3.0L Hurricane Updates?

[HEMIMANN]

Nah - screw the Hemi. Hemi heads are for >5000 rpm breathability. i.e. - racing. How many y'all run your trucks above 5000 rpm?

Give us a DOHC higher compression modern V8 without all the miniscule fuel mileage increase crap (MDS, VVT, whatever). Aluminum block and head. 4 valves per jug. No turbo.

If'n they wanna use GDI instead of MPFI, then use TWO INJECTORS per cylinder like it should be. DI for lean burn, IDI for rich (stoich) burn.

 

[NCRaineman]

Give us a DOHC higher compression modern V8 without all the miniscule fuel mileage increase crap (MDS, VVT, whatever). Aluminum block and head. 4 valves per jug. No turbo.

If'n they wanna use GDI instead of MPFI, then use TWO INJECTORS per cylinder like it should be. DI for lean burn, IDI for rich (stoich) burn.

Stellantis does technically have access to Ferrari's parts catalogue. Lot of tech which could be applied there.

The current problem is making something naturally aspirated with enough displacement to make torque while also meeting upcoming emissions standards. Hemi just couldn't do it, so a clean slate design is needed.

Give 'em a year or two and they'll do something. Ford and GM are remaining committed to the V8 game, while still offering smaller turbo engines for those who want them. Mopar will have an answer.

 

[SniperDroid]

Nah - screw the Hemi. Hemi heads are for >5000 rpm breathability. i.e. - racing. How many y'all run your trucks above 5000 rpm?

Give us a DOHC higher compression modern V8 without all the miniscule fuel mileage increase crap (MDS, VVT, whatever). Aluminum block and head. 4 valves per jug. No turbo.

If'n they wanna use GDI instead of MPFI, then use TWO INJECTORS per cylinder like it should be. DI for lean burn, IDI for rich (stoich) burn.

Can you put that in English for those of us that don't have an engineering degree?

 

[NCRaineman]

Can you put that in English for those of us that don't have an engineering degree?

He wants something more akin to Ford's Coyote instead of an iron block pushrod design which dates to the 60's.

 

[SniperDroid]

Why is a 6 cyl turbocharged gas engine bad, but a 6 cyl turbocharged diesel good?

 

[Riccochet]

Nah - screw the Hemi. Hemi heads are for >5000 rpm breathability. i.e. - racing. How many y'all run your trucks above 5000 rpm?

Give us a DOHC higher compression modern V8 without all the miniscule fuel mileage increase crap (MDS, VVT, whatever). Aluminum block and head. 4 valves per jug. No turbo.

If'n they wanna use GDI instead of MPFI, then use TWO INJECTORS per cylinder like it should be. DI for lean burn, IDI for rich (stoich) burn.

Don't need all that for an HD truck. Look at what Ford is doing. Simple push rod V8 with a lot of displacement for gobs of low end torque. That's what I want in my truck.

And the reason Ford doesn't go with a DOHC V8 bigger than the 5.0 is footprint. That thing is HUGE, and it's barely wedged in to the Mustang and F150. Making a bigger block, bigger heads would just be a nightmare to jam in any engine bay. Which is why DOHC V8's are generally smaller displacement, wide angle.

And if we look at the Coyote V8 it makes all of it's power up high.

Alternatively, if you look at the old BBM's they generally made peak torque around 3500 RPM.

 

[NCRaineman]

Why is a 6 cyl turbocharged gas engine bad, but a 6 cyl turbocharged diesel good?

That I'd love to know. With direct injection and the boost pressures modern turbo gas engines are running they might as well be diesels.

 

[NCRaineman]

Don't need all that for an HD truck. Look at what Ford is doing. Simple push rod V8 with a lot of displacement for gobs of low end torque. That's what I want in my truck.

I have a feeling Godzilla won't be around for a super long time... as it is extremely low tech. I believe Ford is using its sales volumes of other vehicles to hide an emissions dinosaur in its lineup.

 

[Riccochet]

I have a feeling Godzilla won't be around for a super long time... as it is extremely low tech. I believe Ford is using its sales volumes of other vehicles to hide an emissions dinosaur in its lineup.

HD trucks are not subject to fuel economy standards. They don't count against a manufacturers fleet wide fuel economy rating. The big gas V8's aren't going anywhere.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

If'n they wanna use GDI instead of MPFI, then use TWO INJECTORS per cylinder like it should be. DI for lean burn, IDI for rich (stoich) burn.

(GDI) Gas Direct injection, injected into the combustion chamber at high pressure, (MPFI) multiport fuel injection injected into the intake port keeps the intake valve clean of carbon, the 2.7 ford EB has this fuel delivery system.

P/S we need more experienced Engineers!!!

 

[HEMIMANN]

(GDI) Gas Direct injection, injected into the combustion chamber at high pressure, (MPFI) multiport fuel injection injected into the intake port keeps the intake valve clean of carbon, the 2.7 ford EB has this fuel delivery system.

P/S we need more experienced Engineers!!!

Did not know this! Thank you.

We need less bean counters and rich executives.

However - 2.7L needed twin turbos, which carboned and wore out.

Give us 6.0L non turbo DOHC split injection aluminum engine.
Simple. All these architectures exist. Put em together.

 

[NCRaineman]

Give us 6.0L non turbo DOHC split injection aluminum engine.
Simple. All these architectures exist. Put em together.

That's called an LT6. It's like a 15 year old Ferrari engine... and apparently about that reliable. Combining all that is at the bleeding edge of what can be done with gasoline.

Also I don't believe you realize how large a 6.0L DOHC 90 degree dual injection V8 would be. There are physical constraints in what can fit under the hood of a road going vehicle. GM literally built Corvette around the engine, maintenance is a nightmare.

