A KEY question

Shiva said:

that's a obvious ripoff. Thanks for viewing-DeWayne

Ok dealers may not get second key from previous owner or auction. Fine I'm good with that.
However, if they are making thousands of $ reselling the vehicle to me they can damn well take $30 their cost for the key out of their pocket. Takes 10 minutes of their time to program it.

Supply me a second key or keep the truck. Lost sale is not something they want just because you told them this.

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Dealer cost for the keys isn’t $30. Last time I checked a key fob that was $275, dealer cost like $230. It’s not the dealer making a killing off that one, it’s whoever is making and supplying the keys.

JoeCo said:

Depends on the perspective and how important second key is to you. If the cars old and making a duplicate key is cheap and easy, that's obviously no big deal. However, when I buy a 2017 or 2018 truck for 30-40k, I demand to get both sets. I'm not paying that much to immediately pay more (much much more compared to old keys) to obtain a second key for it. Or if having a second key doesn't matter to you, I guess that would work but I need the second set. I don't necessarily think it's a big conspiracy, but I'm not going to give any dealer the benefit of the doubt either (and not sure why anyone would).

Just got my 17 a few months ago, before I went in for a test drive I inquired about that and they said they had both sets, I still didn't hand over my spare for my trade til I had both new sets in my hands.

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It’s easy to tell them you want a second key. They may initially balk at it but when you shake their hand and head for the door, chances are you’ll get your second key. I try not to buy myself used vehicles anymore unless it’s a secondary vehicle. When I bought my step-daughter a 2015 Mini after hers got totaled, I simply asked for a second key and no issue or argument, and no need to “demand” anything. It’s a simple conversation that if you go into acting like an adult, you’ll have a better chance of getting the outcome you expect instead of making “demands”.

And yes, the used cars I did not get a second key for we’re older cars bought many years ago. Only once did I ever have a second key made for one of them because I just never saw the need. I was younger and didn’t care. Now I will buy new, or simply ask for a second key before signing anything.

Tach_tech said:

Dealer cost for the keys isn’t $30. Last time I checked a key fob that was $275, dealer cost like $230. It’s not the dealer making a killing off that one, it’s whoever is making and supplying the keys.

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Strange. I bought 2 keys direct from Stratec the manufacturer for my Wrangler shipped for $75 thereabout.
Was 7 yrs ago. Far cry from $230 for only 1 at that. Maybe Daimler/Fiat Chrysler buying hundreds of thousands of them a year don't get as good a deal as Joe off the street.
Or maybe Chrysler corporate head office jacks up the dealer cost and gets the guys at the local parts or service desks get the bad rap.
Hell I bought a complete 7 pin factory trailer wiring harness from the dealer for less than $230 Canadian.
But then come to think of it life won't come to an end with no trailer lights but OH you say you need your truck to open up and drive....well that's another story.
Let's face it. Key fob = 1/2 ounce plastic housing + $1 watch battery + garage door opener remote circuit board with a $1 RFD chip for the in dash sensor to recognize for ignition on.
I should be buying keys from the manufacturer and supplying the dealers. Better than a real job.

Shiva said:

Strange. I bought 2 keys direct from Stratec the manufacturer for my Wrangler shipped for $75 thereabout.
Was 7 yrs ago. Far cry from $230. Maybe Daimler/Fiat Chrysler buying hundreds of thousands of them a year don't get as good a deal as Joe off the street.
Or maybe Chrysler corporate head office jacks up the dealer cost and gets the guys at the local parts or service desks get the bad rap.
Hell I bought a complete 7 pin factory trailer wiring harness from the dealer for less than $230 Canadian.
But then come to think of it life won't come to an end with no trailer lights but OH you say you need your truck to open up and drive....well that's another story.
Let's face it. Key fob = 1/2 ounce plastic housing + $1 watch battery + garage door opener remote circuit board with a $1 RFD chip for the in dash sensor to recognize for ignition on.

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7 years ago was a big difference in prices for a lot of things. They were very very easy to program 7 years ago now it’s all security access etc to program a damn FOB


—2018 Ram 1500—

Lawsuit11 said:

7 years ago was a big difference in prices for a lot of things. They were very very easy to program 7 years ago now it’s all security access etc to program a damn FOB


—2018 Ram 1500—

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That's why my local locksmith can program from 1 original key.
And a quart of milk just cost me $42

Shiva said:

Strange. I bought 2 keys direct from Stratec the manufacturer for my Wrangler shipped for $75 thereabout.
Was 7 yrs ago. Far cry from $230 for only 1 at that. Maybe Daimler/Fiat Chrysler buying hundreds of thousands of them a year don't get as good a deal as Joe off the street.
Or maybe Chrysler corporate head office jacks up the dealer cost and gets the guys at the local parts or service desks get the bad rap.
Hell I bought a complete 7 pin factory trailer wiring harness from the dealer for less than $230 Canadian.
But then come to think of it life won't come to an end with no trailer lights but OH you say you need your truck to open up and drive....well that's another story.
Let's face it. Key fob = 1/2 ounce plastic housing + $1 watch battery + garage door opener remote circuit board with a $1 RFD chip for the in dash sensor to recognize for ignition on.
I should be buying keys from the manufacturer and supplying the dealers. Better than a real job.

