A can of worms.. Payload.. Why?

[tron67j]

Lol love the gif, thanks for adding humor.

I'm not looking for someone to agree with me or just tell me what I want to hear. I thought I made that clear many times. I'm just looking for sources to back up everyone's opinion. You have an opinion clearly, I'm not looking for door figures. Again, why could I register a truck in other states heavier then what the sticker says? Do you have any sources you could share? I'm coming to the table with an age old debate that has a strong following either way and no real answers, besides with "the stickers say so". I agree with warnings, but what are the real differences. There are plenty of people who decide to drive without seatbelts which is also against what the sticker says.

Trust me, I have no plans going over any legal limits and would upgrade if I had to.
My biggest fear would be if I went over the 10000 GVWR because of believing my OPINION that these trucks are the same, and the only difference is coils vs leaves, and if I add airbags I would be perfectly fine. I go down the highway with my family and 5er loaded up and my payload is 500lbs over, but with my opinion that the truck is plenty capable to handle it. I get involved in a crash, people go to the hospital, trucks totaled, camper is fubard. Now, the other driver gets a good attorney and an investigation is done, they find I was over my trucks GVWR. They sue me, now my insurance company won't cover me because I loaded up over the weight limit. Now I'm personally liable, out a truck, a camper, hospital bills out of pocket and "pain and suffering" for the other people.

You think I want that?? Absolutely not. I'm just curious, which apparently is a sin around here if asking for any proof anyone has that shows the 2500 could not hold the same as the 3500 if equipped correctly. People have a hard time saying, "I have no proof, I just feel safe with what the sticker says". Ok good, that's good you want to do that, I wouldn't think less of anyone. I'm just wondering if anyone has done any research or looked into it. But this forum takes it as an argument, when it's not.

Here is an interesting video, most of the video can be skipped, but at 22 minutes they discuss the weight.

I Accidentally Overloaded My Ram 2500 Cummins By 1,000 Pounds & Guess What?

TFL runs on Sinclair fuel and so should you. Download the Sinclair DINOPAY app and start saving as much as $0.10 or more per gallon on your next fill-up. (ht...

youtu.be

So, going to say right up front that your opinion about bags increasing your payload is wrong. But first: Based on your aim throughout this thread to get someone to agree our 2509s are underrated, your rear suspension is not the problem as the "math" of 6500 + 5500 is 11,000 GVWR. So why do you want bags? If the 2500 is underrated because the GAWRs add up to more, and your opinion olis that the trucks are built to handle more, then you don't have to do a thing; overload it and be on your way.

Yes, a bit sarcastic, but the numbers on your door are certified by engineers. The proof of what the truck has been designed to do is right there. Stellantis, much less any company, will never officially state a lesser-rated truck will perform at the same level as a higher-rated one, even if that were possible. That would be a class action lawsuit looking for a court to happen in: whether it is for all the 3500 owners who could have spent less to buy a 2500, or 2500 owners who start exceeding their specs and kill someone. I am sure you have read that 2500s have their GVWRs kept below 10k due to government restrictions and this may be true.

So....

What if Stellantis says a 2500 can exceed it's specs? How will they re-rate each 2500 already out in use so that we can all start using them for more weight? My point is your chasing an answer you will never get, and meanwhile some really knowledgeable people here are trying to help provide information to the best of their ability and, knowing none of us are Stellantis engineers you still get upset that we keep not giving you what you seek. All the talk about coil versus springs, and multi-connection points, etc. is trying to be informative, but at the same time it is (no offense intended) worth what you are paying for it. Beyond the factory-provided specs nothing else really matters and all of the really good information from this great group can't help you legally or safely tow/carry more.

At the end of this, the best answer is buy the tool that is rated for your specific needs.

