Chrysler screwed me

[Sandevino]

Usually anything over 25% idle time is considered excessive.

Let’s put this into context as you can ask 10 experts and get 10 different answers. Excessive idling differs between gas and Diesel engines and has more to do with EPA nannies than actual engine failure.

Engine hours mean nothing to OTR diesels until you get into the 800k plus mile range. Have you ever heard a Honda or Toyota dealer or owner discuss idle vs drive hours on their engines? No, and the on board computers don’t make the information available to the driver and many Honda’s and Toyota’s have super high mileage.

Some experts say idling an engine for 1 hour (fuel not considered) can equate to as much as 120 minutes of driving. Mixed terms are used on purpose and there’s no mention of speed, terrain or load on the engine. Put into complimentary terms, idling for 60 minutes can equate to as much as 60-120 minutes of driving under specific conditions.

Let’s talk gas engines and idle and use a specific vehicle - my 2020 Ram 2500 4x4 with the 6.4L Hemi and 3.73 gears. The typical idle speed is 500-750 rpm, the typical highway idle speed is 2000 rpm at 70 mph and the vehicle averages 15mpg (hand calculated) on the highway. Driving this vehicle for an hour (60 minutes) at 70mph (70 miles) would use 4.67 gallons of gas at this rate - 70 / 15 = 4.67. Driving the same vehicle for two hours (120 minutes) at 70mph (140 miles) would use 9.34 gallons of gas at this rate - 140 / 15 = 9.34.

Let that math mull over a bit. I had over 120 idle hours on the engine built up over 12 months for varying reasons and I guarantee you I NEVER burned 9.34 gallons idling in a parking lot. This equates to burning a third of a tank of gas in an hour.

Diesel is similar but different when idling. Everything previously discussed held equal, Diesel engines become less efficient when idling at idle speed as the cylinder temps decrease resulting in burning fuel less efficiently. If a Diesel engine will be idled for a prolonged period of time, it will be idled up (1000-1300 rpm) to keep the cylinder temps up.

Keeping with diesel here, after towing or hauling heavy all engine and turbo manufacturers (Cummins, VM Motori, CAT, etc..) recommend idling the engine for 10-30 minutes depending on load to allow the turbo to cool down. Turbo and exhaust gas temperatures can exceed 1400* when towing, during regen or when hauling and the manufacturer RECOMMENDS YOU IDLE to cool the engine and turbo to prevent premature failure due to thermal load. This idling allows the cooling system to cool the engine and turbo to normal temps of approximately 400* before shutting down.

With either fuel, I call ********.

Maybe those smarter than myself meant driving at idle speed for 120 minutes? The math doesn’t work and no one drives at idle speed.

Your thoughts?

 

[Tach_tech]

That number of 25% is from FCA. We really only see issues in diesels from excessive idle time. We see lots of plugged DPF and EGR issues on trucks with high idle time.

 

[Sandevino]

That number of 25% is from FCA. We really only see issues in diesels from excessive idle time. We see lots of plugged DPF and EGR issues on trucks with high idle time.

Most of the plugged DPF and EGR issues are related to low idle speed when idling. Cummins recommends you idle at 1000-1300 rpm to keep cylinder temps up to reduce soot and prevent unburnt fuel heading to the DPF.

 

[Travelin Ram]

I say BS on idling as well. I bought a used police SUV with only 60k miles on it. Checked the hour meter after taking delivery and it’s over 10,000 hours. Do the math on that.

It’s got no engine issues either, and no one’s been into the engine.

All of this stuff is just window dressing, though. OP did not maintain the engine as required. The title of the post is inaccurate, it’s a self inflicted situation.

 

[Sandevino]

The title of the post is inaccurate, it’s a self inflicted situation.

 

[chrisbh17]

I say BS on idling as well. I bought a used police SUV with only 60k miles on it. Checked the hour meter after taking delivery and it’s over 10,000 hours. Do the math on that.

It’s got no engine issues either, and no one’s been into the engine.

