JBA Long Tube Headers!

[ramathorn14]

Oh wow I had no idea vararam was close to putting out their own longtubes.. Any idea yet on price range?

 

[Darkflow]

I think I remember reading that the VaraRam longtubes were going to be around the same price range as the Stainless Works & American Racing headers. JBA are priced great but by not having 1 3/4". They probably won't see the demand they could have. I still don't really understand why they make the 1 7/8" size 1st.

 

[Sybil]

Bigger is not always better...

True. Depends on what you is talking about.


Just messing with you!

 

[BlackRamHemi]

Has anyone actually done a Dyno test to confirm 1-7/8" primaries are too large for an NA 4G Hemi,
or is it a general consensus based on word of mouth?

interesting reading in the Sports Car forums (Vette's,Mustangs,Camaros)

For everyone wondering about 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 Headers... - SVTPerformance

Remember, despite the size of the primaries, they still have the same size 3" collector where you can even down size to a 2.5" mid pipe to get your Torque numbers up. If you're running Cat's that will also restrict the flow as well.


If you still think a 1-7/8" primary is too big and may cause a drop in low end Torque,
Simply put a higher stall Torque Converter in and you'll launch at mid range (3000rpm) ...problem solved.

If low end is your problem (1200-2300 rpm range)
(where most factory Torque Management also resides)
...simply remove it from the equation.

 

[Sybil]

Talked to a few viper guys and they said the amount of torque loss between a 1 3/4 and 1 7/8 will be minimal and probably won't even feel it behind the wheel.

 

[BrBlack]

Has anyone actually done a Dyno test to confirm 1-7/8" primaries are too large for an NA 4G Hemi,
or is it a general consensus based on word of mouth?

interesting reading in the Sports Car forums (Vette's,Mustangs,Camaros)

For everyone wondering about 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 Headers... - SVTPerformance

Remember, despite the size of the primaries, they still have the same size 3" collector where you can even down size to a 2.5" mid pipe to get your Torque numbers up. If you're running Cat's that will also restrict the flow as well.

If you still think a 1-7/8" primary is too big and may cause a drop in low end Torque,
Simply put a higher stall Torque Converter in and you'll launch at mid range (3000rpm) ...problem solved.

If low end is your problem (1200-2300 rpm range)
(where most factory Torque Management also resides)
...simply remove it from the equation.

Good read! Thanks for that.
something to keep in mind when I eventually decied to pull the pin on headers.

 

[BlackRamHemi]

I did a little more searching and found the Forum with the original post from that discussion
(that has all the Dyno Chart images)

1 3/4" vs. 1 7/8" long tube headers - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum





I'm not claiming it's the same for a Hemi in a 4G Ram,
but there is a chance .....it could be, until someone proves otherwise

 

[Sybil]

If I'm reading it right, not much difference?

 

[Darkflow]

Any #'s out there for say the Challenger & Charger R/T's? I think we could get a better idea that way then looking at other non-hemi engines.

 

[fasthemiram12]

If you taper down your exhaust after your headers to a 2.5 pipe you prolly won't notice any loss at all.

 

[fasthemiram12]

Oh.. And thanks Matt for hooking me up with the Titanium Coated Set!!

 

[Sybil]

Are these 1 7/8 ID or OD. Viper guys want to know and are jealous....

 

[Hemi450hp]

When the ARH headers first came out, there were a bunch of Ram guys that went straight to the 1 7/8" because they thought bigger was better. Many of them were not happy with the trucks performance because of the lack of low end power. You can overcome this with 4.10/4.56 gears and a 3000 stall converter, but that just isn't ideal for a daily driver that only sees the dragstrip once or twice a year.

Also, the dyno numbers above are from cars making over 500rwhp. That is the range at where I recommend the 1 7/8" headers. Doing that same test on a stock hemi truck that is only making about 300hp to the wheels would be a different story.

Those of you wanting to go with JBA longtubes to save some money, I would just be sure to run a 2.5" y-pipe behind the headers to help avoid any tq loss from the larger primary. I would still prefer a 1 3/4" myself for a basic Bolton truck, but the 2.5" y-pipe will help you recover some of that is lost from the large primary.