 

[Rafke77]

So, going to say right up front that your opinion about bags increasing your payload is wrong. But first: Based on your aim throughout this thread to get someone to agree our 2509s are underrated, your rear suspension is not the problem as the "math" of 6500 + 5500 is 11,000 GVWR. So why do you want bags? If the 2500 is underrated because the GAWRs add up to more, and your opinion olis that the trucks are built to handle more, then you don't have to do a thing; overload it and be on your way.

I'm sorry, I think you missed when I wrote I'm not trying to get anyone to agree with me. I also said several times, this is not an argument, I'm simply asking if anyone has any proof what the differences are. I also wrote out why I didn't want to overload it. Please read my comments. I've spent more time repeating posts and explaining I'm not arguing with people then getting answers.

I also wrote, I know airbags will not increase payload. They will help stabilize the load and provide, in a way, the added "spring tension" like leaf springs, and level a load so the truck is safe.

Yes, a bit sarcastic, but the numbers on your door are certified by engineers. The proof of what the truck has been designed to do is right there. Stellantis, much less any company, will never officially state a lesser-rated truck will perform at the same level as a higher-rated one, even if that were possible. That would be a class action lawsuit looking for a court to happen in: whether it is for all the 3500 owners who could have spent less to buy a 2500, or 2500 owners who start exceeding their specs and kill someone. I am sure you have read that 2500s have their GVWRs kept below 10k due to government restrictions and this may be true.

Yes I have read this and I agree, and I defer back to my previous post explaining I would upgrade if needed due to legal reasons. I am also repeating that the confusion I have found is that some states allow you to register a higher weight then the door sticker. That seems like a liability on those states, why would they do that?

To add to the confusion, I was trying to find the weak point in the trucks, what would be the first to go if a truck was overloaded. So I started with my opinion of the rear suspension. I added screenshots and links where it's stated that leafs will hold more weight then springs. I think we all can agree on that. We can also agree tires are rated to hold certain weights and should not be exceeded. I looked up the rear axle and they can hold thousands of pounds more then what's rated on the door. Here is the source for that.

A Question about Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWRs) for Trucks

We recently received this question about the differences in the Gross Axle Weight Ratings (GAWRs) assigned by axle manufacturers and what's found on the

www.truckcamperadventure.com

And,

How to Raise the Payload Rating of Your Truck

When it comes right down to it, the pickup truck is built to really do one thing---haul cargo. Yes, some people use them to tow, but hauling cargo is what

www.truckcamperadventure.com

I'm making it clear that I know, just like the article, unless your are removing items from the truck to reduce weight, you can't raise payload. I'm adding these links to show the axles are rated to support much more then listed on the door, that's all. So I'm pretty certain now we can all agree the weak point is not the axles.

I have not found what differences are in the frame, so please, I'm asking not debating or arguing. If you know of any sources, please add.

So....

What if Stellantis says a 2500 can exceed it's specs? How will they re-rate each 2500 already out in use so that we can all start using them for more weight? My point is your chasing an answer you will never get, and meanwhile some really knowledgeable people here are trying to help provide information to the best of their ability and, knowing none of us are Stellantis engineers you still get upset that we keep not giving you what you seek. All the talk about coil versus springs, and multi-connection points, etc. is trying to be informative, but at the same time it is (no offense intended) worth what you are paying for it. Beyond the factory-provided specs nothing else really matters and all of the really good information from this great group can't help you legally or safely tow/carry more.

This is all about curiosity. You're right I might not ever get the information I'm looking for. But why does it seem like such a problem I'm asking, and the majority of responses, from everyone here who is a professional in their own mind, are rude just because I'm asking for sources? Yes I'm familiar about sticker ratings. But doesn't anyone else want to know how they came to with those numbers? It's simple, if someone doesn't know, they don't know. I don't know, l have no problem admitting that. That's why I'm looking for facts, so I do know. Everything I've found is very contradicting.

At the end of this, the best answer is buy the tool that is rated for your specific needs.

I couldn't agree more, and that's my goal. If I realize I have to upgrade I will, just like I've wrote before.

