How is the Alpine audio system so bad? (Waited 18 months to say something)

[TrueMetalGeek]

So some history and why my opinions and needs...
I've been driving since the 1980's. So I have gone through the generation of vehicles with older systems where the head unit and speakers were NOT interconnected to any other vehicle control aside from accessory power and where you were 100% free to shoehorn in ANY aftermarket system you pleased with little regard...
Then the mid 2000's came when they started to really integrate the head units with the body control module as well as get away form the din and double din head unit standards...
Although, I did swap out that miserable first gen "U-Connect" non touchscreen double din in our 2013 Grand Caravan. I had an Android Auto deck with built in 4 channel + sub crossover that made that system rock...
Fast forward to my 2015 Ford F-150 Platinum with it's "Sony premium" system. My first vehicle with a non removable din or double din based head. Subwoofer was a joke. So I replaced that with my own sub and amplifier. Problem solved. Sounded great.
Then I had a Grand Cherokee with that 11 speaker Harmon Kardon. Which, damn. That was the first vehicle I never ever tore out any components or added anything. It ALMOST had enough of the low bass to not even create the need to add one and of course the lack of room for placement sealed the reason not to. I was totally content. Great sounding system!!!

Then the 2025 Ram Rebel with it's Alpine system.

I do like the truck overall. But immediately, that audio system sucked. Especially coming form the most beautiful stock surround system I ever had in the Jeep GC (the best aspect of that vehicle besides the Hemi and paddle shifters).
Of course the first thing to go was the sad excuse for a subwoofer. That plastic box and triple coil sub was very quickly removed and replaced with the same sub amp I've used for 20 years now (literally from daily driver to new daily driver, except the Jeep GC).
I did have to add a pre-amp with cross over to fine tune the signals from the factory signals to get the sub to sound right. But that part works great now.
But then I kept wondering why the highs were so none existent. Like as if a bandpass filter was scooping out everything above 10k.
Well. I finally popped out those speakers in the front dash and tested them. No tweeters and no reproduction of any of the higher treble frequencies. It was as if Ram left out the highs in this system!
So, in went in a set of Infinite Reference 2 way component speakers.
Yes! Man that fixed the highs that was completely missing form this system.
But then I replaced the same exact 3" speakers in the rear in the headliner.
Now, while the system is night and day BETTER than it was. I just keep noticing that I don't seem to be hearing the instruments and voicing from the rear as I expect from a somewhat high end system with "surround sound" etc etc.
I figure it is because those rear component speakers are still facing down and don't have the deflection to my ears like the ones up front do with the windshield.
But now this week, I use the fader to the back. Notice in deed those very same speakers don't seem to be delivering anything remotely like they do up front. So I hop in my back seat and am like "WTF is this?"
It seems that the system is delivering a very limited band of frequencies to those channels.
Like no deeper mids. And not much for highs but some. But like a very narrow bandwidth somewhere above the major vocal range and the highs. Sounds like to be honest. What is going on here???

So now if I were to make any other changes I would be curious if the bandpass of frequencies is done via the factory amp under my driver seat, to where I could just finally replace that thing entirely and set up my own with another active crossover, or if this effect is from the line side feeding the amp
My gut makes me think it's in the amp since the amp has the noise cancelling inputs and all the dedicated channel outputs for the door speaker vs "mids" speakers vs the subwoofer channels etc.

Anyone have a source for some reliable wiring schematics? (I am an electronics guy, so I DYI for all of my needs). I think I found a set a while back after downloaded a ton of incorrect ones. But then I never got into the factory amp wiring and had just used the powered sub lines to feed into an active crossover to solve my sub problem when I got the truck over a year ago now.
I had a mid 1990's Mustang with the "MACH 460" audio system that I thought was goofy back then (6x8 door speakers for mono "woofers" and the same type of treble robbing mids and three amps, but was easily overcome). Seems that this is almost the same setup except it is part of an even more module based factory integrated system.

My system does rock pretty good now with what I have done. It is almost good enough. But I just feel I should have a little more of that voice and highs coming from the rear for a bit more spatial sound effects.

 

[TrueMetalGeek]

Oh yeah, I also modified the rear seat backs so I could lift up on the seat and then hinge down the seat backs to access my amps and storage. Something I had to do to a Dodge truck way back in 2003 for the same reason. Weird that Dodge requires the seat to be unbolted before you modify it. My 2015 Ford let me flip the seats down with factory latch releases.

