Is Idling Really an Issue for Gas Engines?

[phoenixelijah]

Because of the use-case for my truck I spend a lot of time in it, idling. I've seen mention that it's hard on the truck but have always done it as I need climate control and don't want to run down my batteries. Now all that said my 2020 Ram Rebel is the newest car I've ever owned and I don't know what's changed (if anything)

Does anybody else idle a lot? Like about 50% of the time it's being used

Open to opinions too - probably not a black and white question and I expect it's mostly anecdotal.

 

[Rlaf75]

Idling for extended periods of time isn't really good for any vehicle. The hemi engines are notorious for eating cams and lifters due to extended idle times. It's called the "hemi tick". At full engine operating temp the oil is at its thinnest and at idle the oil pressure is at it's lowest.

 

[crazykid1994]

There’s a small workaround. You can adjust your idle rpm up to increase oil pressure. Most guys are adjust it from the factory 600 which is supposed to keep your fuel usage at idle to a minimum up to between 650-750. Mine is adjusted to 650 and next tuning revision may push it to 700. My hot idle oil pressure is 38-40psi at 650 rpm. At 600 rpm my hot oil pressure would drop to 32-35 psi.

 

[Highway]

There’s a small workaround. You can adjust your idle rpm up to increase oil pressure. Most guys are adjust it from the factory 600 which is supposed to keep your fuel usage at idle to a minimum up to between 650-750. Mine is adjusted to 650 and next tuning revision may push it to 700. My hot idle oil pressure is 38-40psi at 650 rpm. At 600 rpm my hot oil pressure would drop to 32-35 psi.

What is the procedure to adjust/raise the idle rpm ?

 

[mikeru]

I'm not looking to get into an argument with @Rlaf75, or anyone else, and I don't disagree with him about idling in general. I just haven't seen any real proof that idling is what causes the cam/lifter issue on Hemi engines. There are also theories that MDS is the cause, or the design of how the cam gets insufficient lubrication, especially at lower rpm's. But like the idling theory, I haven't seen any real proof that any of those have been definitively shown to be the cause.

 

[Phillyrube]

Police cars and taxis. Would I buy a used one? No. But then, I have seen police cars with 200k and no real issues. Part of my old agency had assigned cars, and those would be nicer than the pool issued cars, driven by multiple drivers. YMMV....
Heheheh.

 

[Kootbiker]

With the price of gas these days I don’t see why anyone would leave their vehicle idling.

 

[Rlaf75]

I'm not looking to get into an argument with @Rlaf75, or anyone else, and I don't disagree with him about idling in general. I just haven't seen any real proof that idling is what causes the cam/lifter issue on Hemi engines. There are also theories that MDS is the cause, or the design of how the cam gets insufficient lubrication, especially at lower rpm's. But like the idling theory, I haven't seen any real proof that any of those have been definitively shown to be the cause.

It could very well be a combination of both idle time (low oil pressure, thin oil) and the mds system. I'm honestly surprised that with it being a common problem, we don't have any definitive answers as to the cause.

 

[mikeru]

It could very well be a combination of both idle time (low oil pressure, thin oil) and the mds system. I'm honestly surprised that with it being a common problem, we don't have any definitive answers as to the cause.

It absolutely could be caused by that combination. Or it could be caused by something else. You aren't doing the engine any favors by idling excessively. But the point I was trying to make is that any evidence that idling causes cam/lifter failures on the Hemi are anecdotal. It's fun to speculate though

 

[crazykid1994]

Need to tune it to adjust the idle

 

[CheechDogg.0n37s]

It absolutely could be caused by that combination. Or it could be caused by something else. You aren't doing the engine any favors by idling excessively. But the point I was trying to make is that any evidence that idling causes cam/lifter failures on the Hemi are anecdotal. It's fun to speculate though

I know Ram owners who don't idle and have had cam/lifter issues ... it's just a Hemi thing lol ...

 

[phoenixelijah]

I'm not looking to get into an argument with @Rlaf75, or anyone else, and I don't disagree with him about idling in general. I just haven't seen any real proof that idling is what causes the cam/lifter issue on Hemi engines. There are also theories that MDS is the cause, or the design of how the cam gets insufficient lubrication, especially at lower rpm's. But like the idling theory, I haven't seen any real proof that any of those have been definitively shown to be the cause.

pretty sure this is what I had seen that got me wondering

 

[phoenixelijah]

With the price of gas these days I don’t see why anyone would leave their vehicle idling.

I live in an environment that needs moderation of temperature and spend a significant amount of time waiting to travel, in the vehicle

 

[JHoward]

My 2017 HEMI has a lot of idle time and idles ~ 600 rpm, however at hot idle the oil psi is ~ 48-49 so maybe that's the reason it hasn't imploded? ... or maybe it doesn't have enough miles on it yet? ... or maybe I got a good one? ...I don't know.

