Interested in the 6.4, which years?

[SouthTexan]

But that's why I hate ford, they ALWAYS do shady ****. Just like their weight savings deal, they go around preaching its 700lbs lighter but that's only on ONE cab configuration, and its not even the most popular one (clearly the crew cab short bed is the most popular truck among any make in todays world). So why not advertise the real truth, 400lbs lighter?

That not exactly 100%. If you go through the the 2015 specs, most of the trucks are between 500 to 700 lbs from from the comparable 2014 model.

2015 F150 Technical Specs

2014 F150 Technical Specs

For example, a 2015 crew cab F150 5.0L 4x4 long bed is 4,930 lbs while the 2014 equivalent was 5,716 lbs which is a 786 lbs difference.

Same with the way they ALWAYS present the whole best selling truck in America deal. They almost always fail to beat the combination of sierra and Silverado sale (same truck) but they try to twist it like F150 CRUSHES the competition. You can look up the sales on 2013 and 2014 models online, and see they didn't out sell GM trucks either year in the half ton market. More ford scamming...

The Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra are two different truck lines per GM which is why they are counted separately.

 

[SilverSurfer15]

yea I don't know how that works for the fleet sales... I was looking at the numbers on pickuptrucks.com

the F series truck is usually the number one selling truck, because the F250 steam rolls the other 3/4 ton every year. But specifically in the half ton market, GM usually wins against the F150. But its always fairly close. With Ram dragging behind in both.

 

[SouthTexan]

Is it possible for you to provide a link or direct me to the right place. id like to read about this.

thanks.

Sure, here you go.

RV.net: Ram 2500 with 6.4 Hemi

It's the 2nd post on that page made by Baxter214. He even shows his truck and RV further in the thread.

 

[U&A]

Sure, here you go.

RV.net: Ram 2500 with 6.4 Hemi

It's the 2nd post on that page made by Baxter214. He even shows his truck and RV further in the thread.

thank you

 

[SilverSurfer15]

so after reading that... I have to wonder why you buy a gas truck in the first place for that scenario? When I was there, we had to keep the 5.7 Hemi grand Cherokee on the floor to maintain 55-60 and she was screaming. STOP TRYING TO TOW UP THE WORST CLIMB IN THE COUNTRY WITH GAS MOTORS AND EXPECTING IT TO BE ANYTHING BUT TERRIBLE.

Side note: he said 35mph, that's about as good as it gets so seems like everything was fine to me. doing what it was designed to do in that scenario. Not sure what he expected. Fun fact, you don't see a DAMN SOUL on that climb towing over 45 mph, so its not like any magic diesel is going to blow right up the hill at 70.

 

[U&A]

I would have to disagree there. If someone is constantly towing in high altitudes then yes they should make their purchasing decision based on how well each truck does up steep grades in high elevation especially if the truck has some sort of programming altering how it tows in certain high altitude situations.

Just as one of the they guys at RV.net who had to turn back around towing his 9k lb RV up the Ike in his 2500 because the gear hold nanny kicked in. He even stated in his post that he wish he would have seen the Ike video before he bought his truck. I wouldn't troll that guy if he made his next truck purchase based on how well a certain truck does towing up a mountain especially if that is where he will be towing. After all, don't most HD truck owners make their truck buying decision based on how well said truck handles and performs when towing the loads they usually tow?

Now, does that mean I agree with the person you are speaking of in the rest of your statement? No, and I happen to agree with you there.

After readingthe link you provided to me I agree.

I also think the the MAIN reason for the failure of the 6.4 in the link you provided was the altitude. i dont even like the word failure though. it did what it could in the extremely high altitude.

 

[drittal]

It did what it could in the extremely high altitude.

It performed exactly how it was programmed to.

They guy from RV.net would have made the Ike in the exact fashion the boys at TFL Truck and PickupTrucks.Com did.

What prevented him was not knowing that there was the gear hold programming so he thought there was something wrong.

Other guys over on RV.net tow and won't let there gas V8 rev over 3500-4000 rpm for the same reasons Ram developed the gear hold programming.

It is what it is. Most of us won't ever experience it, yet everyone seems to have a strong opinion of it.


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[SouthTexan]

After readingthe link you provided to me I agree.

I also think the the MAIN reason for the failure of the 6.4 in the link you provided was the altitude. i dont even like the word failure though. it did what it could in the extremely high altitude.

Technically it didn't fail. As was already stated, Ram programmed the truck to go into limp mode in certain situations so the truck did work as designed. However even if the truck was working as designed, it still effects towing performance at high altitudes and I wouldn't troll anyone for taking that into consideration when making a truck purchase especially if they will be using their truck to tow in such conditions.