All of this stuff is just window dressing, though. OP did not maintain the engine as required. The title of the post is inaccurate, it’s a self inflicted situation.

In the case of wiped cam/lifters, I think the issue of idling is that not quite enough oil is getting where it needs to go. Over time that leads to things breaking down.

So, "high idle hours" means time where the cam/lifters arent necessarily getting enough oil. Which is bad. Its kind of backed up with a lot of people that work in shops and note most of the cam failures are on construction or police type vehicles, that run at idle for extended periods of time.

 

[Travelin Ram]

In the case of wiped cam/lifters, I think the issue of idling is that not quite enough oil is getting where it needs to go. Over time that leads to things breaking down.

So, "high idle hours" means time where the cam/lifters arent necessarily getting enough oil. Which is bad. Its kind of backed up with a lot of people that work in shops and note most of the cam failures are on construction or police type vehicles, that run at idle for extended periods of time.

Correlation doesn’t mean causation, though. You could just as easily make a case that most failures relate to vehicles driven by people who don’t own them. Having run a commercial fleet maintenance shop myself, there’s a huge amount of disregard for other people’s machines when a wage slave is behind the wheel.

 

[2012RAM1500RT]

Correlation doesn’t mean causation, though. You could just as easily make a case that most failures relate to vehicles driven by people who don’t own them. Having run a commercial fleet maintenance shop myself, there’s a huge amount of disregard for other people’s machines when a wage slave is behind the wheel.

I have to agree on a lot of that. I too work in a commercial fleet garage for a construction company with people driving them that don't own them. We have GM and Dodge. So far we haven't had a cam and lifter issue with the 2012 Dodge Ram 2500 with the 5.7 with 210,000 miles (fingers crossed) 1 98 Dodge 2500 with 489,000 miles with the 5.9 gas, 1 95 Dodge 3500 with 410,000 miles. I've had to put cam and lifters in 2 of the 2004 & 2005 Chevy 1500 between 200,000 and 250,000 miles with the 5.3. They both have near 350,000 miles now. We have about 6 Chevy's so I'm not trying to compare. Can't tell you how sick it makes me to hear "It's just a work truck" from unappreciative employee's.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Wow. This is an interesting topic. I use Mobile 1, didn't know there were issues. Also what is the % of idle hours that they think are too much?


View attachment 244580

The issue isn't what is too much.

The issue is that you have to take into account idle hours and mileage when you should change your oil.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Usually anything over 25% idle time is considered excessive.

The issue is that you have to take into account idle hours and mileage when you should change your oil.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

Let’s put this into context as you can ask 10 experts and get 10 different answers. Excessive idling differs between gas and Diesel engines and has more to do with EPA nannies than actual engine failure.

Engine hours mean nothing to OTR diesels until you get into the 800k plus mile range. Have you ever heard a Honda or Toyota dealer or owner discuss idle vs drive hours on their engines? No, and the on board computers don’t make the information available to the driver and many Honda’s and Toyota’s have super high mileage.

Some experts say idling an engine for 1 hour (fuel not considered) can equate to as much as 120 minutes of driving. Mixed terms are used on purpose and there’s no mention of speed, terrain or load on the engine. Put into complimentary terms, idling for 60 minutes can equate to as much as 60-120 minutes of driving under specific conditions.

Let’s talk gas engines and idle and use a specific vehicle - my 2020 Ram 2500 4x4 with the 6.4L Hemi and 3.73 gears. The typical idle speed is 500-750 rpm, the typical highway idle speed is 2000 rpm at 70 mph and the vehicle averages 15mpg (hand calculated) on the highway. Driving this vehicle for an hour (60 minutes) at 70mph (70 miles) would use 4.67 gallons of gas at this rate - 70 / 15 = 4.67. Driving the same vehicle for two hours (120 minutes) at 70mph (140 miles) would use 9.34 gallons of gas at this rate - 140 / 15 = 9.34.

Let that math mull over a bit. I had over 120 idle hours on the engine built up over 12 months for varying reasons and I guarantee you I NEVER burned 9.34 gallons idling in a parking lot. This equates to burning a third of a tank of gas in an hour.

