Valvetrain noise and metal in oil analysis - 30K miles

[68Malibu383]

I picked up a 2019 Classic Lone Star a few months ago and it currently has just under 30K miles. Some valvetrain noise at start up but not too bad for modern engines. However, significant noise is noted at times. Such as with engine cold, when I pull out of my driveway, I have a 1/8 mile long DOWN hill that is fairly steep, so I coast after getting up to about 20. With the truck going 25 mph and my foot off the gas, engine make very notable valvetrain noise. RPM is between 1,200 - 1,400. If I slow down and get the RPM down, I don't hear noise. If I speed up, I don't hear it much. I've been putting trans in 3rd gear when going down the hill and engine is turning about 1,500 - 1,600 RPM and engine is quiet.

I've tried to record the noise but phone picks up ridiculous things like me breathing/swallowing (not really), but everything but the noise. I may put my phone under the hood.

Anyway, I changed the oil at 2,400 miles from when dealer changed it before I bought truck. I sent oil sample to Blackstone and here is what they said, "Most wear metals are above average
and iron is high enough to earn a mark. It shows more steel wear than we typically find from this type of
engine (on a per-mile basis), and it might be related to the noise you're hearing"

Iron is 30% above lab averages for this engine and copper (bearing material) is 80%!!! above lab averages. Copper is bearing material. Looks like steel coming from valvetrain is acting like sand inside of the engine.

Looking for advice and those who have dealt with dealer warranty with this issue. If they fix the cause of the noise, I've got an engine with loads of wear from the metal fragments. Fun times.

 

[Burla]

What is the oil psi at idle? psi at 2,000 rpm's?

Heavy wear and Hemi's are no unusual thing, neither are noises. What you can do in the immediate future is try some lubegard biotech, and then plan on the next change with redline 5w30.

did redline kill your tick

did lubegard kill your tick

So I doubt anyone can give you an idea on what is wrong, I would like to see the uoa, blackstone allows you to post them without personal info, it is on their page how to do this. Can you tell me the PPM copper and iron? and add aluminum for fun.

These oils are not gimmicls, they are just stout formulas full of the good additives in oil, just more of them, and esters. The only downside is they are so good they "might" mask something that needs to be fixed, but they are also so good the actually fix a flaw of hemi lubrication long proven on the board with longterm uoa's and ending hemi tick. I killed my hemi tick 10 years ago, and many on the board have as well, look at the success rate of fellow ram forum members. The stuff works way better then 50% of the time, a simple oil change can fix a lot of issues with the hemi.

 

[Burla]

Do you see any metal in oil, or just say blackstone sad high ppm? did you dyi oil change this time?

 

[Wild one]

I picked up a 2019 Classic Lone Star a few months ago and it currently has just under 30K miles. Some valvetrain noise at start up but not too bad for modern engines. However, significant noise is noted at times. Such as with engine cold, when I pull out of my driveway, I have a 1/8 mile long hill that is fairly steep. With the truck going 25 mph and my foot off the gas, engine make very notable valvetrain noise. RPM is between 1,200 - 1,400. If I slow down and get the RPM down, I don't hear noise. If I speed up, I don't hear it much. I've been putting trans in 3rd gear when going down the hill and engine is turning about 1,500 - 1,600 RPM and engine is quiet.

I've tried to record the noise but phone picks up ridiculous things like me breathing/swallowing (not really), but everything but the noise. I may put my phone under the hood.

Anyway, I changed the oil at 2,400 miles from when dealer changed it before I bought truck. I sent oil sample to Blackstone and here is what they said, "Most wear metals are above average
and iron is high enough to earn a mark. It shows more steel wear than we typically find from this type of
engine (on a per-mile basis), and it might be related to the noise you're hearing"

Iron is 30% above lab averages for this engine and copper (bearing material) is 80%!!! above lab averages. Copper is bearing material. Looks like steel coming from valvetrain is acting like sand inside of the engine.

Looking for advice and those who have dealt with dealer warranty with this issue. If they fix the cause of the noise, I've got an engine with loads of wear from the metal fragments. Fun times.

If you still have the old oil filter,might not hurt to disect it and look it over close for metal particles in the pleats.

 

[68Malibu383]

Thanks for the info. I went to Blackstone's site and could not find instructions on posting the results but I've listed numbers below. FYI, I replaced the dealer installed oil with Mobil 1 5w-20 and a WIX XP filter and the noise did not change (I'd read posts that said that combo reduced/eliminated the noise). I did the oil change myself and did not look through the drain pan (would have but my son left junk in it and I was in hurry and did not clean it).

Iron 28
Copper 49
Molybdunum 175
Boron 74
Magnesium 535
Phosphorus 739
Zinc 883

 

[Burla]

Thanks for the info. I went to Blackstone's site and could not find instructions on posting the results but I've listed numbers below. FYI, I replaced the dealer installed oil with Mobil 1 5w-20 and a WIX XP filter and the noise did not change (I'd read posts that said that combo reduced/eliminated the noise). I did the oil change myself and did not look through the drain pan (would have but my son left junk in it and I was in hurry and did not clean it).

