110k Miles- Trans Fluid change?

[bbentz]

So i'm a bit torn here. I've recently picked up a 2017 Ram Big Horn with the Hemi and ZF 8hp70 of course. The truck has 110k miles on it, and I do not believe the trans fluid/filter has ever been changed. (Not on service records). I know flushing the trans at this mileage probably wouldn't be a great idea so I wont do that - but i'm wondering if I should change the fluid and filter? Or should I leave it alone and hope it lasts a long time? Anyone with 8 speed knowledge help me out please, Thanks!

 

[U&A]

Personally

I would change EVERY fluid and filter in the truck.


Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[indept]

Yes, change it. The ZF fluid is very expensive but there are cheaper price alternatives. Another poster on this forum, Verndiesel, has many hundreds of thousands of mile on his with just regular changes.

 

[PoMansRam]

An aftermarket pan/filter assembly can be had by mail order for around $40 and I know it's not a popular concept, but there are ATFs available that are suitable for ZF8 use. One is Valvoline maxlife ATF. I personally wouldn't hesitate to use either.

 

[NETim]

Amzoil recommends this for the ZF:

https://www.amsoil.com/p/torque-dri...mission-fluid-atd/?code=ATD1G-EA#pills-home_2

 

[mtofell]

Here's a completely wild and off the wall idea.... what does the manual call for? The tranny in my 2500 doesn't call for a tranny fluid change until 120K.

I get the feeling some of you guys make excuses to go hang out in the garage

 

[Tim Garceau]

Here's a completely wild and off the wall idea.... what does the manual call for? The tranny in my 2500 doesn't call for a tranny fluid change until 120K.

I get the feeling some of you guys make excuses to go hang out in the garage

*ZF produces the transmission and recommends a filter and fluid change well before that.

YOU can follow directions from an assembly team in Mexico or the actual German manufacturer of the best transmission of the last decade.

 

[mtofell]

*ZF produces the transmission and recommends a filter and fluid change well before that.

YOU can follow directions from an assembly team in Mexico or the actual German manufacturer of the best transmission of the last decade.

Fair enough - my point wasn't to start a race war over tranny fluid. It was to point out that the best information comes from the manufacturers of products. Not one of the 4 replies seemed even remotely aware of the concept.... rather the advice was to just "change EVERY fluid in the truck." Hence my comment about looking for excuses to spend time in the garage.

 

[kurek]

ZF (the transmission manufacturer) says 80 to 120k kilometers.

 

[indept]

Fair enough - my point wasn't to start a race war over tranny fluid. It was to point out that the best information comes from the manufacturers of products. Not one of the 4 replies seemed even remotely aware of the concept.... rather the advice was to just "change EVERY fluid in the truck." Hence my comment about looking for excuses to spend time in the garage.

From what I've read, ZF doesn't make it, Fca builds them to ZFs specs and Fca says it's a lifetime fluid, no need to change. And that is a correct statement by Fca, when the trans ***** the bed it's time for new fluid along with the new tranny..... so it's a good idea to change the trans fluid since its not a fully synthetic fluid from the factory.

And it's not bad advice to change all fluids on a new to the OP truck with 110k miles and no idea how the last owner treated the truck.

 

[WY-Dave]

Here's a completely wild and off the wall idea.... what does the manual call for? The tranny in my 2500 doesn't call for a tranny fluid change until 120K.

I get the feeling some of you guys make excuses to go hang out in the garage

Beat me to it

 

[62Blazer]

*ZF produces the transmission and recommends a filter and fluid change well before that.

YOU can follow directions from an assembly team in Mexico or the actual German manufacturer of the best transmission of the last decade.

I really hope you don't believe that the "assembly team in Mexico" are the ones who wrote the owner's manual and came up with the service intervals. While I don't recommend going with the lifetime fluid (i.e. never changing it.....assuming that is what the owner's manual states) recommendation I will also say that is not some random number or comment FCA decided to throw out there. I can also say that is a car/truck manufacturer buys a transmission from another company they work very closely with that company on those items. Not like FCA goes to some third party parts dealer like RockAuto or Jasper and says "hey, sell me 400,000 of these transmissions" and never talk to the actual transmission manufacturer. Most of the time the transmissions are either specifically built for these trucks, or they are modified or revised from an existing design, to work specifically with the vehicle they are designing. Again, they don't go to store and randomly buy some transmission off the shelf.

Anyway, back to the OP. I would recommend changing the fluid and there is no problem flushing it. The whole thing about flushing the transmission causing issues is a complete myth. There is absolutely nothing that flushing the transmission does that causes it to fail. The myth started because a lot of people wait until the transmission starts having issues and then do a flush in hopes of "fixing" it. A short period after the flush is completed the transmission dies and they blame it on the flush, even though it would have died anyway.

 

[Tim Garceau]

The Gen 4 and 5 half ton extended cab gassers are made now in a recently built facility in Sterling Heights. Don't know if it's much of an upgrade compared to the lines in Saltillo where your HD was thrown together however.

The best decision Dodge made was to partner with ZF for the cars, now Stellantis or whatever is nothing but a sinking ship. Ram evidently does not care about what happens after warranty so why would they put servicing the most expensive component of the vehicle as a PM? Just like they won't own up to pinching pennies on hydraulic lifters that has cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to their own consumers.

