Exhaust help

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

hemi07yellow

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Posts
9
Reaction score
0
Ram Year
2007
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Need exhaust ideas! I'm putting longtubes in soon and need to know what mufflers to use. And should I keep the cats or take them out? If I take them out will I need to have a custom tune for it? And I want my truck loud. I have supper 44's now and I'm not satisfied at all. I hear hemis need back pressure so what's the loudest muffler with the back pressure I need?
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,707
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
Best bang for buck setup would be Pacesetter Longtubes, Pacesetter Y-pipe, No cats, Cutout on the back of the Y-pipe, to a Magnaflow 18-24" muffler. If you want loud, then is is exactly what you need. Open the cutout for a very mean sounding exhaust, and close it for a mellow rumble while cruising with the family. You will need to tun around the missing cats though.
 
OP
OP
H

hemi07yellow

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Posts
9
Reaction score
0
Ram Year
2007
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Can anyone tune it for that or somewhere special? I have an Intune so can diablo do it for me?
 
OP
OP
H

hemi07yellow

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Posts
9
Reaction score
0
Ram Year
2007
Engine
Hemi 5.7
And I'm assuming they really don't need back pressure if you can have cut outs on it?
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,707
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
The only reason to need custom tuning for a cutout is if you put them in front of the cats and are forced to turn off your rear o2 sensors. If you put it at the back of the y-pipe (after the cats), then it is completely plug-n-play with no special tuning required.

Backpressure is a funny word that is commonly used wrong. These motors love to breathe. More air in, more air out, means more power to the wheels. If you can bypass a restrictive muffler, then it is going to make more power. For your setup, I would just go with a single cutout after the cats...simple and effective.
 

ramhunter9

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Posts
24,460
Reaction score
983
Ram Year
2012
Engine
P-Star Jeep Wrangler
Yes BP is needed IMO you need a custom tune check hemifever tuning in the vendor section.
As for systems Matt is correct a cut out is great if you want loud and obnoxious
If looking for a great sounding system look into magnaflow cat back or full system. I sell allot of them and offer headers to go with it. If interested send me a pm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OP
OP
H

hemi07yellow

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Posts
9
Reaction score
0
Ram Year
2007
Engine
Hemi 5.7
All I see on hemi fever custom tunes are for the predator. Would it work for the Intune also?
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,707
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
Yes. The predator and Intune both use the same CMR software. Sean can get you taken care of.
 

Belgiquebasterd

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Posts
111
Reaction score
24
Ram Year
2003
Engine
Inertia 392
Engine backpressure is myth, no engine needs back pressure, having back pressure can cause the exhaust gasses to flow back into the combustion chamber during valve overlap (short period where both intake and exhaust valves are opened)

What and engine need is velocity and flow, flow being the ability to get rid of large amounts of exhaust gases, velocity being the velocity of the exhaust gasses. Smaller pipes increase velocity but hinder flow at high rpm's, bigger pipes have less velocity but flow better at high rpms. Finding the balance point between these two is the trick in a good exhaust. (remember yamaha's exup exhaust sytem, that had a valve in the exhaust so you could have both good velocity at low rpm and high flow at high rpm)

The backpressure myth started when people swapped out their stock exhaust for stupid big pipes and then noticably lost power, what in fact robs their power is not the lack of back pressure but the lack of velocity at low rpm.

I by no means want pretend to be an expert, I'm just also researching headers/exhausts,... planning to do my own and found a lot of very good info, if you google engine backpressure (try the site speedtalk.com, awesome info on that forum) a lot better explanations than mine will be found, but basically 'an engine needs backpressure' is simply not true.
 

Got_Hemi44

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Posts
76
Reaction score
8
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Ram Year
2006
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Best bang for buck setup would be Pacesetter Longtubes, Pacesetter Y-pipe, No cats, Cutout on the back of the Y-pipe, to a Magnaflow 18-24" muffler. If you want loud, then is is exactly what you need. Open the cutout for a very mean sounding exhaust, and close it for a mellow rumble while cruising with the family. You will need to tun around the missing cats though.

This is my setup exactly. Exhaust dumps right after the rear axle. As far as no cats, you don't need a tune. You can run non-foulers stuffed with 0000 steel wool to prevent throwing codes.
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,707
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
You can run non-foulers stuffed with 0000 steel wool to prevent throwing codes.

