Did Redline Oil work against your Hemi Tick?

[Burla]

According to the manu they say dont go this thick for a disclaimer.

However, we have guys that recently ran oils in the 15 viscoity range in the 5.7 with nothing but great news with hemi tick, ask hemi395. Even with draining 2 quarts with your oil your viscosity would be somewhere around 13 after you put 2 quarts back 5w40 redline. Best news you are in florida, very unlikely to have any issues going thicker.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

It is very possible, the forum has established there are two ticks that can benefit from a lubrication strategy, ones that additives and base oils work against, and others that are more sensitive to viscosity. With that many miles, your tolerances can be so large the tick is more sensitive to viscosity then additives, which isn't necessarily bad news. Now, my question is how many oils have you tried and what oils were successful? Is redline the only oil that killed this tick for 2k miles? What filter are you using. Let's get more info and refine your strategy, you may be surprised where we end up. And yes it is possible your engine is shreading that oil even redline 5w30, have you ever got a uoa? A uoa would verify that, you lose viscosity with mechanical shear from something out of tolerance.

My immediate attempt would be to drain off a quart or two no more, and go back with redline 5w40. See if that helps.

Here's my take on the failing lifter. Take a look at a garage door pulley(sheave). There is a race in which ball bearings ride around. If you keep these lubed, everything functions normally. For those that are not lubed, they run dry and blowing air or lube through a lubricant starved pulley gives a black powdery dust which can been seen. Lubing the pulley now will quiet it some, at least for the time being. However, if the depletion of enough metal around the ball bearing and the race they ride in, lube will only do so much. It most likely masks the metal depletion as the space between the bearings has now increased. Thicker lube, a grease now, may make the pulleys ride smoother and truer now, but nothing will decrease the space of the depleted metal. When the space between the ball bearings becomes wide enough, the pulley will momentarily stop/pause and the cable will slip/slide through and create a noticeable noise that will be brought to your attention.
This is what I believe is happening with the lifters. Newer oils with lower viscosity depleted of the environmentally unfriendly additives of the past being subjected to long OCI's, is eventually increasing the distance between the roller bearings. The metal depletion can be seen in the wear metals being detected in the Blackstone reports. Thicker oils with more robust additive packages fill the voids between the needle bearings in the rollers, but at some point, there will be enough metal eroded that these spaces become too wide to keep the bearings close enough and the skipping/sliding over the cam lobe happens.

 

[Burla]

agreed, good points. Honestly that is why it is best to have a lubrication strategy early in an engines life, once those tolerances widen, more likely the lubrication strategy will be not as effective. Get base oils and additives on those lifters while they are young as possible, then if you have a fail, well you did all you could.

But I'd still try and save an older engine, viscosity games can possibly prolong engine life/

 

[mdc1990zr1]

agreed, good points. Honestly that is why it is best to have a lubrication strategy early in an engines life, once those tolerances widen, more likely the lubrication strategy will be not as effective. Get base oils and additives on those lifters while they are young as possible, then if you have a fail, well you did all you could.

But I'd still try and save an older engine, viscosity games can possibly prolong engine life/

Exaclty. I believe there is a Hemi tick and a ticking Hemi. A good lubrication strategy will prevent a ticking Hemi provided the Hemi tick is addressed early.

 

[HEMIMANN]

It is very possible, the forum has established there are two ticks that can benefit from a lubrication strategy, ones that additives and base oils work against, and others that are more sensitive to viscosity. With that many miles, your tolerances can be so large the tick is more sensitive to viscosity then additives, which isn't necessarily bad news. Now, my question is how many oils have you tried and what oils were successful? Is redline the only oil that killed this tick for 2k miles? What filter are you using. Let's get more info and refine your strategy, you may be surprised where we end up. And yes it is possible your engine is shreading that oil even redline 5w30, have you ever got a uoa? A uoa would verify that, you lose viscosity with mechanical shear from something out of tolerance.

My immediate attempt would be to drain off a quart or two no more, and go back with redline 5w40. See if that helps.

Sound advice.
Agree it sounds like a wear mileage change.

 

[BRDN]

That sounds very reasonable. I have never done a uao. I have tried about every 5w20 oil on the market. Every oil change will stop the tick. Most for only about 200 miles. Seriously. RL is the only oil I’ve tried in 5w30. It works immediately and last 2000 miles then it slowly comes back. RL gets expensive at $20 a quart. But if that’s what I have to do vs another engine. I have a Mobil 1 oil filter on it. I’ve tried Fram,Purolator, k&n. I’ve tried changing the filter at a thousand miles. But still 2000 is what I get. Would a different filter make a difference?

 

[mdc1990zr1]

agreed, good points. Honestly that is why it is best to have a lubrication strategy early in an engines life, once those tolerances widen, more likely the lubrication strategy will be not as effective. Get base oils and additives on those lifters while they are young as possible, then if you have a fail, well you did all you could.

But I'd still try and save an older engine, viscosity games can possibly prolong engine life/

My theory also explains why both mds and non- mds lifters are affected

 

[Wild one]

My theory also explains why both mds and non- mds lifters are affected

There's one more theory that i don't think you've considered,and that's light duty valve springs,that fatigue over time,and allow the lifter to bounce

 

[mdc1990zr1]

There's one more theory that i don't think you've considered,and that's light duty valve springs,that fatigue over time,and allow the lifter to bounce

I’ve read the forums and have that in the back of my mind should I ever open the engine up. I am just trying to be proactive with what I can do as easily as I can, such as lubrication strategy. I still believe lubrication is the primary point of attack.