Diesel is similar but different when idling. Everything previously discussed held equal, Diesel engines become less efficient when idling at idle speed as the cylinder temps decrease resulting in burning fuel less efficiently. If a Diesel engine will be idled for a prolonged period of time, it will be idled up (1000-1300 rpm) to keep the cylinder temps up.

Keeping with diesel here, after towing or hauling heavy all engine and turbo manufacturers (Cummins, VM Motori, CAT, etc..) recommend idling the engine for 10-30 minutes depending on load to allow the turbo to cool down. Turbo and exhaust gas temperatures can exceed 1400* when towing, during regen or when hauling and the manufacturer RECOMMENDS YOU IDLE to cool the engine and turbo to prevent premature failure due to thermal load. This idling allows the cooling system to cool the engine and turbo to normal temps of approximately 400* before shutting down.

With either fuel, I call ********.

Maybe those smarter than myself meant driving at idle speed for 120 minutes? The math doesn’t work and no one drives at idle speed.

Your thoughts?

You're over thinking this.

Idle hours are a factor. 1 hour of idle equals 25 - 30 miles. Moble 1 is a Euro 0w 40, not recommended for the 6.4L truck.

There are a lot of people here that have a large number of idle hours and only change their oil based upon mileage, not mileage and idle hours.


https://www.automotive-fleet.com/32...en a vehicle idles for,to 30 miles of driving.

 

[Treburkulosis]

After watching the video of the hemi break down and the oil flaw that was posted on here. I was looking around on a non ram forum and spotted a thread about the hemi tick on brand new Rams on the lots. Then I was talking to several of my buddies who race and just over all are like the Ram people here. That being said, yes I do believe excessive idling may have played a roll, but from my own personal experience I ran Mobil 1 back in the early 00s in my high performance cars. At some point I believe 05ish Mobil 1 switched from the all silver bottle to the extended performance. The oil got really thin. Not saying its not a good oil, but having this exact same conversation with my race buddies and I brought this subject up. Everyone of them said the same thing. Mobil 1 is crap now. Where we all used to run it, everyone has switched to Motul or Pennzoil. Various reasons mainly noisy engines and or blown engines. Reading back in 16 Mobil 1 looked like it would help a Hemi tick. Mine was a little noisy at first. I switched to Mobil 1. I ran it all of just a few days and it was loud. Hemi tick. I immediately switched to Castrol Edge, it was quiet and no more tick. Next oil change I did seafoam and then back with Castrol. Its now gone another 70k with absolutely no issues. My idle times are around 10%. I never idle it, just because gas is expensive in it lol. It is unfortunate that this happened, but clearly reading in my owners manual it says must be API certified which Castrol edge does. Mobil 1 clearly if you download the PDF does not say anywhere that its Chrysler certified or at least that is how I am reading it. I am also on no sleep lol.

 

[HDGoose]

agreed!


here are some commas and periods, feel free to use them.
.................
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

jk, sorry to hear of the issues.

I hate missed periods!

 

[HDGoose]

Wow. This is an interesting topic. I use Mobile 1, didn't know there were issues. Also what is the % of idle hours that they think are too much?


View attachment 244580

And how do those idle hours get tabulated? I already have more idle hours on my 2020 than I did on my 2013 in 6 years and 125k miles. The 2020 EVIC tabulates differently than the 2020 does evidently.

 

[Zoe Saldana]