 

[U&A]

Technically it didn't fail. As was already stated, Ram programmed the truck to go into limp mode in certain situations so the truck did work as designed. However even if the truck was working as designed, it still effects towing performance at high altitudes and I wouldn't troll anyone for taking that into consideration when making a truck purchase especially if they will be using their truck to tow in such conditions.

as i said, fail is the wrong word. it did what it SHOULD is what i should have said. I didn't want to make you guy think my opinion was that it failed. i worded it worn and apologize for that. as was stated it did the job as it was supposed to and I agree with you guys

 

[U&A]

It performed exactly how it was programmed to.

They guy from RV.net would have made the Ike in the exact fashion the boys at TFL Truck and PickupTrucks.Com did.

What prevented him was not knowing that there was the gear hold programming so he thought there was something wrong.

Other guys over on RV.net tow and won't let there gas V8 rev over 3500-4000 rpm for the same reasons Ram developed the gear hold programming.

It is what it is. Most of us won't ever experience it, yet everyone seems to have a strong opinion of it.


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this was well said

this is what i was going for. sorry if i confused you guys on my opinion.

 

[SouthTexan]

as i said, fail is the wrong word. it did what it SHOULD is what i should have said. I didn't want to make you guy think my opinion was that it failed. i worded it worn and apologize for that. as was stated it did the job as it was supposed to and I agree with you guys

I didn't say that there anything was wrong with what you said nor was I challenging what you stated. I was just replying with my thoughts in addition to what you stated. I think you are reading my words in a completely different way I am meaning them.

 

[U&A]

I didn't say that there anything was wrong with what you said nor was I challenging what you stated. I was just replying with my thoughts in addition to what you stated. I think you are reading my words in a completely different way I am meaning them.

no problem. I just wanted to make sure "I" wasn't misunderstood. we are all good. after i read my post i can see how it could easily be read wrong.

 

[Danno]

If someone is naïve enough to base their purchasing decision on a the outcome of 'who towed fastest up the steepest mountain', then they deserve to be trolled. Here's my take on it. Fords HD's have ****** interiors, Ram trans ratios and TM leave a lot to be desired, GM designed there trucks to look like a Transformer toy. Whomever designed the front end of the Titan XD should be demoted. But I don't go derailing every thread spewing a bunch of negative BS based upon my own interpretation of the facts.

And when the same user consistently beats the same dead horse when it isn't even relevant there is another agenda somewhere. Especially obvious when they keep referring members to look competing brands instead. Whatever the reason it's definitely time to clean up shop and take out the trash.

Naive, relevant? So what your saying is don't do research or read the orginal post, isn't the orginal question about towing with the 6.4? The towing part of the orginal question is posted below, notice the 10k tractor and trailer??

I need a truck to tow a 10k tractor and trailer to the deer lease 4x a year. Otherwise it will be a daily driver, 4 miles per day average. Ram checks all the box's of capacity, ride quality, fun to drive, and looks; but I'm not sure yet about reliability.

Yes and no. Yes, Davis Dam is used in the J2807, but no in the fact that they were hauling a load and not towing one up the Davis Dam. The J2807 standard only has to do with towing, not hauling.

Although there is one very important thing to note about that Pickuptrucks.com challenge. Ask yourself this. If the Ram in that challenge had a taller rear axle ratio than the other two and it was behind the winner of each performance test by a hair, would you cry foul or say that it wasn't truly apples to apples? Be honest.

Well, I know people get mad when I mention this, but to be truly unbiased you would have to note that the GM and Ram both had the shortest 4.10 rear axle ratios available in those trucks while the Ford had the tallest 3.73 gear ratio available. Would the challenge have been different if the Ford would have had it's shortest 4.30 gear ratio available? Maybe.... maybe not, but it is worth mentioning especially when it only trailed the Ram by a hair in every performance test and that having a shorter gear ratio increases a vehicles loaded and unloaded performance. After all, wouldn't you think the same if the roles were reversed with a taller geared Ram trailed a shorter geared Ford by a slight margin?

As far as the Ike test, it is what it is. If one goes around trashing challenges just because their favorite didn't do well in it then it makes them look like a sore loser. No engine is perfect. Not the 6.4L, not the 6.7L Cummins, not the 5.7L, and not even the 3.5L Ecoboost engines I love so much. They will all win some and loose some so you have to take the good with the bad.

Well said.

