difficult diagnosis

[Kilo]

Hi everyone, first off thanks to all who have contributed to the extensive knowledge base of this site. For someone who does their own repairs its definitely a valuable asset and is greatly appreciated.

I can typically find just about any answer I'm looking for in previous posts but recently I've been dealing with a very specific issue and I'm not sure where else to turn. So here it goes. I drive a 2012 ram bighorn, 5.7 with 85,000 on it. Its has CAI, shorties and a magna flow muffler delete. Other than a broken exhaust bolt which led to the headers being installed I've had no real problems up till now. A week or so ago i let my ex borrow it and the water pump let go. It would loose coolant as fast as you could pour it and completely soaked my engine bay. I replaced the pump and took it for drive. I was leaving my neighborhood and i noticed the truck felt down on power so i turned around. It started running rough as hell and eventually died on me. It started back up and i limped home as it wouldn't do more than 20mph. It was throwing an intermittent cam sensor and crank sensor code so i replaced both with no luck. The truck has a hard time starting and it eventually dies. If you give it gas while idling sometimes it revs fine and other times it bogs down or dies. the battery is good, had the alternator checked and it was good as well. After reading up on problems that would cause these symptoms i convinced myself that it was something in the valve train and opened it up but everything looked fine. No broken springs or worn lifters. I did notice that when i cranked the motor one of the valves had substantially more oil coming from where the rocker arm meets the valve spring. It was noticeably different and I'm trying to figure out if this is my problem or not.
Probably should have tried diagnosing a little further before opening the heads up but it seemed obvious at the time it was a valve related issue. Id like to instal a new cam and delete MDS while its opened up but this might complicate things if the problem is in the electrical system. Just wondered if anyone had some experience with anything like this. I could use it . thanks

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

I am going to tell you something many will not agree with , but that CAI might be causing the issues ...

Just a quick search about what CAI can cause and you find this right away ...

Cold air intakes are generally a safe upgrade for a naturally aspirated engine, however, some aftermarket installations can lead to issues with surge idling and surge locking. These can result in efficiency and performance problems, cause high idling and stalling, and eventually lead to expensive engine repairs.

A lot can happen with CAI and I mentioned it before not too long ago, if it's an open CAI you probably have been sucking in a lot water, moisture and now your engine is feeling it .... I won't ever run a CAI that is open , a closed one maybe but probably only if it is oiled filter ...

 

[pacofortacos]

I would do a compression test, just to make sure it wasn't overheated too much.

Your problem could be entirely an electrical issue if the engine bay got doused in antifreeze.

 

[Kilo]

you definitely have a good point about moisture being pulled into the engine through the CAI. especially with the pump failure i experienced. Would this lead to cam and crank sensor errors though? The intake manifold had some oily residue in it but nothing major. Plugs looked good for 85k and no scaring on the cylinder walls. I know I'm missing something......
when i removed the throttle body there was some black crap all up inside and on the butterfly. I cleaned and reinstalled but the same thing happened.Truck struggled to start, idled like crap and died when i gave it gas.

don't know, the only thing i can really think to do is keep replacing parts with better ones until the problem is eliminated. While its opened up like this i really want to add a cam/delete mds. I don't think that's gonna fix this problem but crazier things have happened and I'm not sure what else to do. I don't have a mechanic i trust and if i did i don't have the money to use him. plus i like gaining the knowledge by doing it myself even if it takes a little longer to figure out what the hell is wrong///////

 

[Wild one]

Hi everyone, first off thanks to all who have contributed to the extensive knowledge base of this site. For someone who does their own repairs its definitely a valuable asset and is greatly appreciated.