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Your wrangler also uses a much older style of fob. Those aren’t nearly as expensive. It’s when you get into the vehicles that are are push button start and multiple buttons/functions beyond the basic lock/unlock.

Tach_tech said:

Your wrangler also uses a much older style of fob. Those aren’t nearly as expensive. It’s when you get into the vehicles that are are push button start and multiple buttons/functions beyond the basic lock/unlock.

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Open both fobs up and compare the printed circuit boards. Miniscule variations.
What your talking about is in the programs within the Body Control Module (computer).
I'm talking cost of key hardware in my posts.
A rotating key switch for ignition is more expensive to make than a push button but less Rocket Manish. Both use the same RFD chip in the fob.

Shiva said:

Open both fobs up and compare the printed circuit boards. Miniscule variations.
What your talking about is in the programs within the Body Control Module (computer).
I'm talking cost of key hardware in my posts.
A rotating key switch for ignition is more expensive to make than a push button but less Rocket Manish. Both use the same RFD chip in the fob.

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I’m not saying the parts used inside the key like the circuit board are somehow magically different. I’m saying the fobs with the extra functions and are a push button start cost significantly more than compared to a key like your wrangler. A lot of them also have hidden keys inside them which obviously adds extra manufacturing cost. I don’t disagree they are ridiculously expensive. I can look up what the dealer is paying for the fobs vs what they’re selling them for, and there’s quite a difference between the old style FOBIK like your wrangler and the newer FOBs.

There’s a lot more that goes into a push button start vehicle than just the push button. It’s much cheaper to just use a tumbler and ignition switch that they’ve been using for years and years.

There’s the button itself, which is more than just a simple button(KIN module), it’s also used as a backup system if there is any RF interference, the RF hub module that receives and interprets the RF signals. The BCM/TIPM depending on system, doesn’t receive signals from the key itself, they’re bussed messages from the RF hub or WCM if it’s the older system. Theres also all the individual antennas. The door handles as well if it has passive entry.

bigred90gt said:

It’s easy to tell them you want a second key. They may initially balk at it but when you shake their hand and head for the door, chances are you’ll get your second key. I try not to buy myself used vehicles anymore unless it’s a secondary vehicle. When I bought my step-daughter a 2015 Mini after hers got totaled, I simply asked for a second key and no issue or argument, and no need to “demand” anything. It’s a simple conversation that if you go into acting like an adult, you’ll have a better chance of getting the outcome you expect instead of making “demands”.

And yes, the used cars I did not get a second key for we’re older cars bought many years ago. Only once did I ever have a second key made for one of them because I just never saw the need. I was younger and didn’t care. Now I will buy new, or simply ask for a second key before signing anything.

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Haha oh I don't go in swinging, I'm not that guy at all. However, I'm definitely difficult to deal with because I know much more about the truck than any dealer I've ever bought a ram from (not hard to do, and I look at build sheet/car fax and all that before I make contact) and I fight really hard on price. So generally, they escalate things and I'm more than happy to return it. My last ram I bought (my 3rd) things actually stayed very friendly the whole time, and I did inquire about the second key before making the trip for it, and they held up their end of the deal and so did I. So I can be reasonable, just generally my experiences with dealers has been less than great, but when you're very picky on what you want, you have to deal with it. Either way I'm 3/3 on getting the backup set, 2 were a little nasty and one was nice. Whatever works for ya in any given situation.

unfortunately, that's a very common issue. most people go into a dealer to trade in their vehicle without thinking of the other keys. i see it allll day long.i am a locksmith and have programmed several keys for many chrysler products. it is a very simple straight forward process and if you ask someone with the right equipment, it is a simple step in the programming to erase the old keys from the memory and add in only the ones you have. the issue of pin codes is easily bypassed with the right equipment as well. i know we get keyfobs out the door for about 1/2 of what the dealer charges. we sell all of our fobs for $160, which includes programming. i suppose that may vary with the market.

more to the point though, i wouldn't spend time chasing loose ends that aren't there... as was already said here, people go into dealerships "looking around" and leave with a new car. not to often people actually bring both, or all the keys they have when they are just looking. the only people i have ever heard of keeping an extra key for customers, are title loan companies, or little mom and pop car lots that do in house financing.

Just to share a couple things several folks have offered here so far.

- it is very common for a used car to only have one key, as many have offered - someone rolled into the dealership on a whim, and left with a new vehicle, leaving their trade in with one key....it most likely is not a conspiracy by that dealership in any way - I strongly urge you to try your best to get the dealership to work with you and your brother in getting a second key fob, BUT, be prepared to be disappointed with them on this item.....

On this subject, my wife and I had been thinking about replacing her car for several months, and so, back in March, on a Sunday whim, we decided to go car shopping, and we ended up coming home with a new car, and trading in her car, with only one key on hand......BUT - we went back the following week, and dropped off the second key.....probably a rare occurrence.