I found an email for Ram customer and I sent an email. Whenever or whether I get a response I will attach it. I dug a little last night and found these spec sheets which you still may know about already. I found them on the Stellantis website. I have 3 filled but one is too large to attach. They really don't help though.

*Edit* in playing around on ram trucks website I found payload increase going to a long bed from short bed by 400lbs. Same engine and etc. Why would that increase in bed raise payload, and not subject from it? Screenshots attached are 2023 Laramie with long and short bed.

 

[dhay13]

I think part of the frustration is that you want 'proof' of our opinions. The proof IS the door stickers. Those engineers that came up with those numbers are the ones that would have the proof, not us, but yet you keep asking us and getting frustrated when we don't provide sources. The sources ARE the door stickers. Any more than that and you will need to ask the engineers.

 

[06 Dodge]

*Edit* in playing around on ram trucks website I found payload increase going to a long bed from short bed by 400lbs. Same engine and etc. Why would that increase in bed raise payload, and not subject from it? Screenshots attached are 2023 Laramie with long and short bed.

Wheel Base, the LB will have longer Wheel Base then the SB, the LB box is 20 inches longer then SB box so frame has to be longer to accommodate the longer box.....

 

[Rafke77]

I think part of the frustration is that you want 'proof' of our opinions. The proof IS the door stickers. Those engineers that came up with those numbers are the ones that would have the proof, not us, but yet you keep asking us and getting frustrated when we don't provide sources. The sources ARE the door stickers. Any more than that and you will need to ask the engineers.

I've explained it plenty of times, yes I'd like proof of anyone has any information about the trucks, with my opinion that between the two the only difference was the rear suspension. If no one has any proof, hey that's fine, move on. I'm completely clear on the stickers, I've explained that numerous times as well. Please read the entire thread so you can understand how many times I've stated it. Yes, of I can get ahold of an engineer that would be perfect and it is something I'm trying. Read the post DIRECTLY before yours.

My frustration is that most of you are rude as hell because I'm just interested in knowing something and we have a difference of opinion (again read post prior to yours).

 

[Rafke77]

Wheel Base, the LB will have longer Wheel Base then the SB, the LB box is 20 inches longer then SB box so frame has to be longer to accommodate the longer box.

Not sure what you're trying to explain, unless it's because it has a longer box it can hold more weight? I assumed a longer box added more weight to the overall truck and would reduce the payload not increase it.

 

[06 Dodge]

Not sure what you're trying to explain, unless it's because it has a longer box it can hold more weight? I assumed a longer box added more weight to the overall truck and would reduce the payload not increase it.

The frame is longer on the LB compared to the SB, that increased length allows a longer WB, the longer WB is what allows the extra weigh capacity, not sure how they calculate bride law for HD pickup trucks...

 

[2020PW]

It’s an SAE standard (J2807), previously there was no standard across the board.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

Maximum trailer tow ratings have been a bit of a mystery over the years. Manufacturers each had their own somewhat secret ways of determining how much weight th

www.motortrend.com

 

[mtofell]

I don't have the patience to read the whole thread but can tell you back in 2014 when I bought my 2500 Ram my rear axle was rated for 6500# and the newer ones are now rated for 6000#. I believe the part number for the rear axle on the 2500 was the exact same as for the 3500SRW so back then the trucks really were identical (other than numbers on the door sticker and badging). Since then there have been some changes and the trucks are less the same. This is largely based off what someone on here that seemed to know posted and I never verified it farther as it really doesn't matter to me. But if you're looking for some kind of proof you might do some research on part #s to see which ones are the same.

 

[dhay13]

I don't have the patience to read the whole thread but can tell you back in 2014 when I bought my 2500 Ram my rear axle was rated for 6500# and the newer ones are now rated for 6000#. I believe the part number for the rear axle on the 2500 was the exact same as for the 3500SRW so back then the trucks really were identical (other than numbers on the door sticker and badging). Since then there have been some changes and the trucks are less the same. This is largely based off what someone on here that seemed to know posted and I never verified it farther as it really doesn't matter to me. But if you're looking for some kind of proof you might do some research on part #s to see which ones are the same.

