold start knocking sound.

Here's a couple videos of what a Hemi piston slap sounds like



Mines been doing that for 65k so far with no issues and all UOAs show low wear numbers so I think its pretty benign.

 

[ramffml]

Thanks, that's definitely the sound I'm hearing. I will wait to hear back from Blackstone.

 

[Hemi395]

What the OP is describing honestly sounds more like piston slap than valve train noise. I VERY rarely have any valve train noise on a cold start.

This year I have a block heater installed so when its really cold I plug that in. With that plugged in overnight the coolant temp is usually just under 100⁰ which helps quiet the piston slap noise a bit. Plus I run RL 0w30 in the winter which also helps.

If you're worried about warranty I would stick with the 20wt oil but try a 0w20.

 

[ramffml]

Wow, perfect timing! Just got an email back from Blackstone, redacted some personal info but here it is. Now I have some research to do to dig into all these numbers lol. Based on this report, guess I'm just going to "make like an ostrich" and pretend I don't hear the noise then.

 

[crackerjack1957]

If some have piston slap & others don't can only mean piston & bore tolerances aren't held tight enough on production runs (+/-) or piston skirt

 

[Burla]

Wow, perfect timing! Just got an email back from Blackstone, redacted some personal info but here it is. Now I have some research to do to dig into all these numbers lol. Based on this report, guess I'm just going to "make like an ostrich" and pretend I don't hear the noise then.


View attachment 239092

is this redline and first time using redline?

So it is a young engine, looks fairly average for hemi with young engine and 12k miles on oil. However, if that is 5w30 redline, it does appear there is some mechanical shear with that viscosity. 7 quarts 5w30 redline? no additives? no mixing?

 

[Burla]

if you go to blackstone account they allow you to post without personal information. look for export without personal data.

 

[ramffml]

is this redline and first time using redline?

So it is a young engine, looks fairly average for hemi with young engine and 12k miles on oil. However, if that is 5w30 redline, it does appear there is some mechanical shear with that viscosity. 7 quarts 5w30 redline? no additives? no mixing?

Yes, that was first oil change using redline 5w-30. I didn't change the oil myself so I don't know how much (quarts) they added. It wasn't above "full" on the dipstick. I did not mix anything or use any additives or touch the oil in any way other than the oil guys pouring in the oil during the oil change. I used the royal purple oil filter recommended on this forum as well.

(also, it's 12000 kms on the oil, not miles, not sure if that was a typo or if that changes the situation any)

How do you determine mechanical shear? Are you saying that because of the high amount of copper or is there some other value on the report that points in you that direction? (Just trying to learn)

 

[Burla]

Yes, that was first oil change using redline 5w-30. I didn't change the oil myself so I don't know how much (quarts) they added. It wasn't above "full" on the dipstick. I did not mix anything or use any additives or touch the oil in any way other than the oil guys pouring in the oil during the oil change. I used the royal purple oil filter recommended on this forum as well.

(also, it's 12000 kms on the oil, not miles, not sure if that was a typo or if that changes the situation any)

How do you determine mechanical shear? Are you saying that because of the high amount of copper or is there some other value on the report that points in you that direction? (Just trying to learn)

So first, every uoa on redline is high wear ON THE FIRST RUN, there are at least two possible reasons and theories, one is heavy aw additives that actually create wear and lower wear (it knocks off any sharp edges to new metal), the other is that esters leach metal ions out of metal, we do not know for sure to the why, but I'd expect the next uoa to go way down, so I hope you do another uoa and post it in blackstone thread and let me know when you do. Both theories allow for why the wear numbers tend to go down long term.

Second, it is rare to see 5w30 redline anywhere under 12cSt, you are at 11.27. I can't say for sure, but another theory is the engine is shearing the vii's in the oil. Again, a second uoa will verify what is going on there. It doesn't mean anything at this point, shearing oil is a normal thing, it is just a little rare to see in redline 5w30, but not unheard of. Surely it isn't the end of the world or anything to worry about. I can't wait to see your next uoa, I hope you take blackstones advice and run it for a long interval. pm me if you can remember when you get your next uoa, thanks Burla.

 

[ramffml]

Awesome, appreciate the feedback. I will definitely do another Blackstone and post results, I've been worried about the various engine noises these hemi's put out so my hope is that a constant oil analysis might alert me to problems before they become large and costly; so I would just trade it off at the dealer if the reports start to worry me.

 

[huntergreen]

Thanks for the info. I went to Blackstone's site and could not find instructions on posting the results but I've listed numbers below. FYI, I replaced the dealer installed oil with Mobil 1 5w-20 and a WIX XP filter and the noise did not change (I'd read posts that said that combo reduced/eliminated the noise). I did the oil change myself and did not look through the drain pan (would have but my son left junk in it and I was in hurry and did not clean it).

Iron 28
Copper 49
Molybdunum 175
Boron 74
Magnesium 535
Phosphorus 739
Zinc 883

Used Mobil 1 since the mid eighties. First oil change on my 2011 sport I put in M1, when I started the truck, I thought I must have left the drain plug out. Never heard such a noisy engine. Took wife’s car and purchased penzoil plat and changed oil again. All smooth and quite. All I can say, Is, oil isn’t one size fits all .