I did the same on my 03, but it would still trip an o2 code every now and then. Its just nice to have a tuner completely disable the rear o2's so you dont have to worry about it.
 

Got_Hemi44

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Posts
76
Reaction score
8
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Ram Year
2006
Engine
Hemi 5.7
I did the same on my 03, but it would still trip an o2 code every now and then. Its just nice to have a tuner completely disable the rear o2's so you dont have to worry about it.

Mine went off only twice after installing them a little over a year ago and haven't had any codes since. It seems to be hit or miss.
 

truckin151

Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Posts
5,712
Reaction score
257
Location
Arizona
Ram Year
2013 sport
Engine
5.7
Engine backpressure is myth, no engine needs back pressure, having back pressure can cause the exhaust gasses to flow back into the combustion chamber during valve overlap (short period where both intake and exhaust valves are opened)

What and engine need is velocity and flow, flow being the ability to get rid of large amounts of exhaust gases, velocity being the velocity of the exhaust gasses. Smaller pipes increase velocity but hinder flow at high rpm's, bigger pipes have less velocity but flow better at high rpms. Finding the balance point between these two is the trick in a good exhaust. (remember yamaha's exup exhaust sytem, that had a valve in the exhaust so you could have both good velocity at low rpm and high flow at high rpm)

The backpressure myth started when people swapped out their stock exhaust for stupid big pipes and then noticably lost power, what in fact robs their power is not the lack of back pressure but the lack of velocity at low rpm.

I by no means want pretend to be an expert, I'm just also researching headers/exhausts,... planning to do my own and found a lot of very good info, if you google engine backpressure (try the site speedtalk.com, awesome info on that forum) a lot better explanations than mine will be found, but basically 'an engine needs backpressure' is simply not true.

I can tell you this much. Pre-cam, when I did my lt's I kept the cats off, it was a stumbling mess off the line, slow as hell, and that's through the muffler. Through the cutout you can be loud but you'll be slow. Yes more air in, more air out = more HP, that HP gain though is moved way up in the rpm range though. Put the cats back in lowend came back, times improved. With a big cam and heads I can see removing them, on a basically stock truck, keep them on. The smell of the unburned hydrocarbons is obnoxious too.
 

Belgiquebasterd

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Posts
111
Reaction score
24
Ram Year
2003
Engine
Inertia 392
I can tell you this much. Pre-cam, when I did my lt's I kept the cats off, it was a stumbling mess off the line, slow as hell, and that's through the muffler. Through the cutout you can be loud but you'll be slow. Yes more air in, more air out = more HP, that HP gain though is moved way up in the rpm range though. Put the cats back in lowend came back, times improved. With a big cam and heads I can see removing them, on a basically stock truck, keep them on. The smell of the unburned hydrocarbons is obnoxious too.

No argue there, but it's not the lack of back pressure that made you loose power :), if the cutout it located in the correct position and all the pipes/cutout have the right diameter you'll have more power.
 

Budakane

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Posts
1,720
Reaction score
196
Location
Northern VA
Ram Year
2007
Engine
345ci Hemi
This is my setup, just gotta switch the magnaflow with a Cherry Bomb...lol. I run with my cutouts open all the time, and feel no power loss....but then again I also have 4:56s. Tuning is aloways a plus
Best bang for buck setup would be Pacesetter Longtubes, Pacesetter Y-pipe, No cats, Cutout on the back of the Y-pipe, to a Magnaflow 18-24" muffler. If you want loud, then is is exactly what you need. Open the cutout for a very mean sounding exhaust, and close it for a mellow rumble while cruising with the family. You will need to tun around the missing cats though.
 

truckin151

Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Posts
5,712
Reaction score
257
Location
Arizona
Ram Year
2013 sport
Engine
5.7
Correct, however one would think that the Pacesetter longtube headers that come with a 3" collector, the pacesetter 3" ORY pipe that is meant to go along with the kit, into a 3" cutout & a 3" SI/SO high flow muffler, that the system should have been free'd up enough to get the right amount of flow from it. When I added the cats back in, I opened them up so they were 3" in/out instead of the 2-1/2in 2-1/4out that they were. So in terms of pipe size everything was the same, so no restrictions in pipe diameter that would speed up the velocity, only difference is the slight restriction that the cat's internals made. The restriction is basically the same as someone running a baffled muffler as well (so basically one that you cant stick your arm through like mine). The result of that is pressure being built up in the system, which then increases the velocity. This is also the case when going from a larger pipe to a smaller pipe, yes you gain velocity but in order to gain that velocity pressure must be built up first.

