Exhaust Manifolds | Warped

[TomT]

I really hope they didn't just switch to a higher strength bolt without addressing the warping issue. I would much rather have a bolt break than to have a stronger bolt rip out the threads inside the head.

 

[Burla]

BD Diesel makes great manifolds to solve this problem. The hardware is better also. Makes sure you get the correct ones. Passenger side on DS & DT are not the same. Just replaced mine and yes, they are warped. Previous owner must have replaced them already because the bolts weren't factory and heat shields were missing.

You may be on to something here. What convinced about the science that this will work. Looks like they added material weight to mani plus high temp metalurgy, I totally subscribe to that.

 

[PA Ram]

You may be on to something here. What convinced about the science that this will work. Looks like they added material weight to mani plus high temp metalurgy, I totally subscribe to that.

Heftier and addressed snapping bolts by adding a collar to each bolt to allow expansion without snapping.

 

[Burla]

Very helpful @Jeepwalker to document all that work. Most people I know around here have done this.

Pretty sure bolt breakage is a 100% surety on Hemi engines. It's just a bad design. I explored long tube headers, but after researching the cost of the parts and install I decided against. I have a heavy duty with the 6.4 Hemi. This engine is sunk lower into the higher frame in the heavy duty and is harder to get at, so I had an indie shop with hoists remove the manifolds. Then got them machined flat and reinstalled. No problems since.

I also explored BD Diesel manifolds, but they lack the EGR port on the left bank. Rick tells me the 6.4 retained EGR for lower combustion temp for engine longevity. But of course the EGR cooler plugs up. How is an engine more "durable" by adding a failure mechanism? *sigh*

For some reason the 6.4 option is not 50 state, but the 5.7 option is... shrug

 

[Sherman Bird]

I would definitely agree on the alloy composition......If we do prototype work and can't wait for the alloyed material like 8620.
Our parts will warp after machining from stress of the material removed.

I'm a really old fart. I remember the days that cast iron in engine components held up for LONG times.
Then, in about 1977, GM decided to reduce dramatically the nickel content of engine blocks and cylinder heads.
The results were catastrophic... heads and block began cracking profusely, even though they were not overheated.

Now, I would think that whatever shavetail out of engineering school who enacted this wet dream would be summarily fired. But, given the bizarre nature of the greed of the shareholders, maybe the young engineer was promoted.

So, here we are nearly 50 years later, and whaddaya know?

 

[EdGs]

I'm a really old fart. I remember the days that cast iron in engine components held up for LONG times.
Then, in about 1977, GM decided to reduce dramatically the nickel content of engine blocks and cylinder heads.
The results were catastrophic... heads and block began cracking profusely, even though they were not overheated.

Now, I would think that whatever shavetail out of engineering school who enacted this wet dream would be summarily fired. But, given the bizarre nature of the greed of the shareholders, maybe the young engineer was promoted.

So, here we are nearly 50 years later, and whaddaya know?

Wasn't also around that time that GM also decided to convert thrier gasoline engine components to diesel???

We all know how that worked out. I had a buddy with a late '70s - early '80s Suburban 350 diesel. One day, a connecting rod decided to abort itself, right out of the engine and into the world.....lol

Engineer probably got promoted AND is running the company.......lol

 

[PA Ram]

I'm a really old fart. I remember the days that cast iron in engine components held up for LONG times.
Then, in about 1977, GM decided to reduce dramatically the nickel content of engine blocks and cylinder heads.
The results were catastrophic... heads and block began cracking profusely, even though they were not overheated.

Now, I would think that whatever shavetail out of engineering school who enacted this wet dream would be summarily fired. But, given the bizarre nature of the greed of the shareholders, maybe the young engineer was promoted.

So, here we are nearly 50 years later, and whaddaya know?

He was definitely promoted

 

[Sherman Bird]

For some reason the 6.4 option is not 50 state, but the 5.7 option is... shrug

It's possible that is a holdover from the original mandates about electronic engine controls.
In 1979, GM introduced "C3"..... Computer Command Control over the fuel and ignition events in cars. This was in answer to 2 states that REQUIRED more stringent emissions reduction. California was one, and I think New Jersey may have been the other, but I', not certain.
The other "48" states followed these requirements as of 1981 production. That whole debacle was nightmarish. Cars had 8 to one compression on a good day, horsepower was profoundly effete, and we were in the midst of the changeover from leaded to unleaded gas.

Those were the days that GM would occasionally fly engineers down here to Houston, Texas (Pasadena, actually) to their training facility at the San Jacinto College campus.

Also, H. Ross Perot owned the company, EDS, which was under contract to make the PCM's for the GM lineup. GM would specify HOW the computers to be manufactured, and in Perot's independent stubbornness, he (Perot) who had been with IBM prior, was going to make computers HIS way. In those days the PCM's failed like flies doused with RAID.

