2015 Pentastar V6 Towing [SUPERCHARGER SUCCESS!]

[Robeffy]

Yup, pretty sure you will regret not having a stock baseline, hard to compare against.

A lot of the fun is in the process, the end result is icing on the cake. Take your time.

 

[Fishstickz]

Is that an audrino chip or something else? I’m considering putting some sort of little audrino/raspberry pi in my truck mainly to run all my LEDs from my phone via bluetooth. theres not any good controllers for 8+ separate LED circuits, much less any controllers capable of running addressable LEDs, so I’m gonna just build and program my own. If your OBD connection works well I may consider doing some of that as well


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[engineering]

Is that an audrino chip or something else? I’m considering putting some sort of little audrino/raspberry pi in my truck mainly to run all my LEDs from my phone via bluetooth. theres not any good controllers for 8+ separate LED circuits, much less any controllers capable of running addressable LEDs, so I’m gonna just build and program my own. If your OBD connection works well I may consider doing some of that as well


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The little board on the right is the 'Feather M0 Adalogger' from adafruit.com. It has good support in Arduino IDE but so far I am trying to do this in MicroPython which is also supported.

This board should do a good job of controlling NeoPixel devices if you want an LED show. For high current (above a a few single LED's) Adafruit has a big selection of LED controllers that this can interface with and sync the LEDs to events on the OBD2 bus.

For example, when you floor the throttle, it can turn all the LED's to red. Fun stuff - not just clearing DTC's (check engine light)

 

[alpinegreenneon]

Yes - that is the "TPS" Throttle Position Sensor
That along with the Mass Air Flow sensor can offer some useful information about the load vs % of throttle.

It's a MAP sensor, not MAF. There is a difference.

 

[engineering]

It's a MAP sensor, not MAF. There is a difference.

Indeed there is a difference, thank you for pointing that out.

I am interested in both at the end of the day - one is FLOW and the other is PRESSURE.

Combine the data and you can start estimating power - or power increases.

 

[Fishstickz]

The little board on the right is the 'Feather M0 Adalogger' from adafruit.com. It has good support in Arduino IDE but so far I am trying to do this in MicroPython which is also supported.

This board should do a good job of controlling NeoPixel devices if you want an LED show. For high current (above a a few single LED's) Adafruit has a big selection of LED controllers that this can interface with and sync the LEDs to events on the OBD2 bus.

For example, when you floor the throttle, it can turn all the LED's to red. Fun stuff - not just clearing DTC's (check engine light)

Now you’ve got my attention lol thats some pretty neat stuff. I’ll have to give it a look


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[engineering]

The engine hardware has arrived. It looks good and I am in the engineering / manufacturing world - it definitely looks the part on the outside. Nice work from Sprintex so far.

Nothing looks too intimidating so far. All the hardware and accessories are clearly labeled and the instruction appear to be rather detailed.

When the weather starts to clear up a bit around here, I will get the party started.

 

[Robeffy]

Looks good...!

 

[clifford15]

Nice! Looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

[JS4024]

You missed the first post.......

I read it. Absurd to try to make an engine perform with mods and add ons.... if you value your warranty forget it. If you have enough money for all the mods, you probably have enough to buy the proper engine in a 1500 to do the job.....

 

[NewBlackDak]

I read it. Absurd to try to make an engine perform with mods and add ons.... if you value your warranty forget it. If you have enough money for all the mods, you probably have enough to buy the proper engine in a 1500 to do the job.....

Who **** in your Cheerios? I’m positive there is something in your life you do or maintain irrationally due to emotion or sentimentality.


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[Quyonmob]

Who **** in your Cheerios? I’m positive there is something in your life you do or maintain irrationally due to emotion or sentimentality.


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^this.

who ***** on someone for supercharging a V6? It will likely tow fantastically. It’s a truck forum, would be real fun here if we were sure to all keep them stock....

 

[Different Drummer]

Been following along since the beginning of the thread. Sounds like an interesting project.
I hope for optimal positive results for the OP.
I do have some random thoughts. There has been a lot of talk about high RPM's , torque etc.
Couple of things I have not seen mentioned.
1) The torque curve for the pentastar is very flat. Hardly a curve at all. And it does come on pretty early.

2) When you go to a lower gear ratio in the Diff. you are doing more than making the engine Rev higher for any given road speed. You are also giving the engine an increased mechanical advantage at any given RPM. If I turn a hand wheel at 10 RPM and it is connected to another
Hand wheel of the same diameter via chain or belt I will perceive a certain amount of effort required. If I reduce the diameter of the driving wheel ( the one I am turning ) I can turn it at the same RPM as I was before reducing it and will not perceive an increased effort but in fact feel less effort. Albeit, the driven wheel will turn slower. That mechanical advantage made my work effort less. So gearing does in fact do more than up your RPM's in an effort to find a torque sweet spot. And we should remember the nature of the torque curve on this engine.

