Electric car owners causing more emissions overall, research shows

[Yardbird]

Electric car owners causing more emissions overall, research shows​

2 min read

While electric vehicles emit less carbon than other cars, their drivers typically cause more overall pollutant emissions than those who drive petrol or diesel, a team of researchers in Finland has found.

The reason is that electric vehicles (EVs) are usually more expensive than a petrol or diesel equivalent. This means they are beyond many household budgets and largely limited to people whose so-called carbon footprint is higher than the general population due to them having more money to spend.

In work published by the journal PLOS Climate, the researchers said "electric vehicle owners on average are richer, drive more than the general population, and have a higher than average carbon footprint due to higher disposable income."

"Owning an EV reduces their traffic related emissions, and their personal experience of EVs is linked with positive attitudes and purchase intention," according the University of Turku team, which surveyed almost 4,000 people in Finland.

The researchers reported that the "high purchasing cost was perceived as one of the major drawbacks of electric vehicles." Prices look set to increase in Europe after the European Union imposed tariffs on Chinese-made EVs, which are less-expensive than other models, a difference the EU contends is down Beijing's hefty subsidies undercutting European car-makers, who have also warned that Europe does not have enough electric charging points.

China’s power grid relies far more on coal and other fossil fuels than Europe’s, where policymakers are implementing rules requiring increasing use of wind and solar power and are setting targets for the car industry to phase out combustion engines in favour of EVs.

China is also the world’s biggest coal-burning nation and accounted for more than 90% of the world’s new coal-fired power plant construction last year, according to Global Energy Monitor.

The PLOS report came hot on the heels of a report by a Cambridge University-led team of researchers that showed the carbon footprint of the poor as being "vastly" exaggerated while that of wealthy people is played down.

Published in the journal Nature Climate Change and drawing on a survey of over 4,000 people in Denmark, India, Nigeria and the US, the researchers found the "vast majority" of people "grossly" underestimate the carbon footprint of society's richest people while "drastically" overestimating that of the least well off.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/t...S&cvid=69bbcaf1a9284671b37c6d6ac5ca8451&ei=41

 

[Brrielly]

Carefully reading this reveals that it's not the EV causing more emissions but the owners in general have more money and a higher carbon footprint. The title should read, the wealthy contribute more to climate change than the poor. I'm not arguing for or against EV's as there are good and bad things about them. Hopefully the technology improves and it all pans out, if not then back to the drawing board i guess.

 

[diymirage]

Carefully reading this reveals that it's not the EV causing more emissions but the owners in general have more money and a higher carbon footprint. The title should read, the wealthy contribute more to climate change than the poor. I'm not arguing for or against EV's as there are good and bad things about them. Hopefully the technology improves and it all pans out, if not then back to the drawing board i guess.

It almost sounds like the author is saying those evil rich people, who have money to spend, feel bad about enjoying life and buy a EV to appease thier conscience

 

[Docwagon1776]

Well...yeah.

Which is more carbon neutral, a new Cybertruck or a 5 year old used Hyundai? For lack of a better term, the second owner is enjoying 'carbon depreciation' as the energy expense for the entire supply chain and manufacturing process is already done on that Hyundai.

Who's living in a bigger house? Cybertruck bro or 5 year old Hyundai guy?

Who's flying more? Taking cruises? More likely to own a yacht? Buying more stuff imported on barges, etc?

Seems pretty obvious to me. The question is, if someone owns both a fancy ICE and an EV...which are they counted as?

 

[GTyankee]

Cyber Trucks have become a Garage Ornament again.

Owners were told to park them until they can find a FIX
for accelerator, back up camera, windshield wipers, ...

 

[skates15]

All they've done is swap the smog from the cars tail pipe to the electric plant. Yes, some EV owners who get their electricity from 100% renewable sources will have lower emmisions but that is not the majority and renewable sources have their own environmental issues, such as how to dispose of the toxic chemicals in wind generators once they are done.

