MDS Delete SOLVED

[Bmags]

Holy fluck Batman,now that's a back pedal if i ever seen one
Glad to see the lighbulb is starting to come,it's mighty dim yet,but hopefully if you do some more research,it'll get brighter
Must suck having to admit higher idle rpm might help,as it was me who first pointed that out to you.Post #36 is by me

Where is there a back pedal?!? Please re-read post #9 by me.

This whole discussion was on you saying to replace the MDS hardware. Then it moved into general issues with the Hemi engine (low idle for instance which I don't disagree with) but it's on a tangent from the post.

The post was disabling MDS via software.

I don't know how to help you with reading comprehension...

 

[Wild one]

Where is there a back pedal?!? Please re-read post #9 by me.

This whole discussion was on you saying to replace the MDS hardware. Then it moved into general issues with the Hemi engine (low idle for instance which I don't disagree with) but it's on a tangent from the post.

The post was disabling MDS via software.

I don't know how to help you with reading comprehension...

Post #9 by you has nothing in it that has any useful info,basically the same as all your other posts in this thread,no useful info by you,or your buddy who seems to have latched onto your coat tails.
I'm seeing back pedaling from you now. For a bit i thought the light bulb was starting to come on for you,but now i'm not so sure anymore.
Still waiting for your thoughts on the hellcat pump,you haven't answered that question yet,i asked you about it in post #55,and here we are at post #61 and still no reply from you

 

[Jerrybob]

"If we have to stop this truck!" My mother use to say that to my brother and I often.

 

[Wild one]

"If we have to stop this truck!" My mother use to say that to my brother and I often.

The other one that was bad was "wait till your father gets home"

 

[JHoward]

In my hmo, If or when my HEMI decides to chew the cam/lifters, I'd consider doing a complete MDS delete and necessary replacement parts. I'd leave the original oil pump if it's still good and have the HP Tuner with MDS deleted with the idle bumped up to 750 rpms along with continued use of high moly/zinc oil Red Line 5w/30 and drive the **** outta it!

The Hell Cat oil pump moves more oil, but it may be just the same as to have the idle bumped up ... leaving the factory tune alone and adding the Hell Cat pump could be just the same moving more oil at lower factory spec. rpms? Either route will be more expensive (Tune/and or high volume oil pump) than just going back and replacing OEM cam/lifters that my HEMI rolled off the assembly line with which that wouldn't be wise either in the long run, idk.

 

[JHoward]

Actually, I do know why I'm commenting ... my truck could still be totaled out if parts are not available ... no frames in stock and hanging on the parts rack.

 

[JHoward]

And fwiw, OP. Your method you chose for MDS delete is old news. Folks have already been doing the delete you posted.

But, still glad you have your rig running and performing like you want it to ... that's what is good and keep the hammer down!

 

[Bmags]

Post #9 by you has nothing in it that has any useful info,basically the same as all your other posts in this thread,no useful info by you,or your buddy who seems to have latched onto your coat tails.
I'm seeing back pedaling from you now. For a bit i thought the light bulb was starting to come on for you,but now i'm not so sure anymore.
Still waiting for your thoughts on the hellcat pump,you haven't answered that question yet,i asked you about it in post #55,and here we are at post #61 and still no reply from you

Lets try this one more time for those following along at home. Get your popcorn ready!
My post:
Just wanted to share this, pulled the trigger and had my ECU tuned to delete the MDS from functioning. Super simple, mailed my PCM out and he mailed it back with no more MDS!!! The guy said if sending in my current PCM wasn't an option, that sourcing a used one could work too.

Your post:
I don't think it's all that wise to disable the mds,unless you do it properly,and that's pull the MDS solenoids and replace them with the factory MDS block-off plugs,then swap lifters and cam to a non-mds set-up.Throw in the fact i don't think MDS is the issue with lifter failure,as both non-mds and mds lifters have been known to give trouble. If MDS was an actual issue,the 6 speed manual transmission 5.7 and 6.4 Challengers would never have lifter issues,and they have just as many lifter issues as the automatic transmission engines with mds have,if not more.If you factor in the amount of non-mds manual transmission Challengers they built,there's a pile of them having cam/lifter issues in comparision to the amount of MDS engines they've built.
There's quite a few outfits who'll delete the MDS in your factory PCM ,MMX has been offering that service for quite awhile now,and i know lots of tuner outfits on the Hi-Po facebook pages also offer the same service

My post:
Why is that not wise? If the truck disables it in manual mode what makes you feel that it’s not safe to run that way all the time? You think Dodge made it to intentionally fail if driven like that?