3) Had my truck on the open highway yesterday and decided to do a little experiment.
70 MPH in 7th gear = 2,000 RPM
70 MPH in 6th gear = 2,400 RPM
70 MPH in 5th gear = 3,000 RPM
That truck would run all day a 3,000 RPM. Point is, it would most likely do just fine at even higher RPM's in a lower gear when needed for a pull up a grade.

4) So we add airflow into the combustion chamber attempting to achieve more BTU's (torque?) Torque at a lower RPM? We still have the same Diff. gears. Thinking about this the first thing comes to mind is my Dad saying to me so many years ago, " Don't be lugging that engine son".
I think when all is said and done there will be a Diff. gear change needed to achieve optimal results. I am not saying the supercharging does not have some merit, but in this instance considering the engine in play, the use of lower gears in the Diff. are the larger factor to achieve the desired results.
Just my 2 cents.

Edit: think of the stress on the reciprocating components of the engine when an increase amount of torque is introduced without increasing the mechanical advantage of lower gears.
That energy ( torque ) will be felt throughout the entire drivetrain all the way back to the crankshaft. It will be felt retrograde.

 

[engineering]

I read it. Absurd to try to make an engine perform with mods and add ons.... if you value your warranty forget it. If you have enough money for all the mods, you probably have enough to buy the proper engine in a 1500 to do the job.....

You missed the first post.......seriously.

 

[engineering]

1) The torque curve for the pentastar is very flat. Hardly a curve at all. And it does come on pretty early.

Indeed. The problem is not the shape of the curve it is the anemic peak of the curve. Overall, this engine is an amazing accomplishment in my opinion. It gets a LOT done for a 3.6L normally aspirated engine.

2) When you go to a lower gear ratio in the Diff. you are doing more than making the engine Rev higher for any given road speed. You are also giving the engine an increased mechanical advantage at any given RPM. If I turn a hand wheel at 10 RPM and it is connected to another
Hand wheel of the same diameter via chain or belt I will perceive a certain amount of effort required. If I reduce the diameter of the driving wheel ( the one I am turning ) I can turn it at the same RPM as I was before reducing it and will not perceive an increased effort but in fact feel less effort. Albeit, the driven wheel will turn slower. That mechanical advantage made my work effort less. So gearing does in fact do more than up your RPM's in an effort to find a torque sweet spot. And we should remember the nature of the torque curve on this engine.

At the end of the day, the torque at the contact patch of the drive wheels is what is important. Changing the rear gear alone forces the truck to shift another gear up and the final ratio from the crankshaft to the tire is very similar. This is nice in first gear trying to get going up a steep hill, but the goal here is more focused on the hilly highway driving. The 8 speed transmission ensures that rear changes don't do a lot for the delivered torque.

The reason I am likely going to the do the gear change is (like you mentioned) to reduce the load on the transmission.

3) Had my truck on the open highway yesterday and decided to do a little experiment.
70 MPH in 7th gear = 2,000 RPM
70 MPH in 6th gear = 2,400 RPM
70 MPH in 5th gear = 3,000 RPM
That truck would run all day a 3,000 RPM. Point is, it would most likely do just fine at even higher RPM's in a lower gear when needed for a pull up a grade.

When fully loaded, the truck never sees 7th or 8th gear at all. We nicknamed 6th gear the 'Unicorn gear' because it is elusive - almost never makes it to 6th. When it does, not for long. 5th gear is really only for flat ground for the most part, cool temps, low-ish altitude, etc. The slightest grade pushes the truck into 4th, medium grades get into 3rd which gets pretty ridiculous if trying to maintain 65mph puts the RPM at 4700. Slowing down to 55mph gets me to 4000 rpm, which is still pretty serious AND I am going 25mph slower than all the other traffic which can get scary.

At the moment - the expectation is that I will go with a 3.92 rear-end which should help the transmission handle the additional 100+ ft/lbs of torque. I estimate that is should be able to maintain 65mph at 2700 rpm (6th gear) and be able to deal with grades up to around 5%. At 6% or so, probably going to 5th gear at 3500 rpm. Not too bad, not a lot of long stretches of 6%+ grades. Steeper grades, I would just slow down.

 

[Different Drummer]

Indeed. The problem is not the shape of the curve it is the anemic peak of the curve. Overall, this engine is an amazing accomplishment in my opinion. It gets a LOT done for a 3.6L normally aspirated engine.