 

[Docwagon1776]

It almost sounds like the author is saying those evil rich people, who have money to spend, feel bad about enjoying life and buy a EV to appease thier conscience

That's how they are marketed. Same for single use plastic and the recycle campaigns. Single use plastic is pretty much never properly recycled and never has been, but the makers have pushed recycling as the answer for decades. It lets people enjoy the benefits but have plausible deniability to the impact.

 

[diymirage]

Cyber Trucks have become a Garage Ornament again.

Owners were told to park them until they can find a FIX
for accelerator, back up camera, windshield wipers, ...

Driveway ornament...too dangerous to let sit inside

 

[JohnBike]

More lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Statistician: someone who can draw a mathematically precise line from an unwarranted assumption to a foregone conclusion.

 

[JosephPukala]

Off topic. Here downtown there are many parking spots you have to pay to park. Unless you have an EV. Then you park for free and you can charge for free too. Yesterday I watch people park at the library plug the cars in and walk to work. So now we are also subsidizing their gas money. I even saw someone plugged into a Publix by the trash compactor the other day just stealing power from Publix.

 

[Yardbird]

Off topic. Here downtown there are many parking spots you have to pay to park. Unless you have an EV. Then you park for free and you can charge for free too. Yesterday I watch people park at the library plug the cars in and walk to work. So now we are also subsidizing their gas money. I even saw someone plugged into a Publix by the trash compactor the other day just stealing power from Publix.

So, you're saying these socially conscious people saving the planet have no qualms about stealing?.....

 

[GTyankee]

After FORCING Plastic Bags on US & charging a dime for each bag,

California has decided to BAN Plastic Bags

They FINALLY decided that plastic never fully dissolves & we are eating little bits of plastic.
They have known about the bits of plastic in Fish for a long time.

Someone did a study on recycled plastics,
They discovered that even plastic bottles that were crushed at recycling centers & shipped out to where ever.
Only some of those bottles are reused, the rest go to city Dumps.
The trashed bottles do have the recycle thing imprinted on them
ie: PETE & the recycle triangle thingy

 

[Docwagon1776]

After FORCING Plastic Bags on US & charging a dime for each bag,

California has decided to BAN Plastic Bags

They FINALLY decided that plastic never fully dissolves & we are eating little bits of plastic.
They have known about the bits of plastic in Fish for a long time.

Someone did a study on recycled plastics,
They discovered that even plastic bottles that were crushed at recycling centers & shipped out to where ever.
Only some of those bottles are reused, the rest go to city Dumps.
The trashed bottles do have the recycle thing imprinted on them
ie: PETE & the recycle triangle thingy

Mentioned it above. Nobody wants recycled plastic, it's not economically viable because the bottles contain multiple types of plastic between the bottle itself, the label, and the cap. You'd have to have someone disassemble and sort all of that, then wash it, then melt it down. Most "recycled" plastic is waste plastic at the original factory that's remelted and runs through the process again. "Post-consumer" recycled is what people want to believe is recycled plastic, but it's nearly all pre-consumer.

I wonder if we'll return to glass bottles at some point, which actually are fairly easy to reuse and recycle. The down side, besides perhaps cost, is weight and breakage. More weight is more energy used in shipping.

We buy most of our groceries at Costco anyway, so no bags of any kind unless you take your own.

 

[JosephPukala]

So, you're saying these socially conscious people saving the planet have no qualms about stealing?.....

It appears so

 

[JosephPukala]

Mentioned it above. Nobody wants recycled plastic, it's not economically viable because the bottles contain multiple types of plastic between the bottle itself, the label, and the cap. You'd have to have someone disassemble and sort all of that, then wash it, then melt it down. Most "recycled" plastic is waste plastic at the original factory that's remelted and runs through the process again. "Post-consumer" recycled is what people want to believe is recycled plastic, but it's nearly all pre-consumer.

I wonder if we'll return to glass bottles at some point, which actually are fairly easy to reuse and recycle. The down side, besides perhaps cost, is weight and breakage. More weight is more energy used in shipping.

We buy most of our groceries at Costco anyway, so no bags of any kind unless you take your own.