 

[MD Sledhead]

I went through the same aggravation as you (24 Limited). Wife's 16 Jeep GC sounds great, but my 2014 Laramie with Alpine sounded even better.
I replaced dash speakers (all 3) two Infinity Reference in corners and a kicker in the middle (probably didn't do much). It was better. So I replaced door speakers with Infinity Reference as well (2-way in Front and 3-way in Rear). The change in the front didn't do much (all bass). However the rear door speakers will now overwhelm the front speakers. It also sounds a bit "tinny" at times - too much high freq - and the mid is not strong enough for me. Thinking I should have put 2-way in the rear doors.
On the doors - I had to reverse polarity on the speakers because of the Active Noise Cancellation (ANC).
I did nothing with headliner or sub.

At times it sounds good... other times it sounds bad. I'm wondering if:
1. The ANC is messing with the midrange sounds
2. I should swap the front and rear doors - having 2-way in the rear doors and 3-ways in the front (negating the tweeters because they wouldn't be used)

 

[RamDiver]

At times it sounds good... other times it sounds bad. I'm wondering if:
1. The ANC is messing with the midrange sounds
2. I should swap the front and rear doors - having 2-way in the rear doors and 3-ways in the front (negating the tweeters because they wouldn't be used)

I have the Alpine 9-channel radio in my '21 Warlock.

As you say, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not.
I use Sirius XM most of the time and notice a significant amount of the content suffers from too much compression. Sometimes it's fantastic, and other times, it's complete garbage.

I grew up listening to LPs, and most CDs sound like crap to me.
The term we used at work was GIGO, which translates to garbage in, garbage out.

So, if your system sounds great sometimes, maybe the problem is more content-related than most are willing to admit.

I have an open mind and really appreciate hearing from someone like @CanuckRam1313 who has upgraded his last 2 Ram trucks. I wish my budget could handle the expense, but I'm still waiting for that lottery win.

.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

I have learned through experience, especially with the MOPAR CanBus proprietary systems we have to endure, that audio upgrades aren't so "cut & dry"!

As @RamDiver mentioned, I have indeed done some significant audio upgrades with my previous 19' Express (standard base model 6-speaker factory system) and now with my 23' Warlock with the factory 9-speaker Alpine system.

The one item that impacts sound detail/clarity/punch/volume is the method by which the sound (music) is delivered.
If one is listening via, say YouTube, the music can be really compressed and the output can be poor. Just depends on how it was digitally recorded/processed.

Original CD's bought from a store have incredible output (music recreation) because it's controlled at the highest levels by the producers and so to by the CD companies that produce them.

Signals from sources like Sirius, etc., can be hit or miss, but usually sound pretty good overall, but compression is still present.

Spotify is a great source, but if you're using the free app one needs to go into the settings and set the quality to the highest levels. But this still doesn't get you the best dynamic sound sourcing available. For that one needs to have a premium Spotify subscription. However, with that said, one will net the most incredible and highest output possible for music delivery with the Spotify premium subscription.

Now we go to the "system/speakers" themselves!
I also have no ANC set up as it does just mess with everything!!!!!!!!!!

My doors and throughout the interior cab are heavily insulated with premium sound deadener matting material. This is imperative, not only to eliminate rattling heard outside the vehicle when the volume and bass are up. But more so it enhances the sound quality inside the cabin to high levels.

My current system has a total of 11-speakers and 2100W out aftermarket output, plus whatever the stock/factory Alpine amp puts out.

The head unit is the brains and processor of the operation. So, when one is looking for that high end "audiophile" type sound, one needs to have a head unit that has all the goodies so the system sound can be tuned / filtered / timed-phased/ crossover settings / etc., to audio perfection. I went with the Kenwood DMX957XR as that was the highest level head unit available at the time that was an in-dash model (I wasn't wanting the large floating head unit).

I have a pair of Kenwood amps under my front seats that are mounted on raised platforms, pls a db 5-farad digital capacitor mounted on a raised platform under my passenger seat as well.

I also had several large gauge pure copper grounds added throughout my truck as this alone is of huge benefit to how the electrical system functions, especially if you're upgrading the audio system. Even if one only had a stock audio system, this upgrade alone will improve many things to do with ones electrical system!

I then added an Odyssey H8 AGM battery, too because this helps the upgraded audio system and ones electrical system overall.