I can typically find just about any answer I'm looking for in previous posts but recently I've been dealing with a very specific issue and I'm not sure where else to turn. So here it goes. I drive a 2012 ram bighorn, 5.7 with 85,000 on it. Its has CAI, shorties and a magna flow muffler delete. Other than a broken exhaust bolt which led to the headers being installed I've had no real problems up till now. A week or so ago i let my ex borrow it and the water pump let go. It would loose coolant as fast as you could pour it and completely soaked my engine bay. I replaced the pump and took it for drive. I was leaving my neighborhood and i noticed the truck felt down on power so i turned around. It started running rough as hell and eventually died on me. It started back up and i limped home as it wouldn't do more than 20mph. It was throwing an intermittent cam sensor and crank sensor code so i replaced both with no luck. The truck has a hard time starting and it eventually dies. If you give it gas while idling sometimes it revs fine and other times it bogs down or dies. the battery is good, had the alternator checked and it was good as well. After reading up on problems that would cause these symptoms i convinced myself that it was something in the valve train and opened it up but everything looked fine. No broken springs or worn lifters. I did notice that when i cranked the motor one of the valves had substantially more oil coming from where the rocker arm meets the valve spring. It was noticeably different and I'm trying to figure out if this is my problem or not.
Probably should have tried diagnosing a little further before opening the heads up but it seemed obvious at the time it was a valve related issue. Id like to instal a new cam and delete MDS while its opened up but this might complicate things if the problem is in the electrical system. Just wondered if anyone had some experience with anything like this. I could use it . thanks

When the truck is cold,make sure the rad is full,pull the rad cap and start it,and look in the radiator for bubbles in the coolant.If you see lots of bubbles,i'd do a compression test and see if any cylinders are down on compression,also get somebody to rev it up a bit,while you watch the tailpipes for white smoke,or an anti-freeze smell,all would point towards a head gasket failure,then i'd go to your local auto parts store and see if they have a kit that'll allow you check the anti-freeze for combustion by-products .It sounds like your ex might have over heated it,and warped a head on you,that's worst case scenerio though,hopefully it's not that serious.

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

you definitely have a good point about moisture being pulled into the engine through the CAI. especially with the pump failure i experienced. Would this lead to cam and crank sensor errors though? The intake manifold had some oily residue in it but nothing major. Plugs looked good for 85k and no scaring on the cylinder walls. I know I'm missing something......
when i removed the throttle body there was some black crap all up inside and on the butterfly. I cleaned and reinstalled but the same thing happened.Truck struggled to start, idled like crap and died when i gave it gas.

don't know, the only thing i can really think to do is keep replacing parts with better ones until the problem is eliminated. While its opened up like this i really want to add a cam/delete mds. I don't think that's gonna fix this problem but crazier things have happened and I'm not sure what else to do. I don't have a mechanic i trust and if i did i don't have the money to use him. plus i like gaining the knowledge by doing it myself even if it takes a little longer to figure out what the hell is wrong///////

No .. I hear yah' ... what exactly it is I have no clue like you ... but just thought I'd mention that a CAI can cause issues ... and like you said, that water pump failure could of caused the issue with the CAI ...is it an open one? which one do you have ?

 

[Kilo]

its K&N
its got a housing that's about 3/4 sealed but I'm sure it got soaked when the pump blew. when i cleaned the filter i saw anti freeze washing off it.

my first concern was that it burned up a cylinder or something along those lines. But it there are windows of about a min or two where the truck would run fine, then out of the blue engine lights start flashing and the motor looses power and eventually dies..and the amounts of time it would run healthy are inconsistent.1 min,5 min,30 sec. all over the place.
I figured that a warped head or burned cylinder would be something that was constant and noticeable all the time.

By looking for bubbles in the radiator im determining if there are internal leaks between the cooling system and combustion chambers? I just like to know why I'm doing what I'm doing. But ill definitely give it look and thanks for the tip,

The only thing i can think of now is that it didn't really start doing that until after the new pump was installed and i noticed a bit of a belt whine afterwards that wasn't there before. is it possible to over-torque something up front like water pump or alternator and have it effect the timing or something like that. i don't know just curious.

 

[Wild one]

its K&N
its got a housing that's about 3/4 sealed but I'm sure it got soaked when the pump blew. when i cleaned the filter i saw anti freeze washing off it.

my first concern was that it burned up a cylinder or something along those lines. But it there are windows of about a min or two where the truck would run fine, then out of the blue engine lights start flashing and the motor looses power and eventually dies..and the amounts of time it would run healthy are inconsistent.1 min,5 min,30 sec. all over the place.
I figured that a warped head or burned cylinder would be something that was constant and noticeable all the time.