 

[ramathorn14]

Any opinion on the build quality of Vararam headers?

I'm so close to purchasing an entire stainless works header back system it's hair pulling.but if those vararam 1 3/4" long tubes are just as good for half the price then I think I would rather go that route and save some money

 

[Hemi450hp]

Vararam build quality is very nice. They also come pre polished, so they look great. I'm expecting these to be right around $1400 shipped with high flow cats and y-pipe.

 

[BlackRamHemi]

Matt got it right, sort of,

But there are several examples in that link,
only the first was a Supercharged 500HP+ Vette
Read a little further There's a fairly stock Gen5 372HP NA Camaro SS, with similar results

Originally Posted by Jason 98 TA
After 5 days of engine dyno testing different combinations & packages I'm proud to announce I finally have some extra time to provide you guys with some of the information we've learned!

The very first dyno testing we did compared header primaries & power output from 3000 to 6000rpm. The base engine was completely stock 01 engine with only a Fast intake installed. We dyno tested both the Pacesetter 1 3/4" coated long tubes & the TSP 1 7/8" long tube headers. The goal was to see how the larger primaries would effect power on a basically stock engine. To my suprise the 1 7/8" headers made a considerable amount more power than the 1 3/4" headers! Power output was virtually identical untiL 4800 rpm when the 1 7/8" headers began to outpower the smaller 1 3/4" primaries. The 1 7/8" headers made a peak hp of 414.x hp & 421lb ft while the 1 3/4" headers made 408hp & 419 lb ft of torque. While this isn't a huge difference, it definately shows that even on a basically stock car the larger headers are still a good investment! Power under the 4800rpm point was virtually identical! Infact the 3000 rpm numbers were 209hp 366 tq from the 1 3/4" headers & 209hp 359.9 tq!
Both dyno runs were backed up several times & the combos used very similar air fuels & locked in timing at 28 degrees. I thought this was a pretty cool comparision, because the common thought is the 1 7/8" headers is just overkill on anything smaller than stroker setups. This is apparently not the case....
Here's a few pics of the 1 7/8" headers installed on the engine dyno
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the area that seems to cause the most confusion but it is fairly straight forward. Header manufacturers usually offer two or three options when is comes to primary diameters for a specific vehicle. For example, for the new 5th generation Camaro SS most manufacturers are offering 1 3/4 inch, 1 7/8 inch, and 2 inch primaries. Here are the results of some recent back-to-back testing on an otherwise stock SS:

Stock: 372 RWHP 376 RWTQ

1 3/4 headers with high flow cats: 401 RWHP 404 RWTQ

1 7/8 headers with high flow cats: 408 RWHP 409 RWTQ

2 headers with high flow cats: 413 RWHP 410 RWTQ

====================================================

and yes there are Ram's that successfully run 1-7/8" LT's

Fastest NA Ram , Ethan (greychevy) has 1-7/8" ARH's LT's
4.56's and 3000 stall put him at the top of the list.

12.801 @ 103.63 - 2012 1500 RCSB 4WD 5.7L - N/A - GreyChevy - 01/24/14

That's what I'm running on my truck. I was concerned as well but the results speak for themselves.

 

[MGRAM]

BRH have to hand it to you in getting some good info and posting it

 

[BlackRamHemi]

Thanks Matt!

Just 1 week from purchase to my Door step

 

[Darkflow]

I want to see what kind of y-pipe designs JBA comes out with. Don't really want to do the custom route as there aren't really top notch exhaust shops here.

 

[BlackRamHemi]

"This header kit come with reducers so you can hook them up to the factory Y-pipe or we will have a couple different options on Y-Pipes in the near future. Parts are already in stock at Moe's Performance or your favorite retailer."

I had no reducers in the box,
got all the hardware, O2 extensions,4 gaskets



For now, I was planning on just welding up to my stock crosspipe and Magnaflow Y pipe (already on)

Eventually will get a new cross pipe so I can run a Deep trans pan, so I'll need a new Y or a new Tru X magnaflow muffler
(Will call on Matt again when I'm ready)