I don't really put to much in stock with what the trucks "internal smartness" displays. I'm going to keep up the oci's and keep the tank full and hopefully it'll keep on hamm'rn on down the road.

 

[Elvira]

The problem is not just because of idling nor is it because of pressure...the culprit with low idle speeds is the volume of oil. The amount of oil at idle speeds is what is detrimental to avoiding the "hemi tick". Oil pressure can be high but if you are not getting enough of it, that is where the problems start. Sure, idling is not good for any vehicle, but if you supply enough oil, you will stand a better chance of less harm to the engine.

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[1979PowerWagon360]

This question brings lots of opinions. Pre-Eagle Head 5.7's had MDS and very rarely had the lifter/cam issue. So many agree it was not an MDS issue and something that began with the VVT engines beginning in '09. Yes the earlier 5.7's did occasionally drop a cylinder after extreme heat and then shutting them off but I digress.

How can anyone believe that extended idling does NOT contribute to the issue? Just the fact that it's more running time combined with more heat at idle alone contributes! Then take an engine that appears to be susceptible to the issue and add harmful idling hours.....

Anyone who works with a fleet of them that are subjected to high idle hours as I do knows the percentage that develop the problem is much higher than average. I cannot say whether it's a design flaw or what (oil slinger, oil passage design, etc.).

All this said I love the 5.7! I would say if you must idle for your work or whatever then you must, that simple. If you can avoid idle time then of course, avoid it. If yours does not have engine oil cooler as the Pursuits do, add one.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Because of the use-case for my truck I spend a lot of time in it, idling. I've seen mention that it's hard on the truck but have always done it as I need climate control and don't want to run down my batteries. Now all that said my 2020 Ram Rebel is the newest car I've ever owned and I don't know what's changed (if anything)

Does anybody else idle a lot? Like about 50% of the time it's being used

Open to opinions too - probably not a black and white question and I expect it's mostly anecdotal.

For which gas engines? Your question presumes the design and quality of all gas engines are equal. Newsflash: they aren't.

Hemi Gen III engines have a poorly designed lubrication system that does not adequately lubricate valve lifter rollers under all conditions. OEM will not release any helpful information, even though they know all about the issue.

Members of this forum have done many experiments that have provided data showing extra dry lubricant additive statistically meaningfully reduces the audible noise associated with this poor lubrication.

Other factors known to affect lubricant supply to this component is low oil flow - notably, FCA put in a higher flowing oil pump in the performance variant of the engine. This speaks volumes to us, that idling Hemi Gen III adds risk to lifter roller and cam failure. Except for wasting fuel, money, emissions.

Check out solar trickle chargers - they've come way down in price.

We aren't aware of other engine architectures failing at the same rate this engine architecture does (5-10% per FCA Technician Dealership).

Other than this? As long as the engine is fuel-injected and computer-controlled with adequate oil supply, there is no real detriment to idling anymore, unlike the old carbureted mechanical days.

 

[Wild one]

For which gas engines? Your question presumes the design and quality of all gas engines are equal. Newsflash: they aren't.

Hemi Gen III engines have a poorly designed lubrication system that does not adequately lubricate valve lifter rollers under all conditions. OEM will not release any helpful information, even though they know all about the issue.

Members of this forum have done many experiments that have provided data showing extra dry lubricant additive statistically meaningfully reduces the audible noise associated with this poor lubrication.

Other factors known to affect lubricant supply to this component is low oil flow - notably, FCA put in a higher flowing oil pump in the performance variant of the engine. This speaks volumes to us, that idling Hemi Gen III adds risk to lifter roller and cam failure. Except for wasting fuel, money, emissions.

Check out solar trickle chargers - they've come way down in price.

We aren't aware of other engine architectures failing at the same rate this engine architecture does (5-10% per FCA Technician Dealership).

Other than this? As long as the engine is fuel-injected and computer-controlled with adequate oil supply, there is no real detriment to idling anymore, unlike the old carbureted mechanical days.

I think the primary reason the 6.4's and 6.2's get a higher volume pump is more to do with the fact they use piston oil squirters to help keep piston crown temps down,offsetting detonation.With a bigger internal leak,you're going to need more oil pump volume to keep the bearings happy

 

[DILLIGAF]

How can anyone believe that extended idling does NOT contribute to the issue?

Because there's literally no evidence that it does. One of the issue is the low RPM set at factory and is an super easy fix with HP Tuner.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Non-issue. We have a fleet that contains a lot of hemis and a lot of idling. Transmissions usally die long before the motors do.