As for speakers, in my now 23' my installer left the factory/stock Alpine two roof speakers and the dash center speaker and kept them on the factory/stock Alpine amp. They tuned and timed/phased them so they only act as low level surround sound filler speakers. I have no clue how they achieved this, but they did! Having these three speakers fill in on a low level surround sound capacity adds a whole new level of sound dynamics to the audio experience to say the least.

I say this because all of the "aftermarket upgraded audio components" were in my 19' and then removed and put into my now 23', and that truck only had the 6-speaker system in it. So the sound dynamic difference was immediately noticed when I went into my 23' with the use of the three additional Alpine speakers that were set up properly to compliment the newly installed aftermarket audio system.

As for the rest of my system, I have a pair of Audiomobile EVO 2410 subs (each in their own box so if I need some under seat space I can remove one and still have the other for some thump) that are in custom made and tuned sealed boxes that are stuffed with poly-fil under each back seat.

I have the new line of Kicker speakers in the front doors and dash:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20651KSS26/Kicker-KSS269.html

And the new line of Kicker speakers in the rear doors:

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20651KSC93/Kicker-51KSC69304.html

Everything was then set up and tuned to audio perfection, and what I have now is a system that can competently play everything from country to rock/metal, to pop/easy listening/folk, to hip-hop/rap, classical, and the likes of Andrea Bocelli/Pavarotti/Lindsey Stirling, etc., with absolute detail/clarity/punch, and I use Spotify with a premium subscription as well.

All this said though, if one just wants to retain the stock head unit but achieve better sound. I'd recommend that one install the Kicker speakers, use sound mat material in the doors, and add the upgraded additional grounds.

 

[MD Sledhead]

@CanuckRam1313 I read a lot of your posts before changing speakers. I don't know why, but Crutchfield sent me towards the Infinity Reference REF697F and REF697MF for my doors, and REF307F for the dash. What's odd with the sound (regardless of source) is that the highs are too brassy and the rear door speakers sound level seems to overpower as the volume goes higher.
The rear speakers have "button" on the tweeter for +3db (I have that off).

I actually have my equalizer set (left to right, bass to treble) at +4, +2, 0.
Every other device I've had with an equalizer, I typically made a "V" shape. So this seems odd to me.

Do you think this is a function of the factory amp, or is it more a function of the speakers themselves? I'm not opposed to doing different speakers. I'm very proficient in door panel removal LOL.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

@CanuckRam1313 I read a lot of your posts before changing speakers. I don't know why, but Crutchfield sent me towards the Infinity Reference REF697F and REF697MF for my doors, and REF307F for the dash. What's odd with the sound (regardless of source) is that the highs are too brassy and the rear door speakers sound level seems to overpower as the volume goes higher.
The rear speakers have "button" on the tweeter for +3db (I have that off).

I actually have my equalizer set (left to right, bass to treble) at +4, +2, 0.
Every other device I've had with an equalizer, I typically made a "V" shape. So this seems odd to me.

Do you think this is a function of the factory amp, or is it more a function of the speakers themselves? I'm not opposed to doing different speakers. I'm very proficient in door panel removal LOL.

If you're using the factory UConnect head unit, then that's part of the issue as that head unit can only do so much and push out minimal power to those upgraded speakers.

When you can, I'd recommend a head unit upgrade and an amp (doesn't have to be huge, but putting real power to upgraded speakers enables them to really meet their sound quality and output capabilities) and then tune it accordingly, and you'll really get great sound.

I initially had the Focal fronts and rears but the lower front right door speaker blew out a few months back. Not bad though after 4 years of heavy useage.

I then upgraded to these new Kicker's and what a HUGE improvement they are vs the Focal's is terms of better detail and clarity up front and huge mid-bass detail in the fronts and rears.

The Focal's were hugely high-range up front as the dash speakers were 1" dome tweeters.
The Kicker's have 2.75" dash speakers and provide a richer and fuller sound overall.

 

[MD Sledhead]

Not sure I understand what you mean about Focal speakers... Are you referring to your previous setup or my current? (My front corners are Infinity Reference... my front middle is a Kicker KSC270.)
It sounds like your Kenwood head unit and amp are driving the door speakers (bypassing the factory ANC controlling those).

My problem is that I don't really understand the pros/cons of adding a better head unit (or the amount of work required)... what does that do to ANC, Phone conversations, wiring in the truck etc.

I'm willing to do some work, but I really don't have the ability to take my truck to a audio place and have it tuned. I live in rural Appalachia lol.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Not sure I understand what you mean about Focal speakers... Are you referring to your previous setup or my current? (My front corners are Infinity Reference... my front middle is a Kicker KSC270.)
It sounds like your Kenwood head unit and amp are driving the door speakers (bypassing the factory ANC controlling those).