There are also budgetary constraints to consider. How many people are going to buy a $150,000 HD pickup truck?

 

[Riccochet]

That's called an LT6. It's like a 15 year old Ferrari engine... and apparently about that reliable. Combining all that is at the bleeding edge of what can be done with gasoline.

Also I don't believe you realize how large a 6.0L DOHC 90 degree dual injection V8 would be. There are physical constraints in what can fit under the hood of a road going vehicle. GM literally built Corvette around the engine, maintenance is a nightmare.

There are also budgetary constraints to consider. How many people are going to buy a $150,000 HD pickup truck?

I don't think people realize just how big the 5.0 Coyote engine is. Compared to the 392 6.4 and the LS7 7.0 it's HUGE. Head size and where the exhaust ports are located really constrain how and what a OHC V8 can be used in.

The Questionable Garage on YT swapped in a 6.1 Hemi, LS3 and 5.0 Coyote in to a Duster to compete in all three events in KY. MoParty, LS Fest and Ford Fest. He had to use turbo manifolds as headers on the 5.0, swapped side to side, just to clear in the engine bay. There was no room to spare, while you can nearly swim in that engine bay with the other two engines.

And the benefit to OHC is making a higher revving engine. I don't want that in a truck.

 

[NCRaineman]

I don't think people realize just how big the 5.0 Coyote engine is. Compared to the 392 6.4 and the LS7 7.0 it's HUGE. Head size and where the exhaust ports are located really constrain how and what a OHC V8 can be used in.

I had a 2011 Mustang GT for a little while... yeah I know how big Coyote is.

 

[ramffml]

And the benefit to OHC is making a higher revving engine. I don't want that in a truck.

The 5.0 now makes 5 more hp than the 5.7 hemi. But redline is 7000-ish rpms. Sure the 5.0 makes a lot of power but that would get old listening to it wind up on every hill when trying to hit peak power.

 

[HEMIMANN]

That's called an LT6. It's like a 15 year old Ferrari engine... and apparently about that reliable. Combining all that is at the bleeding edge of what can be done with gasoline.

Also I don't believe you realize how large a 6.0L DOHC 90 degree dual injection V8 would be. There are physical constraints in what can fit under the hood of a road going vehicle. GM literally built Corvette around the engine, maintenance is a nightmare.

There are also budgetary constraints to consider. How many people are going to buy a $150,000 HD pickup truck?

They fit the elephant head of the Hemi, didn't they? With the tall, wide heads to fit the cross-wise exhaust valves? Full size trucks aren't that big of a deal. Haven't Toyota and Nissan done so?

 

[NCRaineman]

The 5.0 now makes 5 more hp than the 5.7 hemi. But redline is 7000-ish rpms. Sure the 5.0 makes a lot of power but that would get old listening to it wind up on every hill when trying to hit peak power.

For trucks torque matters more than horsepower.

5.0 in F-150 makes 400lb/ft of torque at 4500 RPM
5.7 Hemi in Ram makes 410lb/ft at 4000 RPM.
Want to be really impressed? GM's Turbomax gas four banger in Silverado makes 430lb/ft at 3000RPM.

I know we love our Hemis here, but the design is really showing its age now. It's not very competitive in the current market, GM's *base* engine outperforms it. Thus why it is being replaced.

 

[ramffml]

For trucks torque matters more than horsepower.

5.0 in F-150 makes 400lb/ft of torque at 4500 RPM
5.7 Hemi in Ram makes 410lb/ft at 4000 RPM.
Want to be really impressed? GM's Turbomax gas four banger in Silverado makes 430lb/ft at 3000RPM.

I know we love our Hemis here, but the design is really showing its age now. It's not very competitive in the current market, GM's *base* engine outperforms it. Thus why it is being replaced.

Yes those are the peak numbers, the point remains that the 5.0 revs much higher than the 5.7. If you watch towing reviews you'll see it revving way out to 7000 rpms before upshifting.

I don't disagree that the hemi is old, I disagree that it is no longer competitive. In "my world", we'd see an updated/new v8 and not these whiz bangers.

Gm's 6.2 will walk all over the 2.7, despite only a 30 lb/ft increase.

 

[NCRaineman]

I don't disagree that the hemi is old, I disagree that it is no longer competitive. In "my world", we'd see an updated/new v8 and not these whiz bangers.

Gm's 6.2 will walk all over the 2.7, despite only a 30 lb/ft increase.

We will likely see a new V8 in a few years. I can't imagine Mopar coming off having the most well known V8s of the last 15 years and going all in on a turbo six. Even if it is outstanding some people will still want a V8.

As far as GM's 6.2 goes, sure horsepower still matters. My point is their *base* engine was competing with Ram's upgrade engine.

 

[ramffml]

As far as GM's 6.2 goes, sure horsepower still matters. My point is their *base* engine was competing with Ram's upgrade engine.

Depends on your definition of "compete". The ram is still faster and pulls more weight. Off the line while towing the extra torque will help the 4 banger a bit, but as soon as you're moving and the 5.7 is making peak hp it's game over, the 5.7 will walk away. The 5.7 is down 20 lb/ft, but up 90 horsepower.

And that's only looking at acceleration, which I do agree that these hurricanes are better at (can't argue the numbers), my issue is that the hemi can take a beating and run forever (it was the base 2500 engine for a decade) and I don't think the new turbos will do that to the same extent.

In other words, there is far more to an engine than 0 to 60 numbers. That's why we don't agree here, we have different definitions of "compete" and it looks like your only real criteria you're using is 0 to 60. Not saying you're wrong, your preference is your preference, but I'm not interested purely in 0 to 60.