There's one more theory that i don't think you've considered,and that's light duty valve springs,that fatigue over time,and allow the lifter to bounce

to further expand on what you’ve saying about the valve springs: garage door springs don’t always just snap. They start off nice and straight and strong. After repetition after repetition they become weaker. Every up and down is considered a repetition and one life is taken off of the lifespan. Eventually they will become weak like slinky’s and not have enough reserve energy to pick up a door. The point being, they become very weak before breaking but may become weak and worthless and never break.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

I’ve read the forums and have that in the back of my mind should I ever open the engine up. I am just trying to be proactive with what I can do as easily as I can, such as lubrication strategy. I still believe lubrication is the primary point of attack.

to further expand on what you’ve saying about the valve springs: garage door springs don’t always just snap. They start off nice and straight and strong. After repetition after repetition they become weaker. Every up and down is considered a repetition and one life is taken off of the lifespan. Eventually they will become weak like slinky’s and not have enough reserve energy to pick up a door. The point being, they become very weak before breaking but may become weak and worthless and never break.

It would be great if people that have changed the valve springs to post on their experiences and longevity

 

[HEMIMANN]

I’ve read the forums and have that in the back of my mind should I ever open the engine up. I am just trying to be proactive with what I can do as easily as I can, such as lubrication strategy. I still believe lubrication is the primary point of attack.

to further expand on what you’ve saying about the valve springs: garage door springs don’t always just snap. They start off nice and straight and strong. After repetition after repetition they become weaker. Every up and down is considered a repetition and one life is taken off of the lifespan. Eventually they will become weak like slinky’s and not have enough reserve energy to pick up a door. The point being, they become very weak before breaking but may become weak and worthless and never break.

Just to be official about it, engineers calls this phenomenon cyclic fatigue of materials. Most materials have an endurance limit. If the design is above the endurance limit, then the designer has calculated the number of stress cycles to failure to be enough for the expected lifetime of the customer's expectations.

Most designs are like this - designing parts to be under their endurance limit means they theoretically can last forever in use. This would result in products that are too expensive - people would not pay for them.

 

[Wild one]

It would be great if people that have changed the valve springs to post on their experiences and longevity

Not sure this applies,but i've been running the Mopar hi-po springs for years,and have never had any issues,and my truck gets raced and is set to shift at 6600 rpm.It's also MDS deleted with an aftermarket Green cam.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

Not sure this applies,but i've been running the Mopar hi-po springs for years,and have never had any issues,and my truck gets raced and is set to shift at 6600 rpm.It's also MDS deleted with an aftermarket Green cam.

You gotta keep us up to date on time and mileage

 

[mdc1990zr1]

Just to be official about it, engineers calls this phenomenon cyclic fatigue of materials. Most materials have an endurance limit. If the design is above the endurance limit, then the designer has calculated the number of stress cycles to failure to be enough for the expected lifetime of the customer's expectations.

Most designs are like this - designing parts to be under their endurance limit means they theoretically can last forever in use. This would result in products that are too expensive - people would not pay for them.

I get that. That’s why I’m trying to extend my engine’s life. The lifters, with the needle bearings seeming to be the first to fail, may be the weak link of the engine. With failures at such a wide range of miles, I can do my part and keep clean oil in the crankcase.
Another point is the oil(additive) depletion. Less exaggerated than a diesel, as the oil ages and degrades, impurities are held in suspension. Oil changed more frequent will dispose of these particles. Long oil change intervals will circulate these impurities throughout the engine. They will precipitate out into the pan and collect in corners , nooks and crannies. Theyy will also be abrasive and act like sandpaper for lack of a better term. A long OCI will increase the build up of the particles and increase the chance of lodging themselves in between the needle bearings, even if momentarily.

 

[mdc1990zr1]

There's one more theory that i don't think you've considered,and that's light duty valve springs,that fatigue over time,and allow the lifter to bounc

 

[mdc1990zr1]

You gotta keep us up to date on time and mileage

It’s easy to see a failed cam and failed lifter, but following your theory, maybe the replaced lifters should measure the value of the springs associated with them and then we can analyze that data to see if there is some correlation. Very good point of the valve springs. I often thought that the mds failed lifters may have been from the weakened and/or broken internal springs. Being so small, it wouldn’t take much to cause some bouncing on the cam when the inside of the lifter isn't up to par.

 

[Wild one]

I'm not really an advocate of oil temps much over 200,as the only thing cooling the valve springs and prolonging the life of the spring is the oil itself.The hotter the valve spring runs,the sooner it'll start to fatigue.

 

[ramffml]

Isn't the oil temp sensor still much cooler than other spots in the system? Does the entire system have to be at a certain temp to burn off the water?

 

[Wild one]

Isn't the oil temp sensor still much cooler than other spots in the system? Does the entire system have to be at a certain temp to burn off the water?

I kind of question that idea,as water evaporates even when frozen.I've been changing oil in everything from farm tractors/semi's to cars for 50 years,including old toys that i ran 160 thermostats in,and if the engine is healthy i've yet to ever find any water in the oil pan. One of the by products of burning gas in a combustion chamber is basically water,but i'd hazard a guess 99.9% of that by product is pushed out the cylinder through the exhaust valve and ends up in the exhaust system,and not in the oil pan.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I kind of question that idea,as water evaporates even when frozen.I've been changing oil in everything from farm tractors/semi's to cars for 50 years,including old toys that i ran 160 thermostats in,and if the engine is healthy i've yet to ever find any water in the oil pan. One of the by products of burning gas in a combustion chamber is basically water,but i'd hazard a guess 99.9% of that by product is pushed out the cylinder through the exhaust valve and ends up in the exhaust system,and not in the oil pan.

Correct