Also, if the concern is lifter failure, and we aren’t sure whether the non-MDS setup is any better (and if trucks without MDS disabled are having issues as well)… then you might as well disable with software and run it. Then in the event they fail, feel free to replace with the non-MDS hardware.

Replacing before hand makes no sense.

My post later:
As was mentioned by others in this thread, there are certainly benefits to changing some parts/parameters on any given engine. For instance, higher idle speed would make sense to me as an attempt to lubricate better. Any of those things MIGHT help SOME people SOME OF the time.

The issue I have is that you say to delete MDS the right way someone should disable in a tune AND THEN ALSO replace all their hardware. But, if we know that non MDS engines have lifter and cam issues just like the MDS engines, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to replace hardware that isn't broken. If someone was concerned and trying to prevent the tick then by all means do whatever other mods tickle your fancy... but for you to tell someone the "right" way to do something because that's what you "feel" like (and leave out the facts) that is just plain wrong.

I have been saying all along you are incorrect that all the hardware needs to be replaced. This post was not a discussion on tips and tricks to avoid MDS failure. You have a real tough time coloring inside the lines.

 

[Bmags]

Post #9 by you has nothing in it that has any useful info,basically the same as all your other posts in this thread,no useful info by you,or your buddy who seems to have latched onto your coat tails.
I'm seeing back pedaling from you now. For a bit i thought the light bulb was starting to come on for you,but now i'm not so sure anymore.
Still waiting for your thoughts on the hellcat pump,you haven't answered that question yet,i asked you about it in post #55,and here we are at post #61 and still no reply from you

Yes, please see post #59. There are certainly benefits to changing hardware for some folks based on driving habits. But it is not correct to link operator error to design error. If I want to drive my truck through 3 feet of mud I can add on mods to make that possible. Should I complain to FCA that their truck is faulty since I want to drive through deep mud? Apparently yes in your world.

These trucks are not designed to idle all day long, but some people do that. Is that a design problem, or an operator issue?

 

[Wild one]

In my hmo, If or when my HEMI decides to chew the cam/lifters, I'd consider doing a complete MDS delete and necessary replacement parts. I'd leave the original oil pump if it's still good and have the HP Tuner with MDS deleted with the idle bumped up to 750 rpms along with continued use of high moly/zinc oil Red Line 5w/30 and drive the **** outta it!

The Hell Cat oil pump moves more oil, but it may be just the same as to have the idle bumped up ... leaving the factory tune alone and adding the Hell Cat pump could be just the same moving more oil at lower factory spec. rpms? Either route will be more expensive (Tune/and or high volume oil pump) than just going back and replacing OEM cam/lifters that my HEMI rolled off the assembly line with which that wouldn't be wise either in the long run, idk.

I agree as i think bumping the idle rpm accomplishes pretty well the same thing as the hellcat pump does,but with the benefit of more oil flung onto the cam lobes.I have the idle rpm set to roughly 750 on all 3 of my Chryco products. The truck with it's dual remote filters has the highest idle pressure with roughly 51/52 psi hot,while my 5.7 300 idles at roughly 48/49 psi hot,and the wifes 6.4 Challenger with the piston squirters idles at roughly 43/44 psi hot.The (2) 5.7's run 5W-30 Redline,and the Challenger is still on 0W-40 Pennzoil Ultra Platinium with a bottle of Lubegard.The 2 cars run about 55/56 psi at highway speeds,and the truck runs about 58/59 psi at the same highway rpm. The most i'd do is maybe add a shim to the stock pumps bypass spring,but i'm not taking any of them apart to do that,lol

 

[Bmags]

And fwiw, OP. Your method you chose for MDS delete is old news. Folks have already been doing the delete you posted.

But, still glad you have your rig running and performing like you want to ... that's what is good and keep the hammer down!

Yes, not new news, but priced right from what I have seen by others.

