6.4 getting a make over or going away?

[JerryETX]

Anyone heard any news about the 6.4 getting upgrades or even being tossed for a new engine? Here's why I ask.

GM came out with their 6.6 gas a couple years ago with 401 hp and 464 lb-ft of torque. GM recently announced they will replace their current 6 speed with their 10 speed Allison for all 6.6 gas trucks in 2024. Ford currently has their 6.2 v8 (with 385 hp and 430 lb-ft of torque with an optional 4:30 rear axle) and their 7.3 Godzilla. Ford is coming out with a 6.8L gas that will replace their 6.2 for 2023. Numbers aren't available yet but obviously the new Ford 6.8 will have increase numbers from their 6.2 which is currently equal to the 6.4 in terms of torque. This means Chrysler will be at the rear of the class come next year. Chrysler has proven they want to stay in the race in terms of class leading numbers for their trucks. With that seems like Chrysler will need to either revamp the 6.4 or replace it with a new engine. I wouldn't think they will be able to get that much more torque out of a 6.4 without a turbo.

I'm thinking we could see a new engine coming for the Ram 2500 & 3500 gas trucks in the near future.

Thoughts?

 

[retired]

Ya been in a coma the last six months? Hurricane google it

 

[SouthTexan]

I don't think they will put a turbocharged 3.0L inline 6 in an HD truck. While it might be fine unloaded and have plenty of power even when towing, it would be hard to control the heat those turbos would put out at full boost/load for long periods of time when towing. I can see them possibly putting in a 4 or 5.0L with less boost as a means to control heat.

Another option for Ram would be the gasoline version of the 6.7L diesel that Cummins announced earlier this year. It is basically the block and lower parts of the 6.7L diesel, but altered heads and upper parts to run on gasoline. Although I would wager that the block would have an open deck design versus the closed deck design of the diesel to control heat. Cummins stated that they will roll out for 2024 models in the medium duty truck market, so Ram could announce it around this time next year for their 2024 trucks. If Ram did this, then it would take the others a long time to catch up.

I would expect that they can easily make 450-475 hp and 550-575 lb-ft while still being very conservative for longevity.

Cummins 6.7-liter gas engine part of new fuel agnostic strategy

 

[Omegasupreme]

If they could make a gas engine with around 600 torque, I'd be all in.
Downshifting is what kills the mpg in gassers with the 6.4.

 

[JerryETX]

Ya been in a coma the last six months? Hurricane google it

No I haven't but apparently I missed something please explain

 

[JerryETX]

I don't think they will put a turbocharged 3.0L inline 6 in an HD truck. While it might be fine unloaded and have plenty of power even when towing, it would be hard to control the heat those turbos would put out at full boost/load for long periods of time when towing. I can see them possibly putting in a 4 or 5.0L with less boost as a means to control heat.

Another option for Ram would be the gasoline version of the 6.7L diesel that Cummins announced earlier this year. It is basically the block and lower parts of the 6.7L diesel, but altered heads and upper parts to run on gasoline. Although I would wager that the block would have an open deck design versus the closed deck design of the diesel to control heat. Cummins stated that they will roll out for 2024 models in the medium duty truck market, so Ram could announce it around this time next year for their 2024 trucks. If Ram did this, then it would take the others a long time to catch up.

I would expect that they can easily make 450-475 hp and 550-575 lb-ft while still being very conservative for longevity.

Cummins 6.7-liter gas engine part of new fuel agnostic strategy

If they get anything north of 500 lb-ft of torque in a gas that would be amazing. I don't buy new trucks but that would make me buy new.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Same - but since they're owned by Italians & French, I doubt they give Chrysler free reign anymore, as evidenced when they stuck their Italian ECO diesel in instead of a Cummins (Cummins had the contract before Chrysler went bankrupt).

A modern V8 with DOHC would have done it. Instead, they're sending a BMW sport sedan engine. Great.

 

[Scottly]

I don't think they will put a turbocharged 3.0L inline 6 in an HD truck. While it might be fine unloaded and have plenty of power even when towing, it would be hard to control the heat those turbos would put out at full boost/load for long periods of time when towing.

It's doable(that's not spelled "cheap"). Take a look at the Chevy Camaro or other supercharged cars...Large radiators(plural), oil coolers(plural), trans coolers, and differential coolers. You can cool those turbos...You just can't really do it with one entry point for the air.

 

[Scottly]

A modern V8 with DOHC would have done it. Instead, they're sending a BMW sport sedan engine. Great.