When fully loaded, the truck never sees 7th or 8th gear at all. We nicknamed 6th gear the 'Unicorn gear' because it is elusive - almost never makes it to 6th. When it does, not for long. 5th gear is really only for flat ground for the most part, cool temps, low-ish altitude, etc. The slightest grade pushes the truck into 4th, medium grades get into 3rd which gets pretty ridiculous if trying to maintain 65mph puts the RPM at 4700. Slowing down to 55mph gets me to 4000 rpm, which is still pretty serious AND I am going 25mph slower than all the other traffic which can get scary.
.

I am not totally disagreeing with some of what you have presented throughout this thread. I have followed along and think I have a pretty good idea of where you are coming from.
What is quoted above is in part what raises some concern for me. What I am reading is that you want torque to be more abundant. ( You reference the "anemic peak" ). I also hear that you want that torque available at a lower RPM. It seems like you trying to achieve a rapid rise in torque early on. The Pentastar simply is not a diesel in robustness of build or design function. In fact it is the antithesis of a diesel. Remember the Oldsmobile diesel debacle?
So if you somehow find a way to gain a bunch of torque at low RPM but do not change the final drive gearing there will be more than just a slight increase in stress on all components of the driveline at a low RPM with a trailer in tow without the mechanical advantage of a lower Diff. gear. All the way from crankshaft, connecting rods and bearings as well as the transmission which you have stated a concern for.
You have mentioned your intention for a gear change in addition to the supercharger. It seemed to be an either / or discussion early on in the thread and that was the subject I was speaking to in my first post.
I think you will most likely reach reasonable success using both approaches. I think it is a wise choice to change the rear Diff. gears. I would go so far as to say that the gear change is the most influential part of the equation. Even with both changes I don't think it will become an ideal tow vehicle. The foundation for that simply is missing from under the hood.
So get it done. We need to know how it runs. I am more in anticipation of hearing about its street prowess as opposed to its towing ability. I bet it will be a sleeper. I bet that supercharger on my 2WD Pentastar would be the cats ass.
Oh, if it does not have a LSD you probably should address that when you do the gear change.

 

[engineering]

Even with both changes I don't think it will become an ideal tow vehicle. The foundation for that simply is missing from under the hood.

Totally agreed - it is far from an ideal tow vehicle for sure. This truck was meant for great gas mileage while periodically picking up a few 2x4's at Home Depot.

As long as I keep the load under the factory ratings and drive it carefully - it should be reasonable though. Certainly no expectation that this will turn it into a diesel tow monster.

All the supercharger parts are here right now but as you probably already read a few posts ago, I am taking some time to log the temps, load, TPS, MAF, MAP, etc of the truck loaded/unloaded in stock form so that I can make some judgments about how the additional power is impacting the whole powertrain. I am really quite curious how the transmission temps will respond. If I can keep the transmission at a good temp - I feel fairly confident the rest will hold up.

Some good news is that when it is unloaded and just being used for driving around - it will still get the amazing mileage of the V6. Of course that is up to the style of the driver, lol. I still have the OEM 20" wheels/tires that may need to be smoked a bit for science.

 

[Batt4Christ]

Here’s a thought:

The rear gear swap is a good idea, regardless of “other” possibilities. Towing max loads will be more pleasant with the 3.92 rear end.

You might be surprised at how well it pulls with just that.



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[Different Drummer]

Here’s a thought:

The rear gear swap is a good idea, regardless of “other” possibilities. Towing max loads will be more pleasant with the 3.92 rear end.

You might be surprised at how well it pulls with just that.



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I concur.

 

[Different Drummer]

All the supercharger parts are here right now but as you probably already read a few posts ago, I am taking some time to log the temps, load, TPS, MAF, MAP, etc of the truck loaded/unloaded in stock form so that I can make some judgments about how the additional power is impacting the whole powertrain. I am really quite curious how the transmission temps will respond. If I can keep the transmission at a good temp - I feel fairly confident the rest will hold up.

Glad to hear you are waiting to get the baseline data.
I had a Diesel Motorhome that I installed a "scan gauge" on. The main feature I used when driving was a screen called "percent of load". IMO this was the most valuable information in regards to running the engine in a healthy and efficient manner. It told me what the engine was feeling no matter what the conditions. Headwinds, tailwinds, climbing grades OAT etc. Driving conditions are dynamic not static. Judicious use of the transmission to place the percent of load in that happy spot kept the equipment happy and achieved optimum fuel mileage.
The values you intend to record and compare will be quite helpful.