Iron 28
Copper 49
Molybdunum 175
Boron 74
Magnesium 535
Phosphorus 739
Zinc 883

look at blackstone thread, now those aren't high number for a hemi, about average, but of course we need to know mileage on the oil. More then 5k miles? less? I think mine are least double those numbers, truck has been running great 11 years.

 

[68Malibu383]

look at blackstone thread, now those aren't high number for a hemi, about average, but of course we need to know mileage on the oil. More then 5k miles? less? I think mine are least double those numbers, truck has been running great 11 years.

I forgot to mention miles on oil is only 2,400.

BTW, how many miles on your truck? I put about 22,000 miles per year on my trucks.

 

[Burla]

I forgot to mention miles on oil is only 2,400.

BTW, how many miles on your truck? I put about 22,000 miles per year on my trucks.

I have only 30k miles, I drive less (hardly at all) the last few years. Funny that is really hard on an engine dry starts, and yet my engine is smooth. But, if you read the redline and lubegard thread all of the people who tried it had engines with knocking sounds. Now, if your engine has less then 35k miles, no way are those wear numbers tragic, the engine is young and it's a hemi. My copper was 188ppm, forget the mileage. See if you can get moly treatment lubegard biotech locally, and read the amazon reviews. So redline is just like lubegard plus steroids, the only way to describe it. They simply coat metal that is in perpendicular forces, it is about the science, not the brand.

read moly basics

Plus esters and pao base oils, those two products are built with the best known bases for current shelf oils, and they are rare, not many companies have a commitment like this as api regs wont allow much of it. Bottom line read what ram forum members who have tried it say, there is no doubt in their effectiveness or %. It isn't 100% but it seams to be a better % then people who actually change lifters, in many cases those still tick. But if you have bearing issue these products likely wont help. If it is lifters, you have a very good chance they will. let me know those psi's, that should tell you if the bearing issue is severe or not.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

Please listen to Burla and put Redline 5w30w and 15 oz. of lube guard Biotech and your Noisy engine should quiet down, and depending where you live, these engines are know for piston slap at start up because of the short piston skirts, I put redline 0w20w in mine because of the severe weather here and it quieted down considerably, also your results might take a while to quiet down letting the moly coat internal engine parts.

 

[Burla]

Good point, if you are in cold place that sees weather in the 20's, then try 0w30 redline instead, or even 0w20. We have had good luck with 0w30 keeping hemi tick away but still good with piston slap. Yes the moly plate takes time, maybe around 500 to 1,000 miles for best results.

 

[68Malibu383]

Please listen to Burla and put Redline 5w30w and 15 oz. of lube guard Biotech and your Noisy engine should quiet down, and depending where you live, these engines are know for piston slap at start up because of the short piston skirts, I put redline 0w20w in mine because of the severe weather here and it quieted down considerably, also your results might take a while to quiet down letting the moly coat internal engine parts.

Good point about piston slap but I live around Raleigh, NC and this winter has not been very cold. Plus, I keep the truck in the garage and it stays about 50 degrees in there. Also, I know the sound of piston slap and my noise is not pistons (my parents had Volvo 240s when I grew up and those had tremendous piston slap when cold). This is definitely valvetrain noise.

I'll try the redline and lubegard but I'd be shocked if that cured the problem. This is a significant mechanical issue I'll buy asap and will post back.

 

[68Malibu383]

Good point, if you are in cold place that sees weather in the 20's, then try 0w30 redline instead, or even 0w20. We have had good luck with 0w30 keeping hemi tick away but still good with piston slap. Yes the moly plate takes time, maybe around 500 to 1,000 miles for best results.

Would the 5w-30 void the warranty? Mfg calls for 5w-20.

 

[Wild one]

Would the 5w-30 void the warranty? Mfg calls for 5w-20.

Read the note at the bottom,this is from the 700 page printed manual for my 14,that you won't have.

 

[EdGs]

Read the note at the bottom,this is from the 700 page printed manual for my 14,that you won't have.

View attachment 238908

The only thing my '15 manual has is this:



It is the same 5.7L engine in the 1500/2500/3500, so what gives?

I may try 5w-30 next change just for ***** and giggles.

 

[ramffml]

Anyone have any good videos which demonstrate piston slap sound?

So far I think I've identified exhaust leaks, lifter tick, injection tick, and engine ping, but have yet to hear what piston slap sounds like. I believe I am hearing this in my truck and I've been running redline for over a year with two oil changes now, but still no improvement on that cold start knocking sound.

 

[Burla]

Anyone have any good videos which demonstrate piston slap sound?

So far I think I've identified exhaust leaks, lifter tick, injection tick, and engine ping, but have yet to hear what piston slap sounds like. I believe I am hearing this in my truck and I've been running redline for over a year with two oil changes now, but still no improvement on that cold start knocking sound.