Agreed...But keep an open mind. BMW went with a V8 for the M-series, then went back to that tried and true (and reliable) inline 6, and have gradually increased the power level over many years. Toyota uses it in the Supra....Because it works.

 

[rule18]

No I haven't but apparently I missed something please explain

This is the Hurricane he's referring to...

 

[Wild one]

If they could make a gas engine with around 600 torque, I'd be all in.
Downshifting is what kills the mpg in gassers with the 6.4.

They already have a gas engine that makes well north of 600 lb-ft.A detuned 800 horse Red Eye engine would be an easy upgrade for HD trucks,and would probably return better milege then the N/A 6.4 does

 

[JerryETX]

This is the Hurricane he's referring to...

Gotcha I remember reading about this a while back but never heard mention of it going in HD trucks.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Just saying...the track record of European companies shoving their continent's unique designs onto the U.S. is long and poor. I believe what I see instead of marketeer blather.

Daimler Benz bought Chrysler for $35B, a complete mismatch of product and cultures.
Sold for $7B = total failure.

 

[SouthTexan]

It's doable(that's not spelled "cheap"). Take a look at the Chevy Camaro or other supercharged cars...Large radiators(plural), oil coolers(plural), trans coolers, and differential coolers. You can cool those turbos...You just can't really do it with one entry point for the air.

I don't think it is doable towing the weights an HD will tow and it's duty cycle. The temps would get up there when towing 10k with my F150 3.5L Ecoboost and that truck was only 5k lbs and not the 7k lbs of an HD. Add in another 15k lbs an HD is rated to tow and you will have a hard time keeping that engine cool. A bigger engine using less boost is easier to cool than a small engine using a lot of boost. A diesel is a different animal since it does not retain as nearly as much heat.

 

[SouthTexan]

Sorry, but no. High reving DOHC engine are not that great in trucks that are meant to tow. They are great in cars meant to go fast. Push rod engine are way better at achieving low end torque that a trucks duty cycle requires.

 

[Scottly]

Sorry, but no. High reving DOHC engine are not that great in trucks that are meant to tow. They are great in cars meant to go fast. Push rod engine are way better at achieving low end torque that a trucks duty cycle requires.

Respectfully, that's not an accurate statement. Valve actuation location has no bearing on torque output of an engine. The current crop of available powerplants might reflect your statement because the OHC engines have been primarily designed for cars, but it would not be an issue to design one with a bore and stroke ratio, coupled with a cam profile, to produce a lot of torque at the low end of the rpm range. Since horsepower sells, being able to rev a motor high and produce mathematical high HP numbers lends itself to an OHC engine to limit valve train fluctuations....The primary reason to keep a cam down in the block is because a long-stroke engine needs a tall block, and having the cam over head just makes it that much taller....

 

[Scottly]

I don't think it is doable towing the weights an HD will tow and it's duty cycle. .

I guess people forget about the Chevy 292 inline 6. Used in just about every HD truck back in the day. PS: Your Ecoboost Ford is a an over-rated POS, so use something else to compare to.

 

[JerryETX]

I don't claim to be an engineer but there's a reason these modern smaller "boosted" engines haven't been offered in heavy duty trucks. I believe testing has proved these smaller engines won't hold up to heavy duty towing. The big 3 would love to get EPA off their a$$ and satisfy customers at the same time by offering an engine that uses less fuel and has more power. If these smaller engines were an option I think we would have already seen them in hd trucks before now.

 

[SouthTexan]

I guess people forget about the Chevy 292 inline 6. Used in just about every HD truck back in the day. PS: Your Ecoboost Ford is a an over-rated POS, so use something else to compare to.

The Chevy 292 and Ford 300 did not have a turbo tied to it and did not put out high power numbers.

I guess we would have to disagree on the Ecoboost being a POS. We have a fleet of over 1500 truck nationwide at work and roughly 300 of them are Ecoboost F150's. We used to send these trucks to auction at 150k miles, but after receiving these Ecoboost trucks, we started to sending them at 200k because we had very little issues with them. I personally put over 175k on one of those trucks and over 125k on my personal F150 Ecoboost that I had before my Ram.

But hey, if you have more experience with them to say they are an over-rated POS, then by all means.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I don't think they will put a turbocharged 3.0L inline 6 in an HD truck.

I am 100% sure they are focus grouping the concept with potential customers, so they are at least spending money on feasibility studies. If it comes to fruition or not is a different question.