Look at water pipes or even your hose for example. When the water is just coming straight out of the hose, no nossel, there is no restrictions in the system (minus that from the hose itself) so it flows normal and will shoot out 3ft or so, if you add a nossel to the end of the hose (smaller pipe in terms of exhaust) to make the stream more fine the velocity of the water increases dramatically and will shoot 20ft or more. If you feel the hose though, the pressure needed to make that velocity is a good amount more than that of it flowing regularly. Same goes for when you stick you finger in front of the stream coming out of a non-restricted hose (adding a baffled muffler in terms of exhaust) you can make it shoot farther but the pressure builds up in the hose. This is where we get term "back pressure" from.

If you turn the hose on higher (giving the engine some gas) you increase the velocity and flow coming from the source, this also creates pressure. Even with no physical restrictions, the hose (pipe) and any bends creates a pressure build up at the source. So while you are correct, if the pipe size is the right size for the system you dont need any restrictions in the line because it is getting its optimal pressure from the piping itself, the problem is a stock motor wont put out enough to create that optimal pressure with just the piping alone, so to get it, you either need to adjust pipe size or add a way to build up that pressure to make the velocity match the flow rate.

I do a lot of water line designs and the concept is the same.
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,707
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
Correct, however one would think that the Pacesetter longtube headers that come with a 3" collector, the pacesetter 3" ORY pipe that is meant to go along with the kit, into a 3" cutout & a 3" SI/SO high flow muffler, that the system should have been free'd up enough to get the right amount of flow from it. When I added the cats back in, I opened them up so they were 3" in/out instead of the 2-1/2in 2-1/4out that they were. So in terms of pipe size everything was the same, so no restrictions in pipe diameter that would speed up the velocity, only difference is the slight restriction that the cat's internals made. The restriction is basically the same as someone running a baffled muffler as well (so basically one that you cant stick your arm through like mine). The result of that is pressure being built up in the system, which then increases the velocity. This is also the case when going from a larger pipe to a smaller pipe, yes you gain velocity but in order to gain that velocity pressure must be built up first.

Look at water pipes or even your hose for example. When the water is just coming straight out of the hose, no nossel, there is no restrictions in the system (minus that from the hose itself) so it flows normal and will shoot out 3ft or so, if you add a nossel to the end of the hose (smaller pipe in terms of exhaust) to make the stream more fine the velocity of the water increases dramatically and will shoot 20ft or more. If you feel the hose though, the pressure needed to make that velocity is a good amount more than that of it flowing regularly. Same goes for when you stick you finger in front of the stream coming out of a non-restricted hose (adding a baffled muffler in terms of exhaust) you can make it shoot farther but the pressure builds up in the hose. This is where we get term "back pressure" from.

If you turn the hose on higher (giving the engine some gas) you increase the velocity and flow coming from the source, this also creates pressure. Even with no physical restrictions, the hose (pipe) and any bends creates a pressure build up at the source. So while you are correct, if the pipe size is the right size for the system you dont need any restrictions in the line because it is getting its optimal pressure from the piping itself, the problem is a stock motor wont put out enough to create that optimal pressure with just the piping alone, so to get it, you either need to adjust pipe size or add a way to build up that pressure to make the velocity match the flow rate.

I do a lot of water line designs and the concept is the same.

have you done any back to back testing with this at the track or on the dyno? Back in 04, I was 1 of the first to run a cutout on these trucks. At the time, my mods consisted of Hedman longtubes, 3" y-pipe without cats, 3" cutout at the back of the y-pipe, to flowmaster 10 series muffler. Also had a cold air intake and a superchips tuner. On the dyno I gained 12hp/12tq with the cutout open vs. closed. I then took it to the track and dropped .3 off my ET with the cutout open vs closed. All this was on my 03 rc/sb 5.7.

I also thought that I had lost power with the cutout, but all the track and dyno numbers proved otherwise. I think that the added noise makes it feel like it should be going faster than it really is.
 
Back
Top