Seems he wants everyone else to do the research

 

[Rafke77]

I think part of the frustration is that you want 'proof' of our opinions. The proof IS the door stickers. Those engineers that came up with those numbers are the ones that would have the proof, not us, but yet you keep asking us and getting frustrated when we don't provide sources. The sources ARE the door stickers. Any more than that and you will need to ask the engineers.

 

[Rafke77]

Seems he wants everyone else to do the research

Are you serious man? Or do you just troll, or can't read or are too lazy to?

 

[Rafke77]

The frame is longer on the LB compared to the SB, that increased length allows a longer WB, the longer WB is what allows the extra weigh capacity, not sure how they calculate bride law for HD pickup trucks...

Thank you

 

[Rafke77]

I don't have the patience to read the whole thread but can tell you back in 2014 when I bought my 2500 Ram my rear axle was rated for 6500# and the newer ones are now rated for 6000#. I believe the part number for the rear axle on the 2500 was the exact same as for the 3500SRW so back then the trucks really were identical (other than numbers on the door sticker and badging). Since then there have been some changes and the trucks are less the same. This is largely based off what someone on here that seemed to know posted and I never verified it farther as it really doesn't matter to me. But if you're looking for some kind of proof you might do some research on part #s to see which ones are the same.

Thank you as well. My '22 rear GAWR is 6390.

 

[mtofell]

Thank you as well. My '22 rear GAWR is 6390.

Axle weights are also sometimes limited by the tires that come on them. Or, at least the rating on the door sticker I should say. The axle itself well may have a higher rating but it's one of those "weakest link" things.

 

[dhay13]

Are you serious man? Or do you just troll, or can't read or are too lazy to?

I have read the whole thing from the start. You have asked the same question 10 times. Nobody has the supporting data cause none of us are automotive engineers with the test data that had been collected so the best we can do is abide by the #'s on the stickers.

 

[Rafke77]

I have read the whole thing from the start. You have asked the same question 10 times. Nobody has the supporting data cause none of us are automotive engineers with the test data that had been collected so the best we can do is abide by the #'s on the stickers.

Apparently you have not. Only a few posts back I stated how many times I have to repeat questions.

This thread is apparently bothering you in a personal way. What is the reason you have to comment in such an asinine way? If this annoys you, why don't you just not follow it anymore?

I never asked anyone without information to reply. I was hoping only those who might have come across that data to reply. But then I get people like yourself, who feel the need to insult me because I have questions?? Again, don't follow this. If no one would have responded, I would have assumed no one knew.. crazy concept. Instead here we are, where at least 50% of these posts are bickering.

Sadly this is going to be discouraging to newbies, if any of them are reading along, from asking questions of their own in fear of getting shamed on by this community.. makes me want to get a Ford.

 

[Rafke77]

Axle weights are also sometimes limited by the tires that come on them. Or, at least the rating on the door sticker I should say. The axle itself well may have a higher rating but it's one of those "weakest link" things.

If anything it would be my tires, they can hold 3640lbs each. Added up, my tires could theoretically hold 14560lbs but that would put me well over the GVWR. The axles can hold up to thousands of pounds more then rated. So this is where I narrowed it to either the frame or difference in rear suspension. In that video posted by 18CrewDually, it's the suspension that really showed the difference. From what I've read no one has ever tested the frame, and I'm hoping it Ram is open to me, they will explain it and maybe this question can be put to rest.

 

[mtofell]

The axles can hold up to thousands of pounds more then rated.

Now you're starting to dabble into build-in "factor of safety" which is a whole other issue. The tires, axle, frame and everything else are way over-designed for what they are rated for.