My problem is that I don't really understand the pros/cons of adding a better head unit (or the amount of work required)... what does that do to ANC, Phone conversations, wiring in the truck etc.

I'm willing to do some work, but I really don't have the ability to take my truck to a audio place and have it tuned. I live in rural Appalachia lol.

When I initially upgraded my 19' audio system I went with Focal, which is the brand name of the speaker.
After 4 years of them in use, one blew so I upgraded to the Kicker speakers front and rear.

Yes, my head unit and two Kenwood amps are for the eight upgraded speakers.
and eliminate the ANC entirely.

The stock Alpine amp is running the three stock Alpine speakers (center dash and the two roof mounted ones).

As for adding a new aftermarket head unit, there are no cons, only benefits.
You can remove the stock head unit and keep it aside, then if you sell/trade your truck down the road you can reinstall all the stock stuff (like I did when I bought my new 23').

As for sourcing the new head unit and the required items to interface it with your truck, I recommend go with Crutchfield as well. They are a one stop shop and have everything you need to do it yourself.
Do call them up and have them package up all the items you'll need so it's right from the start.

Not having the stock ANC is a good thing in my opinion. When you insulate the doors with some sound deadening material you'll hear the improvements

As for phone; zero issues there whatsoever! A good head unit will come with new microphone and the sound still comes through your truck speakers. Again, Crutchfield will set you up properly and also provide you with all the technical information you need, just ask them for all the tech specs you'll need to do the installations yourself.

If you go with a Kenwood head unit that has all the abilities to tune, I'm happy to screenshot every parameter that my installer programmed into mine (DMX957XR) so you can copy that into your set up.

Regardless of any audio upgrades, do consider installing several upgraded grounds throughout your truck. This will not only improve the audio upgrades, it will appreciably enhance the existing electrical system in your truck, too!

 

[runamuck]

that system in my '19 Laramie sounded pretty good to me. I did disconnect the ANC harness but that was to get rid of a droning sound that appeared at a certain speed when driving. I have a very good sound system at home to listen to so not gonna spend much effort on the truck system altho the "19 Laramie 1500 sounded better than to me than the one in the '22 Larmie 2500 I have now but it is not too bad, besides for some reason my wife expects me to chat with her while we are traveling instead of listening to my tunes.

 

[BossHogg]

How each of us hears audio is very subjective. I find the factory Alpine system is excellent. But then I'm not one trying to bass-thump out the windows of adjoining vehicles at a traffic light.

 

[MD Sledhead]

When I initially upgraded my 19' audio system I went with Focal, which is the brand name of the speaker.
After 4 years of them in use, one blew so I upgraded to the Kicker speakers front and rear.

Yes, my head unit and two Kenwood amps are for the eight upgraded speakers.
and eliminate the ANC entirely.

The stock Alpine amp is running the three stock Alpine speakers (center dash and the two roof mounted ones).

As for adding a new aftermarket head unit, there are no cons, only benefits.
You can remove the stock head unit and keep it aside, then if you sell/trade your truck down the road you can reinstall all the stock stuff (like I did when I bought my new 23').

As for sourcing the new head unit and the required items to interface it with your truck, I recommend go with Crutchfield as well. They are a one stop shop and have everything you need to do it yourself.
Do call them up and have them package up all the items you'll need so it's right from the start.

Not having the stock ANC is a good thing in my opinion. When you insulate the doors with some sound deadening material you'll hear the improvements

As for phone; zero issues there whatsoever! A good head unit will come with new microphone and the sound still comes through your truck speakers. Again, Crutchfield will set you up properly and also provide you with all the technical information you need, just ask them for all the tech specs you'll need to do the installations yourself.

If you go with a Kenwood head unit that has all the abilities to tune, I'm happy to screenshot every parameter that my installer programmed into mine (DMX957XR) so you can copy that into your set up.

Regardless of any audio upgrades, do consider installing several upgraded grounds throughout your truck. This will not only improve the audio upgrades, it will appreciably enhance the existing electrical system in your truck, too!

I'm not sure how a new head unit like DMX957XR would work for me. I currently have the 12" display in my Limited trim...
I'm guessing the OP (Rebel trim) has the 12" or maybe larger.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

I'm not sure how a new head unit like DMX957XR would work for me. I currently have the 12" display in my Limited trim...
I'm guessing the OP (Rebel trim) has the 12" or maybe larger.