Sales were decent(margins not good) because of monster incentives while still producing the last gen models in 2019. Now reality set in along with a little virus and they're back to being the American ****. TMMI(TX) will be selling more 1/2 tons after 2022 with the way U.S. owned auto manufacturing is heading.

https://moparinsiders.com/saltillo-truck-assembly-plant-goes-back-to-work-building-ram-trucks/

 

[PoMansRam]

Doesn't ZF recommend a first fluid change at 60K miles if you ask them?

I know I was just about to order a $40 pan kit and some Maxlife ATF for my 2017 Ram 1500 that was at 58K miles, but shiny new disorder took over and I made the poor financial choice of trading her in for a lightly used 2019 Ram 1500 with under 15K miles on it.

 

[Tim Garceau]

Maybe all the transmission needed from Ram was their "special" Mopar $30/qt fluid to make it a lifetime fill.

 

[kurek]

While I don't recommend going with the lifetime fluid (i.e. never changing it.....assuming that is what the owner's manual states) recommendation I will also say that is not some random number or comment FCA decided to throw out there.

I'm certain that the lifetime statement by Ram is based on a calculation that (essentially) 100% of the vehicles will outlast the initial warranty duration without any transmission service and some qualifying percent (95% or whatever) will last at least 150k miles, or some equivalent benchmark of total expected lifetime. After that, they want to consider that the vehicle has done its duty and should be retired.

So there is probably a common life cycle for this, owner #1 has the vehicle for 3-5 years then trades it in, a second owner/owners have it for the middle part of its life then sell or trade it when it starts having some minor problems, then the third/final owner has it and probably bought it because it was inexpensive and used up, and can't afford to drop another few hundred dollars on catch-up maintenance, eventually the transmission dies. Maybe at 151k miles, maybe at 250k miles.. anybody's guess. That's not bad for a transmission that never got any maintenance.

But what's even cooler is making it last twice that long by maintaining it.

 

[62Blazer]

I'm certain that the lifetime statement by Ram is based on a calculation that (essentially) 100% of the vehicles will outlast the initial warranty duration without any transmission service and some qualifying percent (95% or whatever) will last at least 150k miles, or some equivalent benchmark of total expected lifetime. After that, they want to consider that the vehicle has done its duty and should be retired.

So there is probably a common life cycle for this, owner #1 has the vehicle for 3-5 years then trades it in, a second owner/owners have it for the middle part of its life then sell or trade it when it starts having some minor problems, then the third/final owner has it and probably bought it because it was inexpensive and used up, and can't afford to drop another few hundred dollars on catch-up maintenance, eventually the transmission dies. Maybe at 151k miles, maybe at 250k miles.. anybody's guess. That's not bad for a transmission that never got any maintenance.

But what's even cooler is making it last twice that long by maintaining it.

The basic logic mentioned above definitely plays a part in the maintenance intervals. Nowadays performing very little to no maintenance is a big selling point to many people....same reason that grease zerks are rare. Many people don't want to perform maintenance on their vehicles, or they simply won't perform maintenance if they had to and now you are dealing with a warranty claim and fight with them. The overall cost and profit margins on a vehicle play a role also. You can always design parts to last ***,*** miles but that also increases the cost of the vehicle.

 

[Hootbro]

The basic logic mentioned above definitely plays a part in the maintenance intervals. Nowadays performing very little to no maintenance is a big selling point to many people....same reason that grease zerks are rare. Many people don't want to perform maintenance on their vehicles, or they simply won't perform maintenance if they had to and now you are dealing with a warranty claim and fight with them. The overall cost and profit margins on a vehicle play a role also. You can always design parts to last ***,*** miles but that also increases the cost of the vehicle.

Do not ask me to find it, but read a pretty good article years back that laid out the case and history of "Lubed for Life" joints that traditionally had been serviced by zerk fittings. The Japanese makes started the trend in the 1980's followed by the domestic makes pretty shortly after that. The Japanese had found that most traditional zerk fitting greased service joint prematurely fail due to either incompatible grease type or over service and blowing the boots out and now allowing contaminants in to wear the joints even faster. Over a given control group, it was very rare to find an extended life and properly serviced zerk greased joint.

A lot people look at lubed for life joints as a cheapening of the product but that is farther from the truth over a whole running average of the type.

 

[Burla]

So i'm a bit torn here. I've recently picked up a 2017 Ram Big Horn with the Hemi and ZF 8hp70 of course. The truck has 110k miles on it, and I do not believe the trans fluid/filter has ever been changed. (Not on service records). I know flushing the trans at this mileage probably wouldn't be a great idea so I wont do that - but i'm wondering if I should change the fluid and filter? Or should I leave it alone and hope it lasts a long time? Anyone with 8 speed knowledge help me out please, Thanks!

Next time you go on a long trip log the trans temp off the evic. If your zf is constantly in the over 200f range, I'd change it for sure. The additives in transmission fluid would show up in a uoa, but they are denatured overtime and use. The zf is however pita transmission to service. If you do it, you can get a kit, this one is 245, zf fluid plus trans pan/filter. I could make a case for just being exact with fluid removal and put back exactly what you take out and leave pan on. Research what it takes to set the level of the fluid before doing it. this is just to check the fluid...

 

[tidefan1967]

I really do miss having Zerks on the newer stuff. My old 2001 Silverado is still going strong at 210K miles with all of its original front end parts, minus new shocks and one set of sealed hubs of course. Everything else has a Zerk on it. Have you seen how much grease they put in non serviceable bearings? A thin stream is all. I usually remove, clean and repack non serviceable bearings on all my small equipment equipment or they will wear out in no time at all.