 

[Wild one]

Lets try this one more time for those following along at home. Get your popcorn ready!
My post:
Just wanted to share this, pulled the trigger and had my ECU tuned to delete the MDS from functioning. Super simple, mailed my PCM out and he mailed it back with no more MDS!!! The guy said if sending in my current PCM wasn't an option, that sourcing a used one could work too.

Your post:
I don't think it's all that wise to disable the mds,unless you do it properly,and that's pull the MDS solenoids and replace them with the factory MDS block-off plugs,then swap lifters and cam to a non-mds set-up.Throw in the fact i don't think MDS is the issue with lifter failure,as both non-mds and mds lifters have been known to give trouble. If MDS was an actual issue,the 6 speed manual transmission 5.7 and 6.4 Challengers would never have lifter issues,and they have just as many lifter issues as the automatic transmission engines with mds have,if not more.If you factor in the amount of non-mds manual transmission Challengers they built,there's a pile of them having cam/lifter issues in comparision to the amount of MDS engines they've built.
There's quite a few outfits who'll delete the MDS in your factory PCM ,MMX has been offering that service for quite awhile now,and i know lots of tuner outfits on the Hi-Po facebook pages also offer the same service

My post:
Why is that not wise? If the truck disables it in manual mode what makes you feel that it’s not safe to run that way all the time? You think Dodge made it to intentionally fail if driven like that?

Also, if the concern is lifter failure, and we aren’t sure whether the non-MDS setup is any better (and if trucks without MDS disabled are having issues as well)… then you might as well disable with software and run it. Then in the event they fail, feel free to replace with the non-MDS hardware.

Replacing before hand makes no sense.

My post later:
As was mentioned by others in this thread, there are certainly benefits to changing some parts/parameters on any given engine. For instance, higher idle speed would make sense to me as an attempt to lubricate better. Any of those things MIGHT help SOME people SOME OF the time.

The issue I have is that you say to delete MDS the right way someone should disable in a tune AND THEN ALSO replace all their hardware. But, if we know that non MDS engines have lifter and cam issues just like the MDS engines, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to replace hardware that isn't broken. If someone was concerned and trying to prevent the tick then by all means do whatever other mods tickle your fancy... but for you to tell someone the "right" way to do something because that's what you "feel" like (and leave out the facts) that is just plain wrong.

I have been saying all along you are incorrect that all the hardware needs to be replaced. This post was not a discussion on tips and tricks to avoid MDS failure. You have a real tough time coloring inside the lines.

I'll give you 1 thing,you do make me laugh. Nothing in this thread by you means squat to making the lifters live longer,if anything it might even shorten the life of the lifters,but you're to stubborn to realize that. If you'd watch the video links i posted,you might realize what you're doing,isn't helping your lifters,as he goes into very good detail on why mds is beneficial ,unless you delete it the way the factory does. Get off your stubborn high horse,and watch the damn video's. The amount of time you've spent arguing a dumb idea,you could of watched them a couple times by now. The majority of "others" in this thread are me,trying to explain to you,the downsides to doing it the way you're doing it. The way you're doing it,actually cuts oil flow to the lifters,that's all explained in the video links.

 

[Bigskyroadglide]

So, after this much spirited debate the non disputed conclusions appear to be

Raising idle speed is good

Running redline 5w30 is good

Or
Running penzoil ultra platinum with lube guard is good

raising idle speed and the hellcat pump yield about the same results but one is more effort.

FCA revised an old engine to sell lots of vehicles

We still will have lifter/cam problems based on the design

MDS being good or bad is debatable

if you don't know where you're going any road will get you there.....

Yup, I think I'm clear on the take aways.

 

[JHoward]

I'll give you 1 thing,you do make me laugh. Nothing in this thread by you means squat to making the lifters live longer,if anything it might even shorten the life of the lifters,but you're to stubborn to realize that. If you'd watch the video links i posted,you might realize what you're doing,isn't helping your lifters,as he goes into very good detail on why mds is beneficial ,unless you delete it the way the factory does. Get off your stubborn high horse,and watch the damn video's. The amount of time you've spent arguing a dumb idea,you could of watched them a couple times by now. The majority of "others" in this thread are me,trying to explain to you,the downsides to doing it the way you're doing it. The way you're doing it,actually cuts oil flow to the lifters,that's all explained in the video links.