If it only happens when cold, it is piston slap, sounds like a knock. Which redline are you on, and what temps have you heard this slapping? Did you have hemi tick prior to this piston slap? There is nothing you can do except run a thinner oil, we found that is most cases this does help a bit, but when it is cold the metal shrinks, so sadly it can get worse as tolerances widen. Maybe get an engine block heater, or oil sump heater as a second play.

 

[ramffml]

If it only happens when cold, it is piston slap, sounds like a knock. Which redline are you on, and what temps have you heard this slapping? Did you have hemi tick prior to this piston slap? There is nothing you can do except run a thinner oil, we found that is most cases this does help a bit, but when it is cold the metal shrinks, so sadly it can get worse as tolerances widen. Maybe get an engine block heater, or oil sump heater as a second play.

Appreciate the reply!

In my opinion, my hemi has always been noisy from day 1 (I bought it new). I've heard various noises and was not able to identify which noise was which (lifters/exhaust etc). So I just started researching and found these threads here about running redline to quiet the tick and gave it a shot.

I don't think I have lifter tick now, not sure before. It is definitely only when cold. Seems to be slightly better this past week after switching from 5w-30 to 5w-20 though I can't swear to that. Temperatures are about -5 C, so just below freezing. But I think I heard it in summer too.

I've sent off my 5w-30 to Blackstone but will probably take a while to hear back due to shipping speed etc, I'm in Ontario.

 

[Wild one]

The only thing my '15 manual has is this:
View attachment 239038


It is the same 5.7L engine in the 1500/2500/3500, so what gives?

I may try 5w-30 next change just for ***** and giggles.

That's from the 700 page printed manual that you had to phone FCA to get Ed.From what i've gathered up you guys south of the border can't get that manual anymore,but it's still available for us Canucks,as i ordered it for my wifes 2019 Challenger 1320 and got it about a week after ordering it.It's a thick printed manual similiar to what you used to get years and years ago when you bought a new vehicle,before manufacture's went cheap,lol

 

[Burla]

Appreciate the reply!

In my opinion, my hemi has always been noisy from day 1 (I bought it new). I've heard various noises and was not able to identify which noise was which (lifters/exhaust etc). So I just started researching and found these threads here about running redline to quiet the tick and gave it a shot.

I don't think I have lifter tick now, not sure before. It is definitely only when cold. Seems to be slightly better this past week after switching from 5w-30 to 5w-20 though I can't swear to that. Temperatures are about -5 C, so just below freezing. But I think I heard it in summer too.

I've sent off my 5w-30 to Blackstone but will probably take a while to hear back due to shipping speed etc, I'm in Ontario.

look for aluminum numbers in the uoa.

You have a big metal block and a small piston, metal shrinks in the cold, the only way to stop it is prevent the metal from getting cold, IE garage or heat blanket, engine block heater, sump magnet heater blanket. See if calling @Hemi395 works, the guy has led the way on a lot of testing these hemi's, and this issue for sure. Corey can you add anything to the convo?

 

[crackerjack1957]

I picked up a 2019 Classic Lone Star a few months ago and it currently has just under 30K miles. Some valvetrain noise at start up but not too bad for modern engines. However, significant noise is noted at times. Such as with engine cold, when I pull out of my driveway, I have a 1/8 mile long hill that is fairly steep. With the truck going 25 mph and my foot off the gas, engine make very notable valvetrain noise. RPM is between 1,200 - 1,400. If I slow down and get the RPM down, I don't hear noise. If I speed up, I don't hear it much. I've been putting trans in 3rd gear when going down the hill and engine is turning about 1,500 - 1,600 RPM and engine is quiet.

I've tried to record the noise but phone picks up ridiculous things like me breathing/swallowing (not really), but everything but the noise. I may put my phone under the hood.

Anyway, I changed the oil at 2,400 miles from when dealer changed it before I bought truck. I sent oil sample to Blackstone and here is what they said, "Most wear metals are above average
and iron is high enough to earn a mark. It shows more steel wear than we typically find from this type of
engine (on a per-mile basis), and it might be related to the noise you're hearing"

Iron is 30% above lab averages for this engine and copper (bearing material) is 80%!!! above lab averages. Copper is bearing material. Looks like steel coming from valvetrain is acting like sand inside of the engine.

Looking for advice and those who have dealt with dealer warranty with this issue. If they fix the cause of the noise, I've got an engine with loads of wear from the metal fragments. Fun times.

The going up hill noise happening with engine up to operating temps?
You sure its not an exhaust leak on the notorious exhaust manifold warp/broken bolts?
Some have had good results with making sure truck is level & 1/2 quart overfill on engine oil on start ups.
A good test to see if lifters are bleeding down overnight causing noise would be to hold gas pedal to floor for about 10 secs when starting on cold engine which will pressurize valve train(this scenario will prevent start up) then switch off .....wait another 10 secs & start normally.

I'm about 50 miles from Raleigh........