Broken valve springs 2018 5.7 with only 75K??

[BlownGP]

Coming home from work last week, getting up to speed form a stop light barely hit 40mph and heard tapping/clicking noise. Hard to describe but didn't sound right. I was passing somebody mowing the lawn so thought that's what I heard. Passed the lawn mower and still heard the noise, at that point I had no power and it was running bad. Was to pull into a neighborhood and shut it off. No lights or nothing on the dash.

Wouldn't start back. Buddy stopped by to help. We thought it was fuel or electrical related. Checked fuses, relays, pump all seem good. Didn't want to fire up.

Towed it to a local shop. They said there was no compression on cylinder #5. Pulled the valve cover and found the broken spring. Changed the spring and still no compression, so they are thinking it has a bent valve. They want to pull the head to change the valve.

They also suggested while we are in it, might has well pull the other head and change all the lifters, springs, etc. Which is a great idea and but I would rather put the non mds lifters and cam instead of the OEM mds ****. Then they were like well, that's going to be more labor, then tuning.

I am kinda at a loss. I'm thinking about just having fix that one side and selling the truck which I don't want to do but I also feel there might be something else wrong.

Sorry for the long post. hahaah

 

[Burla]

Replace it with OEM lifters would be my choice, as I like the idea while open have them replace stuff, then it's on them. I'd give the truck a second chance to, problem is nothing is made good anymore and anything new is not worth the price tag hanging on it.

 

[Ken226]

This 2018 with a new cam, lifters and MDS delete would be a much better truck than a new one.

See if you can convince them to put in the non- MDS cam and lifters. Disabling MDS with a tuner is the easy part.

 

[BlownGP]

Replace it with OEM lifters would be my choice, as I like the idea while open have them replace stuff, then it's on them. I'd give the truck a second chance to, problem is nothing is made good anymore and anything new is not worth the price tag hanging on it.

Arent the OEM just prone to fail though? I understand they would be new, but I guess if I got 100K out of them that would be good.

I was pretty sure once I got over the 100K I was waiting for the lifters to fail. Didn't expect a valve spring. hahaah

 

[BlownGP]

This 2018 with a new cam, lifters and MDS delete would be a much better truck than a new one.

See if you can convince them to put in the non- MDS cam and lifters. Disabling MDS with a tuner is the easy part.

I agree.

Question, How does a cam hurt longevity of the motor? This is my daily and I could care less about HP or how fast it is. That's what my Mustang is for. Don't get wrong I will take it but not what I worry about.

 

[Wild one]

Arent the OEM just prone to fail though? I understand they would be new, but I guess if I got 100K out of them that would be good.

I was pretty sure once I got over the 100K I was waiting for the lifters to fail. Didn't expect a valve spring. hahaah

The OEM lifters are still about the best lifter available for a daily driver. Other then the Johnsons with axle oiling,none of the other aftermarket lifters are worth a pot to pee in

 

[Burla]

Arent the OEM just prone to fail though? I understand they would be new, but I guess if I got 100K out of them that would be good.

I was pretty sure once I got over the 100K I was waiting for the lifters to fail. Didn't expect a valve spring. hahaah

I don't think it is a lifter problem, metalurgy shows the metal is good, it is a lubrication issue imo. There is plenty of evidence OEM lubricates better then MDS delete lifters. There is so much info out there I forget it all, what you say Rick @Wild one

beat me too it, lol. good job rick

 

[Ken226]

I agree.

Question, How does a cam hurt longevity of the motor?

Huh? It has to have a cam, or it won't run. So, it doesn't hurt the longevity at all. It drastically extends it. From Zero, to some number of miles significantly greater than zero

This is my daily and I could care less about HP or how fast it is. That's what my Mustang is for. Don't get wrong I will take it but not what I worry about.

Yea, that's what I meant. Have them install a regular ole OEM Mopar, non-MDS camshaft and lifters. Go Mopar with both the cam AND lifters. Aftermarket lifters is a bad idea.

Get the non-MDS Mopar, OEM lifters affectionately referred to as "hellcat lifters".

 

[Ken226]

There is plenty of evidence OEM lubricates better then MDS delete lifters.

In a non-MDS engine with the solenoid block off plates, all of the lifter bores are fed full oil pressure, all the time.

In a MDS engine, oil pressure is used to collapse the MDS lifters. So, the MDS cylinder deactivation solenoids restrict oil to the MDS lifters bores, and only allow pressurized oil into the lifter bores when the PCM commands cylinder deactivation.


So, a non-MDS engine gets more oil to the lifters, for more time, than a MDS engine.


But in a MDS engine, having MDS active provides more oil to the lifters than disabling it. Having a MDS engine but with MDS disabled, pretty much means no pressurized oil to the MDS lifter bores, ever. Though, they will still be fed oil via the push rods.

@Wild one , correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Ken226]

Here is a cutaway of the MDS lifter

When the solenoid opens and sends pressurized oil into the lifter bores, it pushes in that pin that's perpendicular to the lifter body, in the middle, and collapses the lifter, which disables the valves for that cylinder.

In a non-MDS engine, pressurized oil can be fed to the lifter bores full time instead of just during cylinder deactivation.

 

[Wild one]

In a non-MDS engine with the solenoid block off plates, all of the lifter bores are fed full oil pressure, all the time.

In a MDS engine, oil pressure is used to collapse the MDS lifters. So, the MDS cylinder deactivation solenoids restrict oil to the MDS lifters bores, and only allow pressurized oil into the lifter bores when the PCM commands cylinder deactivation.