Yep, If I were to go just the route of an "aftermarket tune" I'd just bump the idle up for the time being, but wouldn't it not be cost effective by not doing the MDS delete at the same time ... if I'm gonna spend the money, might as well do the came and lifters with the tune at the same time.

I'm not a fan of MDS, but I let it do it's thing.

Probably makes more since just to keep idling at bare minimum and consistent oci's Red Line 5w/30 until or if my engine should implode.

 

[Wild one]

Yep, If I were to go just the route of an "aftermarket tune" I'd just bump the idle up for the time being, but wouldn't it not be cost effective by not doing the MDS delete at the same time ... if I'm gonna spend the money, might as well do the came and lifters with the tune at the same time.

I'm not a fan of MDS, but I let it do it's thing.

Probably makes more since just to keep idling at bare minimum and consistent oci's Red Line 5w/30 until or if my engine should implode.

I'm a believer in deleting the mds when you do a cam,just not a believer in turning it off in a tune on a stock truck.But if you're inside the engine replacing a cam and lifters,then by all means pull the solenoids out and replace them with the plugs and use a non-mds cam and lifter set-up,and crank the idle rpm up

 

[Bmags]

I'll give you 1 thing,you do make me laugh. Nothing in this thread by you means squat to making the lifters live longer,if anything it might even shorten the life of the lifters,but you're to stubborn to realize that. If you'd watch the video links i posted,you might realize what you're doing,isn't helping your lifters,as he goes into very good detail on why mds is beneficial ,unless you delete it the way the factory does. Get off your stubborn high horse,and watch the damn video's. The amount of time you've spent arguing a dumb idea,you could of watched them a couple times by now. The majority of "others" in this thread are me,trying to explain to you,the downsides to doing it the way you're doing it. The way you're doing it,actually cuts oil flow to the lifters,that's all explained in the video links.

Are you done yet?

Cutting oil to the lifters has no known (increased) detrimental effects on the engine. I see no proof that disabling MDS via a tune causes any more cam/lifter issues than:
1) engines with factory non-MDS hardware
2) engines with MDS functioning as normal.

 

[kdoublep]

@Wild one How do I bump my idle? I only have Alfa. Can it be done with Alfa?

Please advise. Thanks.

 

[Wild one]

Are you done yet?

Cutting oil to the lifters has no known (increased) detrimental effects on the engine. I see no proof that deleting MDS via a tune causes any more cam/lifter issues than those on with factory non-MDS hardware or those allowing MDS to function as normal.

Jesus you are stubborn aren't you. In what world doesn't cutting oil flow to the lifters on a Hemi hurt the lifters,they're already marginally oiled as it is,and you think cutting oil to them doesn't hurt them.I'm guessing you've never taken an engine apart and seen how the lifter bores can scuff from lack of oil. Come on man,give your head a shake,and actually think before you post.
I'm really starting to think,you like to argue,just to hear yourself argue,as you certainly aren't making any sense,and it seems to be getting worse

 

[Bmags]

I'll give you 1 thing,you do make me laugh. Nothing in this thread by you means squat to making the lifters live longer,if anything it might even shorten the life of the lifters,but you're to stubborn to realize that. If you'd watch the video links i posted,you might realize what you're doing,isn't helping your lifters,as he goes into very good detail on why mds is beneficial ,unless you delete it the way the factory does. Get off your stubborn high horse,and watch the damn video's. The amount of time you've spent arguing a dumb idea,you could of watched them a couple times by now. The majority of "others" in this thread are me,trying to explain to you,the downsides to doing it the way you're doing it. The way you're doing it,actually cuts oil flow to the lifters,that's all explained in the video links.

This thread was not meant to be a discussion on making the lifters live longer... it was on how to easily disable MDS! Oh you sir are funny.

 

[Wild one]

@Wild one How do I bump my idle? I only have Alfa. Can it be done with Alfa?

Please advise. Thanks.

I don't think you can bump the idle rpm with AlfaOBD,but i'll be the first to say,i'm not all the familiar with everything Alpha can do.Usually it takes a tune to bump up the idle rpm,but if there's another way to do it with AlphaOBD or Jscan,i'm sure somebody will correct me