By looking for bubbles in the radiator im determining if there are internal leaks between the cooling system and combustion chambers? I just like to know why I'm doing what I'm doing. But ill definitely give it look and thanks for the tip,

The only thing i can think of now is that it didn't really start doing that until after the new pump was installed and i noticed a bit of a belt whine afterwards that wasn't there before. is it possible to over-torque something up front like water pump or alternator and have it effect the timing or something like that. i don't know just curious.

If you reused the belt,it could be anti-freeze soaked,and could be the cause of your belt whine,a temporary fix would be to spray the pulleys with good old WD 40.If something is loose and rattling,it could cause a problem with the knock sensors,but that's usually not an issue with the front accessories,as the knock sensors are down under the exhaust manifolds in the side of the block

 

[Burla]

You let your ex drive your truck? I never let anyone drive my truck, not even my wife of 20 years, but especially not anybody who hated me enough to break up with me. You must be a better man then me.

If you are worried about a cylinder blowing up boroscope them, very easy right through spark plug hole. If you sucked water/coolant through intake, yeah that can cause a ton of stuff you wouldnt think. Did you change oil? Is the leak fixed? Do you think there is a possibility she tached the living snot out of it either on accident or purpose? Maybe she lent it to current boyfriend.

You might want to look up who gets sued if your truck kills someone you lent it to. Your ins only covers it's limits, after those limits it is on you.

 

[burner71]

Cracked block?

 

[Jwithing]

Uh... how did your ex come to realize it was leaking coolant? Was it ran until a dash light from overheating came on, or started smoking? I'd be willing to bet it was ran overheated and very overheated with the amount of coolant you said it was losing. Do you think all the coolant spewed out? If your head gasket blew, you probably have coolant in your oil. I would definitely change the oil and filter as overheating will cause oil degradation. Plus, you may be able to tell if there's coolant in the oil. Won't hurt to do a blackstone analysis to see if there's trace amounts of coolant in the oil undetectable to the naked eye. Good luck, there's some good advise on this thread.

 

[Kilo]

As far as judgement calls go I’ve never been accused of making the best ones. And right now I do feel like an idiot for not listening to everyone that told me letting her use it was a terrible idea. That said, I believe good things happen to good people when they really need it. A busted truck definitely sucks but it isn’t the worst thing a person can deal with….

As for the health of the truck I definitely intend on changing all the fluids and filters. It sounds like my next step is gonna be to eliminate heat damage to the block and heads as the cause of the problem. I don’t think it got to that point just because I drove it a little after the leak and it was running great for a bit. I’ve only been on a motorcycle that had a damaged cylinder due to excessive heat but it was obvious as soon as the bike fired up that an issue existed. I know they got smaller cylinders and less of em but I imagine a truck would behave the same as far as detecting a problem is concerned. Nevertheless, I can see the importance of being thorough in my process of elimination. I know it sounds odd but I was almost hopping it would be a mechanical issue, something I could see and understand. Problems with the electrical systems on these newer vehicles give me nightmares. Fear of the unknown I guess.

Thanks for all the good advice, even the stuff that doesn’t apply to the performance of my vehicle. I greatly appreciate it. I’ll continue my rat killin and let y’all know if there’s anything worth mentioning

 

[pacofortacos]

It could very well be electrical, the antifreeze may be interferring with grounds OR letting voltage track to places it shouldn't.
If it's still together maybe try washing down the engine and engine bay as well as degreasing it before going inside the motor.

IS it possible that the PCM got hit with antifreeze? You can disconnect the battery and then unplug and plug in all of the PCM plugs and see if that changes anything.

 

[Kilo]

Just a little update, after checking all the electrical connections I went ahead and pulled the the cam. Two of the lifters had seized up and some of the lobes had worn through whatever chrome finish is on the cam. It’s not as bad as some of the failed cams I’ve seen but there’s definitely material missing where the lifters make contact. The worst of em we’re pitting in a couple spots. Not sure if it was causing my problems but it wasn’t going to improve on its own either.