It can be installed, although I'd go with the new iteration DMX958XR.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113DMX958X/Kenwood-Excelon-Reference-DMX958XR.html

I believe that everything can be sourced through Crutchfield.

** Info from google ai **
The Kenwood DMX958XR can be installed in a 2024 Ram 1500 (5th Gen) with a factory 12-inch screen, but it requires a specialized dash kit and the iDataLink Maestro RR/RR2 to retain climate controls, steering wheel functions, and safety features.

 

[MD Sledhead]

It can be installed, although I'd go with the new iteration DMX958XR.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113DMX958X/Kenwood-Excelon-Reference-DMX958XR.html

I believe that everything can be sourced through Crutchfield.

** Info from google ai **
The Kenwood DMX958XR can be installed in a 2024 Ram 1500 (5th Gen) with a factory 12-inch screen, but it requires a specialized dash kit and the iDataLink Maestro RR/RR2 to retain climate controls, steering wheel functions, and safety features.

Google AI is often mistaken... This is from Crutchefield.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Google AI is often mistaken... This is from Crutchefield.
View attachment 584082

Fair enough.
Perhaps call them?
I did call my installer and he said it can be done with the right dash kit and connection accessories

 

[TrueMetalGeek]

I went through the same aggravation as you (24 Limited). Wife's 16 Jeep GC sounds great, but my 2014 Laramie with Alpine sounded even better.
I replaced dash speakers (all 3) two Infinity Reference in corners and a kicker in the middle (probably didn't do much). It was better. So I replaced door speakers with Infinity Reference as well (2-way in Front and 3-way in Rear). The change in the front didn't do much (all bass). However the rear door speakers will now overwhelm the front speakers. It also sounds a bit "tinny" at times - too much high freq - and the mid is not strong enough for me. Thinking I should have put 2-way in the rear doors.
On the doors - I had to reverse polarity on the speakers because of the Active Noise Cancellation (ANC).
I did nothing with headliner or sub.

At times it sounds good... other times it sounds bad. I'm wondering if:
1. The ANC is messing with the midrange sounds
2. I should swap the front and rear doors - having 2-way in the rear doors and 3-ways in the front (negating the tweeters because they wouldn't be used)

After posting this I realized that the rear headliner speakers, which were the same 3" as the front dash, only have a narrow band thru them. Not full mids and highs. So that explains why the infinity speakers I replaced them with can't be heard from the front as a surround sound!
I noticed that while the front door speakers are lows only, the rear door speakers are where the full range mids and highs mainly come from.
So I may try finding a wiring diagram and take the rear headliner speakers and pair them up with the outputs for the rear doors.
That may be all that it takes.
My system sounds pretty dang good with the front infinity speakers and my aftermarket subwoofer and sub amp.
I am just missing that surround sound like I had in the Jeep QC.
If I can just get some of that back by rewiring those rear headliner speakers that would be great.
Although they fire down and have no glass to reflect off of like the front. So I won't know if they will work well until I try.
If they do not work well, I may relocate those to the corners into some enclosure or something.

 

[TrueMetalGeek]

It can be installed, although I'd go with the new iteration DMX958XR.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_113DMX958X/Kenwood-Excelon-Reference-DMX958XR.html

I believe that everything can be sourced through Crutchfield.

** Info from google ai **
The Kenwood DMX958XR can be installed in a 2024 Ram 1500 (5th Gen) with a factory 12-inch screen, but it requires a specialized dash kit and the iDataLink Maestro RR/RR2 to retain climate controls, steering wheel functions, and safety features.

How does a 2023 Ram have a double din head unit?
I haven't had a vehicle with a removable head unit since our 2013 Grand Caravan family vehicle that had the NON early touch screen and a Kenwood head unit was awesome in there with my aftermarket amps and sub.

2015 F-150, 2020 Jeep GC and my 2025 Ram Rebel all had factory touch screen modules with the module hidden behind that. No way to install a double din head unit in those vehicles. But I didn't need to.
Whatever module I have behind that gigantic touch screen that feeds my 9 speaker amp seems to be sending pretty good quality.
I was just thinking how great it sounded today with what I changed so far, minus the missing rear direction surround mids and highs.
Which is why I remembered to come check my post.

I use Youtube a lot but I do have premium and the audio quality set high. Much of the streams are pretty good now with that.
I can also plex stream my own library if I want and for when I want to test with something high quality like Pink Floyd etc.