 

[drittal]

... isn't the orginal question about towing with the 6.4? The towing part of the orginal question is posted below, notice the 10k tractor and trailer??

The IKE test is only relevant to him if he is towing it over the IKE or similar. Plenty of us towing 10k and more pretty regularly.

Some (one?) seem to think the gear hold will kick in when towing any incline approaching 6 or 7%. Speaking with experience, I can say that isn't the case.

 

[SouthTexan]

Some (one?) seem to think the gear hold will kick in when towing any incline approaching 6 or 7%. Speaking with experience, I can say that isn't the case.

I have been in these threads that talked about the limp mode and I have never seen anyone say that it will happen on any incline approaching 6% or 7%. Knowing what I know about engines, I can tell you that it isn't a "high altitude only" thing or dependent upon a certain grade. There is no sensor on these trucks that senses altitude telling the truck to kick in limp mode. That is not how sensors on the engines or ECM mapping works.

How it does work is that the ECM is programmed to throw the truck into limp mode if certain criteria like engine oil temp or transmission oil temp are within certain ranges. This could happen at any altitude and any grade. It could happen at 600 ft above elevation pulling a load through a long hilly area that constantly goes up and down making the engine and trans work hard -IF- the temps get to the certain range that the ECM is programmed to put the truck in limp mode. It is not dependent on altitude or grade and is only dependent on how hot the temps get.

I myself have always wondered what causes the truck to go into limp. I know it is either the trans or engine getting hot, but which one is triggering it is still up in the air. My guess would be the engine for a few reasons. One being is that people have been pulling heavy loads with the 66RFE in the 5.7L for a long time without this limp mode issue ever being mentioned which leads me to believe it is not the transmission temps triggering it.

The second reason would be the size of the 6.4L itself. After doing some research I found out that the 6.4L essentially uses the same block as the 5.7L but with a 4.4 mm larger bore and a 3.71 mm longer stroke. The coolant jackets on the block were designed to cool a 5.7L and cutting more bore out into the same block along with an increased stroke might be too much for those coolant jackets to properly cool the engine in certain situations with a constant heavy load. The cooling may be fine for the car application that the 6.4L was designed for and for most truck duty cycles, but not for very rare truck duty cycles with constant heavy load. This may also be why Ram changed the fuel to mid grade in 2015 seing that the engine running hotter under certain heavy loads may cause predetonation. This is just my guess though based on what I have read.

Either way, it seems that about 99% of 6.4L owners will ever even go into this limp mode unless they are really pushing the engine for a long period of time which most never will be in the right situation to do so.

 

[theviking]

SouthTexan, how many times have I linked this and you never read it Ram reengineered the block and heads for the HD motor, including the coolant jackets in both. Now maybe your right and it's still heating up, but it's not the same block the cars use(except the Hellcat). Plus to my knowledge most focus in modern day has been more around monitoring cylinder head temps. Maybe Ram/FCA doesn't. Would also be very curious to see how oil temps figure into the equations.

IMO, the motor is very sensitive to octane as you suggested. I could even feel a difference in how the truck ran between 87 and 89 in come cases. When towing I always bumped up the octane regardless.

 

[drittal]

The Ram 6.4 block was used for the Hellcat, not the SRT block.

“We already had a 6.4-liter block with a high duty cycle developed for trucks,” Black tells EngineLabs. “We knew the strength of that block had been upgraded for that program. It made sense to leverage hardware already available.”

While the Hellcat starts with a block that is cast and machined on the same line as a Ram truck engine, the Dodge block, of course, is painted bright Hemi Orange.

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[drittal]

Would also be very curious to see how oil temps figure into the equations.

This is where TFL and other IKE tests drop the ball IMO. I'd like to have seen what the temps were on each truck as they held the pedal to the metal up IKE.

I know for a fact when the gear hold program kicked in for me all temps dropped 15-20 degrees. None were above 2/3 on gauge.

When towing I always bumped up the octane regardless.

When towing I only fill with premium.


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[theviking]

Here's the article you're quoting.
http://www.enginelabs.com/news/hellcat-hemi-chief-engineer-provides-engine-details/

From my own research taking to one of the popular Hemi engine builders they also sourced the heads from the HD 6.4 since they are still Apache style but manufactured from 356 aluminum.

 

[drittal]

Any motor worked hard will see pretty high EOT. Cummins 6.7 is has max EOT of 280.

Here is a link to a thread asking about cummins EOT, one replied with a pic towing into a 40 mph headwind. Hit 262...


...for 2 hours.

engine oil temp - DODGE RAM FORUM - Dodge Truck Forums