- With a used vehicle - CPO or whatever, ALWAYS - ask about and deal with 2nd keys, spare tires, floor mats, undercoating, vehicle detailing, or generally anything that should be included or that you want to be included with the vehicle BEFORE the deal is done, and get it in writing if they can’t produce it on or before you complete the deal, and be ready to walk away if the dealership isn’t prepared to make it happen for you. Trying to deal with this stuff after the deal is done will probably just give you heartburn and make you angry, unless the dealership is 1 in a million.....

- I purchased a new to me truck - my current 2018 Ram CCSB Sport - a couple months ago, and knew going into the deal it only had one key included. In my case I chose to work the deal for more of a discount and a couple other items, and get myself a new secondary key fob later on. One dealer quoted me $300 ish for the new fob, but a second dealer worked with me and got me out the door for under $200. I have replaced or purchased extra keys and key fobs in the last few years, for my 2005 Dodge, and my 2009 Silverado, both relatively inexpensively, both now gone down the road to new owners with 2-3 keys and fobs.....these new generation key fobs are significantly more expensive.

By the way, on the subject of adding or replacing a newer Ram key fob (and the emergency door key in it), I did try to save some money by buying the new Ram fob on Amazon ($49.95), unfortunately it would not program to my truck, so I ended up returning that, and buying the fob at my friendly dealership, and they worked with me on the price and programming.

One last thought to share - the new ram fob and emergency key inside the fob are sold by FCA as separate items - yes I know, that caught me off guard as well - so, if you are getting a second or spare for your Ram (or FCA vehicle) - don’t be surprised when the dealership quotes you the price for the fob and the new key blank that goes in the fob, as separate items......

Lawsuit11 said:

That’s what my dealer said also when checking the RF hub it said still had two keys connected to it. I thought it might be a way of getting your vehicle repo if you didn’t pay cause they have the key and can just drive away with it.


—2018 Ram 1500—

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Good point,though me and my brother paid trucks in full upon closing the deals.
Easier to shuffle personal funds than pay loans.

when a dealer buys a truck a auction they only get one key. that is why you only get one key.

Honestly, the people that traded in the truck probably still have them at home. You could have made the dealer give you one. I had that happen when I bought my ‘15. After we were signing papers I asked for it. They said there wasn’t one so I told them to keep it or get me a 2nd key. After I spoke with the “manager” I got my key.

When I was looking for a used truck (2017) on autotrader ,one of the questions I asked was if it had 2 keys . Ironically my wife and I only have one key each to our cars (she lost one of hers and mine got destroyed by falling out of my pocket while mowing the lawn,lol). so whoever buys them gets one key...

One set of keys for a almost new truck, I would not be signing the bill of sale at the price of these. People that trade in trucks that can't be bothered to take in the second key, should have the price knocked off the trade in, and the sales man should make a effort get them in

Marshall said:

One set of keys for a almost new truck, I would not be signing the bill of sale at the price of these. People that trade in trucks that can't be bothered to take in the second key, should have the price knocked off the trade in, and the sales man should make a effort get them in

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I believe it should go both ways. It’s understandable that vehicles get traded in all the time with only one key, but if someone is going to demand a second key for the sale, they should be trading in the second key for their trade in. I don’t think I would have the audacity to demand a second fob knowing that I only have one fob with my trade-in.

I had a situation that was similar when I purchased a Jeep Once. The dealer could not locate the second key. I told them that if they could not find the second key then they would have to replace the module and provide me with two keys.

But, I was willing to walk from the deal and they knew it. They replaced the entire system and provided two new keys.

I kept the one fob they had and made the use the valet key. That way I was able to confirm that the old fob no longer worked on the vehicle.

They originally said no, but when I got up to leave they quickly changed their position.

I know it doesn’t help you at this point, but sometimes you just have to be willing to walk.

Whenever I have traded in a vehicle I was asked to bring in the second set of keys if not on me. But seems to me for what they charge for these trucks a dealership could provide a second set, not like they have to pay retail for them.
I bought a spare key & fob for a 2014 I traded in, still sitting in my drawer, never had the key cut or the fob programmed.

Shiva said:

Strange. I bought 2 keys direct from Stratec the manufacturer for my Wrangler shipped for $75 thereabout.
Was 7 yrs ago. Far cry from $230 for only 1 at that. Maybe Daimler/Fiat Chrysler buying hundreds of thousands of them a year don't get as good a deal as Joe off the street.
Or maybe Chrysler corporate head office jacks up the dealer cost and gets the guys at the local parts or service desks get the bad rap.
Hell I bought a complete 7 pin factory trailer wiring harness from the dealer for less than $230 Canadian.
But then come to think of it life won't come to an end with no trailer lights but OH you say you need your truck to open up and drive....well that's another story.
Let's face it. Key fob = 1/2 ounce plastic housing + $1 watch battery + garage door opener remote circuit board with a $1 RFD chip for the in dash sensor to recognize for ignition on.
I should be buying keys from the manufacturer and supplying the dealers. Better than a real job.

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Just curious. I looked up Stratec and found biomedical stuff. Other variations no help. Where did you buy the keys you referred to in your post?