Have you noticed the cardboard lately? More often these days when I have large cardboard boxes stored indoors they smell exactly like a dumpster.

 

[Dusty]

I think the real emissions issues with electric vehicles is the life cycle impact. Certain rare earth elements used in making the batteries cause extreme acquisition damage to the environment, and disposing of many of those elements is also an emissions point.

(I know, the 'game changing' "super" battery technology is just around the corner, and the disposal/recycle technology is going to solve these issues.)

But other factors might make even these points irrelevant in the future.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 120955 miles.

 

[GTyankee]

I saw a film about Ships:
They have to bring solid trash back to port.
Apparently they have some kind of pressure cooker / waffle maker, type thing.
You put the used plastics in a cooker & heat it up to a thick liquid, they pour the liquid in a cast. When it cools off, you end up with a stackable wafer of solid plastic.
When they get to Port they just unload it.
I would have to think, that once onshore, some company could reheat the wafers, add some coloring, & make things like those sturdy Park Benches & Tables.

 

[Dusty]

I saw a film about Ships:
They have to bring solid trash back to port.
Apparently they have some kind of pressure cooker / waffle maker, type thing.
You put the used plastics in a cooker & heat it up to a thick liquid, they pour the liquid in a cast. When it cools off, you end up with a stackable wafer of solid plastic.
When they get to Port they just unload it.
I would have to think, that once onshore, some company could reheat the wafers, add some coloring, & make things like those sturdy Park Benches & Tables.

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View attachment 553079

Good question, why can't all plastics be recycled. So I asked Google and here is a list of why-nots:

Most plastics are not recyclable due to the following reasons123:

1. Difficulty in collection: Plastic waste is extremely difficult to collect.
2. Sorting challenges: Plastics are virtually impossible to sort for recycling.
3. Environmental impact: Reprocessing plastics is environmentally harmful.
4. Toxic materials: Plastics are made of and contaminated by toxic materials.
5. Economic feasibility: Recycling plastics is often not economical.

Although color could be a problem, I believe glass is completely recyclable, but probably more expensive by today's standard and not cost effective.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 120980 miles.

 

[GTyankee]

So, everyone is letting the next person worry about it, meaning Plastics

For a long time, people were concerned about rubber tires, especially the steel belted tires.

Someone figured it out, they made very expensive machines that chop the rubber tires up, at some point everything passes over huge magnets that attract the metal & the rubber & metal are seperated.

The rubber itself is chewed up into small pieces.
Those pieces are used in several places, playgrounds pellets, horse paths & likely Tracks.

It can also be used in the making of asphalt roads, they mix it in with the hot asphalt & then spread out & compacted it.
It helps the road last longer & using it makes your tires last longer

 

[Dusty]

So, everyone is letting the next person worry about it, meaning Plastics

For a long time, people were concerned about rubber tires, especially the steel belted tires.

Someone figured it out, they made very expensive machines that chop the rubber tires up, at some point everything passes over huge magnets that attract the metal & the rubber & metal are seperated.

The rubber itself is chewed up into small pieces.
Those pieces are used in several places, playgrounds pellets, horse paths & likely Tracks.

It can also be used in the making of asphalt roads, they mix it in with the hot asphalt & then spread out & compacted it.
It helps the road last longer & using it makes your tires last longer

Usually the viability of any recycling program is cost or practicality based. In the case of plastics there appears to be other disincentives, such emissions issues. Can it be done? I'm sure it can but there will need to be some economic driving force, or, governmental intervention.

In my position as Manager of Standards and Service Strategy for my company, I can attest how difficult is was to conform to European ROHS standards. It took five years or better to find coatings and material suppliers that could be certified. In some cases certain components that could not be landfilled or recycled in Europe had to be returned to us because we were the manufacturing point.

So while it might appear on the surface to be an easy thing, recycling some material may not be strategically supported or currently cost effective.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33-gallon fuel tank, 18” wheels. Build Date: 3 June 2018. Now at 121012 miles.