After watching the video of the hemi break down and the oil flaw that was posted on here. I was looking around on a non ram forum and spotted a thread about the hemi tick on brand new Rams on the lots. Then I was talking to several of my buddies who race and just over all are like the Ram people here. That being said, yes I do believe excessive idling may have played a roll, but from my own personal experience I ran Mobil 1 back in the early 00s in my high performance cars. At some point I believe 05ish Mobil 1 switched from the all silver bottle to the extended performance. The oil got really thin. Not saying its not a good oil, but having this exact same conversation with my race buddies and I brought this subject up. Everyone of them said the same thing. Mobil 1 is crap now. Where we all used to run it, everyone has switched to Motul or Pennzoil. Various reasons mainly noisy engines and or blown engines. Reading back in 16 Mobil 1 looked like it would help a Hemi tick. Mine was a little noisy at first. I switched to Mobil 1. I ran it all of just a few days and it was loud. Hemi tick. I immediately switched to Castrol Edge, it was quiet and no more tick. Next oil change I did seafoam and then back with Castrol. Its now gone another 70k with absolutely no issues. My idle times are around 10%. I never idle it, just because gas is expensive in it lol. It is unfortunate that this happened, but clearly reading in my owners manual it says must be API certified which Castrol edge does. Mobil 1 clearly if you download the PDF does not say anywhere that its Chrysler certified or at least that is how I am reading it. I am also on no sleep lol.

I believe Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0W-40 now meets MS-12633.

Does Castrol Edge 0w 40 meet ms 12633?

 

[Treburkulosis]

Let me look. Doesn't look like it unfortunately...

 

[NorthStar1]

My son also has a Ram that is just outside the two years of free oil changes that came with it when he purchased it. He called me a couple weeks ago asking if I could come over to show him how to do the gallon baggie method of changing the oil filter. As we walked into his garage I started checking to ensure the had all the necessary tools, proper oil, filter, etc., before we started the job. I saw he had seven quarts of Mobil 1...then asked him if that was for his lawn mower, generator or was messing with me. He was surprised to learn Mobil 1 doesn't meet the spec.

I think most of the younger guys remember their dads (us older guys) using Mobil 1 back in the 90's/2000's as it was THE oil back then. Now, it's like choosing perfume for your wife, your mistress and your mama...each had their own formulary and you don't dare mix them up or there will be hell to pay!!! Same with Ram oil.

 

[Treburkulosis]

My son also has a Ram that is just outside the two years of free oil changes that came with it when he purchased it. He called me a couple weeks ago asking if I could come over to show him how to do the gallon baggie method of changing the oil filter. As we walked into his garage I started checking to ensure the had all the necessary tools, proper oil, filter, etc., before we started the job. I saw he had seven quarts of Mobil 1...then asked him if that was for his lawn mower, generator or was messing with me. He was surprised to learn Mobil 1 doesn't meet the spec.

I think most of the younger guys remember their dads (us older guys) using Mobil 1 back in the 90's/2000's as it was THE oil back then. Now, it's like choosing perfume for your wife, your mistress and your mama...each had their own formulary and you don't dare mix them up or there will be hell to pay!!! Same with Ram oil.

My dad ran that and GTX in his 428 cj motor. I ran 15w50 in my 347 and 408 ford motors back in the early-mid 00s. This is how I remember it playing out.

I would say around 2002 was the first time I saw extended performance, I found it thinner than the original formula. First picture look closely at it. Then extend performance. Basically cheaper for a reason. Crap. Then in 05-06 they changed the bottle and it started saying super syn tech that is when I noticed it got super thin. I stopped using it and switched to Royal Purple. We were talking about why GM swore by Mobil 1 back in the early LS days. It was good. Something changed. They changed. Sorry, I needed to revise this to make more sense. I have my amsoil theory as well as I watched a 347 when amsoil got big go on the second oil change due to absolute crap lubrication. NA dialed in perfect. 06. I won’t open up that can of worms. I have grown up around racers, hotrodders, and fast things my entire life. I grew up building them with both grandpa and dad. I hold a certain level of quality. I’m glad pennzoil has come up. I never personally liked pennzoil anything. It was always super thin and looked like water, regular motor oil.

 

[oilslick]

Holy run on sentence Batman!

LOL!!! Seriously!!!

 

[LugsLeadOut84]

Not much love here for the 1 post wonder OP. It is always interesting when folks come here and there first post it complaining about getting screwed by FCA.

That is a huge pet peeve of mine.....Someone asks a question and gets tons of responses, answers or advice and never replies, acknowledges or throws out a general thanks, etc.