So, a non-MDS engine gets more oil to the lifters, for more time, than a MDS engine.


But in a MDS engine, having MDS active provides more oil to the lifters than disabling it. Having a MDS engine but with MDS disabled, pretty much means no pressurized oil to the MDS lifter bores, ever. Though, they will still be fed oil via the push rods.

@Wild one , correct me if I'm mistaken.

You nailed it Ken.

 

[Wild one]

If it's a daily driver truck,i'd just put it together with all OEM parts and call it good.Odds are a new stock cam/lifters and springs will out live the truck.Trucks almost 8 years old now,you get another 8 years out of it,that'll put it at 16 years old,and odds are by then it'll be pretty well wore out.
Going to a non-mds cam is gonna add another $1200 to $1500 more to the bill by the time you factor in unlocking the pcm / bypass cable which the 18's and newer need,then custom tuning,it's up to the OP to figure out if the extra cost is justiable to him

 

[BlownGP]

The OEM lifters are still about the best lifter available for a daily driver. Other then the Johnsons with axle oiling,none of the other aftermarket lifters are worth a pot to pee in

So, the Non MDS lifters are worse than the OEM MDS ones?

 

[Burla]

So, the Non MDS lifters are worse than the OEM MDS ones?

The BEST Prevention For Hemi Lifter Failure! (In My Opinion)

No one wants to experience the dreaded Hemi tick. If you are dealing with lifter failure this can be a costly repair. What are the options to help prevent it...

youtu.be

 

[BlownGP]

Huh? It has to have a cam, or it won't run. So, it doesn't hurt the longevity at all. It drastically extends it. From Zero, to some number of miles significantly greater than zero




Yea, that's what I meant. Have them install a regular ole OEM Mopar, non-MDS camshaft and lifters. Go Mopar with both the cam AND lifters. Aftermarket lifters is a bad idea.

Get the non-MDS Mopar, OEM lifters affectionately referred to as "hellcat lifters".

I was talking about a cam that goes choppy choppy. hahaah. Does that add extra wear on the the valvetrain especially for stop and go traffic?

Here is a cutaway of the MDS lifterView attachment 564588

When the solenoid opens and sends pressurized oil into the lifter bores, it pushes in that pin that's perpendicular to the lifter body, in the middle, and collapses the lifter, which disables the valves for that cylinder.

In a non-MDS engine, pressurized oil can be fed to the lifter bores full time instead of just during cylinder deactivation.

Thanks for that explanation. Very crazy how it works let alone work at all.

 

[Ken226]

So, the Non MDS lifters are worse than the OEM MDS ones?

OEM=Original Equipment Manufacturer= MOPAR

Mopar has both MDS and Non-MDS lifters. A standard, MDS equipped Hemi uses 8 of each.

Any lifter made my someone other than Mopar = Aftermarket. Stay away.

Whether you replace the lifters with the stock MDS setup (8 regular OEM lifters and 8 MDS OEM lifters), or if you go with MDS delete (all 16 regular non-MDS), stick with OEM (Mopar) brand lifters.

And DONT buy them on Amazon or Ebay!

 

[Wild one]

The BEST Prevention For Hemi Lifter Failure! (In My Opinion)

No one wants to experience the dreaded Hemi tick. If you are dealing with lifter failure this can be a costly repair. What are the options to help prevent it...

youtu.be

Don't fall for that myth Mike,there is no pressurized oil fed to the cam lobes or lifter rollers,they're hung out in the open and get their lube strictly from crankshaft splash.
Watch this video by Powell Machine,it's a far better video then Re-ignited's video,as he goes into pretty good detail on the hemi's crappy oiling system.

We look into the Hemi lifter failures and the dreaded Hemi tick

We unpack the lifter oiling issue that plague the late Hemi.Powellmachineinc.comIf you want to support us financially https://cash.app/$PowellMachine

www.youtube.com

 

[BlownGP]

If it's a daily driver truck,i'd just put it together with all OEM parts and call it good.Odds are a new stock cam/lifters and springs will out live the truck.Trucks almost 8 years old now,you get another 8 years out of it,that'll put it at 16 years old,and odds are by then it'll be pretty well wore out.
Going to a non-mds cam is gonna add another $1200 to $1500 more to the bill by the time you factor in unlocking the pcm / bypass cable which the 18's and newer need,then custom tuning,it's up to the OP to figure out if the extra cost is justiable to him

No, you are right. I'm already looking at a 3-4K bill if not more. I just hate for half the motor be torn down and not upgrade anything but I guess I need to put my "modification" side away for now. lol.

I do already have a bypass cable btw.

 

[Burla]

If you want to delete MDS watch this..

Is MDS Damaging Your HEMI? The Answer May Surprise You!

I feel like MDS has been unfairly made the culprit for the lifter failures we see on Gen 3 Hemi engines. In this video I explain exactly how the system works...

youtu.be

 

[BlownGP]

OEM=Original Equipment Manufacturer= MOPAR

Mopar has both MDS and Non-MDS lifters.


Any lifter made my someone other than Mopar = Aftermarket. Stay away.

Whether you replace the lifters with the stock MDS setup (8 regular OEM lifters and 8 MDS OEM lifters), or if you go with MDS delete (all 16 regular non-MDS), stick with OEM (Mopar) brand lifters.

And DONT buy them on Amazon or Ebay!

Ok,
Same for the valve springs, valve and whatever else? all Mopar right?

Right now, the shop doesnt really seem like they want to mess with the cam.
So it's fix one side or do both sides with MDS stuff.