 

[Hemi395]

Awesome, appreciate the feedback. I will definitely do another Blackstone and post results, I've been worried about the various engine noises these hemi's put out so my hope is that a constant oil analysis might alert me to problems before they become large and costly; so I would just trade it off at the dealer if the reports start to worry me.

Yeah for that low of mileage thats a good report[emoji106]

Unfortunately Hemis are just noisy motors. Plus they're extreme finicky with what oil they like. I have never had a vehicle with a V8 that is so sensitive to oil, as noisy, and still run strong with no adverse wear as my 5.7 Hemi. And after you have the truck for awhile you'll get to know when another Hemi is idling or starting up lol

 

[Burla]

Used Mobil 1 since the mid eighties. First oil change on my 2011 sport I put in M1, when I started the truck, I thought I must have left the drain plug out. Never heard such a noisy engine. Took wife’s car and purchased penzoil plat and changed oil again. All smooth and quite. All I can say, Is, oil isn’t one size fits all .

now we know there is a play you can make w/o dumping the m1, so lubegard biotech would be the thing. But yeah m1 has left some engines this side of noisy.

 

[68Malibu383]

The going up hill noise happening with engine up to operating temps?
You sure its not an exhaust leak on the notorious exhaust manifold warp/broken bolts?
Some have had good results with making sure truck is level & 1/2 quart overfill on engine oil on start ups.
A good test to see if lifters are bleeding down overnight causing noise would be to hold gas pedal to floor for about 10 secs when starting on cold engine which will pressurize valve train(this scenario will prevent start up) then switch off .....wait another 10 secs & start normally.

I'm about 50 miles from Raleigh........

I should have been more clear. The hill is down, so I"m coasting. Not at all an exhaust noise. Loud tapping. I've built multiple engines, adjusted valves on countless engines, etc. It is valvetrain noise.

Neat trick to spin the engine without starting. I"ll try that in the morning.

 

[huntergreen]

now we know there is a play you can make w/o dumping the m1, so lubegard biotech would be the thing. But yeah m1 has left some engines this side of noisy.

was lubeguard around in 2011 ? At that moment, drain and refill seemed to be the best option. Lol

 

[wakeboardcraze]

I had a similar issue, turned out to be a wiped out cam. Dealer told me multiple times normal operation and no faults (morons can’t diagnose w/ out faults) after fighting and getting every manager in the building involved they finally agreed to tear down and found a wiped camshaft on the one of the mds cylinders. Long story short they voided my warranty because a lift kit and I ended up taking my truck home in peices and finished the job myself with a mds delete kit. I was able to find the issue by turning off cylinder shut down and noticed the noise went away.

 

[68Malibu383]

I had a similar issue, turned out to be a wiped out cam. Dealer told me multiple times normal operation and no faults (morons can’t diagnose w/ out faults) after fighting and getting every manager in the building involved they finally agreed to tear down and found a wiped camshaft on the one of the mds cylinders. Long story short they voided my warranty because a lift kit and I ended up taking my truck home in peices and finished the job myself with a mds delete kit. I was able to find the issue by turning off cylinder shut down and noticed the noise went away.

I did try putting it in towing mode one day when hearing the noise and noise went away. However, it only makes the noise during a narrow RPM range with no load on engine (~1,200 - 1,400 RPM - going down hill is when I hear it). So, I don't know if it downshifted and RPM changed or if turning MDS off did the trick.

I've been trying to record the noise with my phone under the hood but have only been able to get short clips but I'll keep trying. Hard to keep engine in that narrow range without deactivating MDS.

That's my hesitation in taking it to the dealer. I had engine problems with a Ford and bad transmission in my 2015 RAM. Huge PITA with many trips to several different dealers. Ford replaced the engine and FCA replaced the transmission. Still cost me hundreds in rental fees. It should not be like this but the techs either have no idea what they are doing or management/FCA wants to avoid expenses.

 

[Gerald Sheppard]

I have an 08 5.7 Hemi Ram 1500 4x4 with 96K miles on it I bought it about 2 1/2 years ago with 89 k and it would tick 2 or 3 times on start up and quiet down. I have no idea what oil was used or the mileage since changed. I changed it with Amsoil 5-20 and have never heard any noise at all, it is very quiet. IMHO I think it is easier to find than Redline and I have never seen the need for an additive. Not saying Redline is better or worse, but extremely happy with Amsoil. Additionally always buy a premium filter made specifically for synthetic oil. I don't know about Amsoil vs Redline, but have seen tests and Amsoil beats all other synthetics hands down, Mobil One can't hold a candle to Amsoil. My 2 cents.

 

[roadrnnr]

Here's the first analysis I had on my 2011 with 58k miles. I have mostly used Penzoil ultra throughout the past 4-5 years but recently started using lube guard also. The only noise I have in what sounds like either piston slap or a lifter leaking down.

I hear a ticking pinging noise at start up that goes away within 15 seconds of driving when cold. After that throuout the day it never comes back until the engine sits overnight again.

I t seems to be coming from the front below the head

I do have shorty headers on it.

I bought the truck new and I kinda thought I always had it but can't be sure.

Anyways this is what mine looks like to compare

 

[gixxer]

How did you take the sample? If you take a sample when the vehicle has been sitting the counts will be inflated. You need to warm up the engine then take a sample.