It just so happens that my bike **** the bed as well, so I’m officially out of vehicles till I get one fixed.

My plan is to put in a decent cam that doesn’t require a ton of other upgrades to function. I was thinking a comp NSR stage 1, non-msd lifters(16) and a tuner…
Then all the gaskets and hardware I’m gonna roll the dice on and either re-use or Amazon it up…

I’m not familiar with the phase lock or limiter but they don’t seem too complicated or expensive. I’m gonna look into that here shortly but any advice on the topic would be appropriated. Save me a little time digging around. Anyway thanks again for all the helpful advice.

And before anyone asks I did not loan my bike to my ex. That was all me

 

[Kilo]

here’s what the cam looked like.

 

[navyvet]

I had two cars that had similar issues. One was an 82 pontiac that ended up being a throttle position sensor. The other was my wife's Ford that ended up being a mass air flow sensor. If coolant got into your intake when the pump went they may have been affected.

 

[Dusty]

Just a little update, after checking all the electrical connections I went ahead and pulled the the cam. Two of the lifters had seized up and some of the lobes had worn through whatever chrome finish is on the cam. It’s not as bad as some of the failed cams I’ve seen but there’s definitely material missing where the lifters make contact. The worst of em we’re pitting in a couple spots. Not sure if it was causing my problems but it wasn’t going to improve on its own either.

It just so happens that my bike **** the bed as well, so I’m officially out of vehicles till I get one fixed.

My plan is to put in a decent cam that doesn’t require a ton of other upgrades to function. I was thinking a comp NSR stage 1, non-msd lifters(16) and a tuner…
Then all the gaskets and hardware I’m gonna roll the dice on and either re-use or Amazon it up…

I’m not familiar with the phase lock or limiter but they don’t seem too complicated or expensive. I’m gonna look into that here shortly but any advice on the topic would be appropriated. Save me a little time digging around. Anyway thanks again for all the helpful advice.

And before anyone asks I did not loan my bike to my ex. That was all me

Have you pulled and listed all of the stored and pending codes?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 064888 miles.

 

[Dusty]

View attachment 485756here’s what the cam looked like.

I've seen a heck of a lot worse, even at 85K. The lobe in the center of the picture looks like damage from a piece of metal that got between the lifter roller and the lobe. I would suggest inspecting the MDS solenoids for damaged or missing screens.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 03 June 2018. Now at: 064888 miles.

 

[Kilo]

here’s a quick update for anyone curious

I put in a new cam, lifters(non mds) timing set and phase limiter. MDS was also deleted and solenoids replaced with plugs. Hit all electrical connections with contact cleaner and plugged it all back up. Then I was able to load a canned Diablo tune from a predator platinum. To my surprise the truck fired up and stayed running. Followed the break in procedure and about to change oil and filter.

I’m not sure if the problem was electrical or mechanical but it seems to be fixed. Either the cam/lifters were to blame or possibly a bad connection or ecu malfunction due to the coolant bath my engine took. Either way it’s running now, a little rough, but it’s running. I’m guessing a custom tune will smooth things out as the cam requires one based on manufacturers instructions.

So Thanks to everyone who helped me directly and all that share knowledge on this site. This website is an extremely valuable asset and it is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sherman Bird]

its K&N
its got a housing that's about 3/4 sealed but I'm sure it got soaked when the pump blew. when i cleaned the filter i saw anti freeze washing off it.

my first concern was that it burned up a cylinder or something along those lines. But it there are windows of about a min or two where the truck would run fine, then out of the blue engine lights start flashing and the motor looses power and eventually dies..and the amounts of time it would run healthy are inconsistent.1 min,5 min,30 sec. all over the place.
I figured that a warped head or burned cylinder would be something that was constant and noticeable all the time.

By looking for bubbles in the radiator im determining if there are internal leaks between the cooling system and combustion chambers? I just like to know why I'm doing what I'm doing. But ill definitely give it look and thanks for the tip,

The only thing i can think of now is that it didn't really start doing that until after the new pump was installed and i noticed a bit of a belt whine afterwards that wasn't there before. is it possible to over-torque something up front like