GM's answer to it was to buy out Perot for 4 billion dollars!

So, getting back to the point, one must wonder where the lack of quality in castings went south!

 

[Grams]

Wasn't also around that time that GM also decided to convert thrier gasoline engine components to diesel???

We all know how that worked out. I had a buddy with a late '70s - early '80s Suburban 350 diesel. One day, a connecting rod decided to abort itself, right out of the engine and into the world.....lol

Engineer probably got promoted AND is running the company.......lol

Rams are not ‘GM” …so I don’t know that the scenario mentioned is either legit or applicable….

 

[EdGs]

Rams are not ‘GM” …so I don’t know that the scenario mentioned is either legit or applicable….

Wow, really?

 

[Sherman Bird]

Rams are not ‘GM” …so I don’t know that the scenario mentioned is either legit or applicable….

If you ever saw a Ford performance 9 inch differential, You'd see a 1 inch embossed "N" on the case. This is the signatory of a high nickel content cast iron casting for high horsepower/ torque capacity. A Chevy 350 engine block that was sought by racers, back in the day, had the numbers "010" cast into the rear of the block on top of the bell housing flange.
All manufacturers enhanced strength of cast iron, especially for high performance.
It is a known fact that they all played around with lower nickel content castings in the "malaise" years of cars, and that was fraught with negative consequences.
I'm not sure how Chrysler signified high nickel content, but you can be sure that the 426 HEMI had high nickel in it's castings.

It is painfully obvious these past 10-15 years that manufacturers are skimping om metals quality. Look at Cadillac's Northstar engines.

So, this is just meant to shed light on an issue of poor castings across the playing field, not picking fly $hit out of pepper.

 

[Grams]

Perhaps because so much is sourced off-shore these days….?

 

[Grams]

deleted

 

[EdGs]

Well, if you can save 50 cents worth of nickel per engine block, the savings across the run are enormous.

But, there could be disadvantages (and consequences), too. Ones that show up way later.

 

[Sherman Bird]

Well, if you can save 50 cents worth of nickel per engine block, the savings across the run are enormous.

But, there could be disadvantages (and consequences), too. Ones that show up way later.

I remember the "old" cast iron parts of many things "way back when".
Seems that manufacturers were really focused on the true comfort and convenience of the consumer, and they made a decent living.
Fast forward to that very, myopic rationale of a small amount times X-million, and snot=nosed corporate greed, and we find ourselves mired in the likes of the Northstar engine, chinchy castings, and "It'll do" single use parts. And we have today's garbage... and massively more expensive.

All the industries had to do is permeate the market to the point of saturation, and we are left with bad, or worse choices.

I also remember being able to buy the sub- one dollar material to repair a ruptured diaphragm in a fuel pump.

Bring back Hee Haw!

 

[KansasArt]

Perhaps because so much is sourced off-shore these days….

Doesn’t matter if it’s outsourced or made in USA. The manufacturers set the specifications that the product is made to.

 

[Grams]

Doesn’t matter if it’s outsourced or made in USA. The manufacturers set the specifications that the product is made to.

“Quality-Control” …is not simply checking/inspecting the product AFTER it’s completed. THAT activity is “Acceptance Inspection”.

Real Quality CONTROL ….is an activity incumbent upon the production-worker AS the product is created.

 

[crazy jerry]

I do not trust brands. Instead, I spend the time to do my research. Recently, I did a brake job with rotors on a 2010 Shelby GT500.

Shelby American's price for the "kit" or package was about 3 grand. Knowing that Brembo is the maker of those parts, I found them directly from Brembo for that particular application at roughly half the price of SA.

I did research on other brands, and found that they left out engineering data germane to the carbon content of the rotors and the friction co-efficiency indicator of the pads, and the so-called "pros" had no clue as to my need to know both Graphite (carbon) content AND the 2-letter friction code on the pads .


Inasmuch as this car was/is a race car with license plates, I wasn't given to any form of other than or lesser brake parts.


It was really an eye-opener how ignorant so-called parts pros were during my due diligence in finding the correct parts for this car, keeping in mind that it isn't just a "glorified Mustang" to quote several morons who looked up parts for this car.


The poor-minded "That'll do" mentality which drove those people to think that way is an eye-opening look into "conclusion bias" at it's very worst.


Believe it or not, O'Reilly's came through for me and special ordered the parts for me, but not without me setting an unshakeable boundary as to not settling for "That'll do" parts.

people love thatll do parts. theyre cheap as peanuts and have life time warranties. my last encounter with thatll do parts was about 15yr ago. orielly water pump. no name chinese bearing was gone at 50k. learned my lesson