Pentastar vs Hemi, which should you choose?

[Dodge trucker]

I'll split the difference. I bought a 2012 reg cab long bed 2wd with the 4.7 about 6weeks ago. Was wanting a hemi but also insisted on a pickup that did NOT have 4 doors, the pickins was slim.
I wanted the hemi, but this 10 yo truck was plenty costly in this day and age. Very close to the most I have ever paid for a vehicle. Only one I paid more for was back in 2000 when I bought the 1997 wrangler. And that was $1000 more for what was only 3 years old with 1/5 of the miles my 12 has on it.
So I gave up on the hemi and seeking out something that isn't white as well. 310hp and 335 torque is more than I have ever had before, as it is. I was afraid of the 4.7 for years because of the sludge and valve seat issues of the early versions.
But I have been hearing alot better returns on the 16 spark plug version than the 4.7s that were older than that. I much prefer the 318s (5.2) and 360s (5.9) largely for familiarity so finally relenting to a 4.7 (due to the old tried and true no longer being put into the newer trucks) is something of an experiment for me at the same time.
So far mileage is at worst the same as the 3.9 Dakota it replaced, usually a little bit better so far.

 

[Huliodude]

@Huliodude You made me do it. LOL. I threw a piece of cardboard on the snow and took a pic underneath my 2019 classic, hemi, that does not have the 3-way coolant valve. As I thought. I've still got the ATF heater on my 8hp70 as all do as far as I'm aware. If yours indeed does not have the ATF heater, out of curiosity, I'd like to see a pic.

The amount of road salt under my truck is depressing. I'm fluid filmed and woolwaxed, but still. Ugh..

View attachment 485239

@PoMansRam , thanks for doing that. I went under my truck as well, and I too have the heat exchanger. Pics below.





So I'm thoroughly confused now. It was hard to move around under the truck, but it appears that there are 4 lines going to and from this heat exchanger. I'm guessing 2 lines are going to and from the fluid cooler that's part of the AC condenser, and the 2 bigger lines are delivering coolant to and from the radiator. I have no idea how it operates without the 3 way coolant valve that used to exist under the air cleaner on the older 4th gens. I can tell you that my transmission takes very long to warm up without the 3 way valve, where my V6 that had it warmed up the trans much faster.

So if there is coolant flowing to this heat exchanger all the time, I'm guessing an internal thermostat is preventing it from exchanging heat from the coolant to the trans fluid until the transmission is warmed up on its own??? No idea... hoping someone else knows how it works without a 3 way valve.

 

[PoMansRam]

@Huliodude thanks for the pics. I haven't traced out the coolant flow path to/from the ATF heater, but like you say, the ATF heater does have a thermostat on it's ATF side. There's a huge thread here on how to bypass this. You're right though. ATF temps seem to run lower without the 3-way valve.

 

[crash68]

I'm guessing 2 lines are going to and from the fluid cooler that's part of the AC condenser, and the 2 bigger lines are delivering coolant to and from the radiator. I have no idea how it operates without the 3 way coolant valve that used to exist under the air cleaner on the older 4th gens.

The three way valve was there to direct coolant to the TMU if it wasn't needed for cab heat(heater core).
The thermal bypass in the TMU is what controls the transmission temperature by directing trans fluid to the AC condenser coil.
As for your V6 trans warming faster it was probably a combination of the engine/coolant warming up faster and it shifted more. The V6 also uses a slightly different version of the 8spd.

 

[geo1367]

I have had two RAM 1500 with the 3.6. IMO the RAM 1500 with the 3.6 is a light duty truck. Just driving up a steep hill on the freeway going West on Hwy 44 in Missouri headed to Springfield required to change gears to 6th just to keep up with traffic. Say nothing about towing a 4,000 lb trailer, the 3.6 with its 269 lbs of torque is very poor. The gas mpg is only 2 mpg more at best and not worth the frustration of having big diesel trucks pass you by.

I hear what you're saying. Bought a 2021 Warlock 3.6, what a mistake, I live in the mountains of Pennsylvania and that little engine screams and vibrates the floors constantly. On a 23 mile trip to town, I'd bet the transmission shifts close to a hundred times. And I don't exceed the speed limits so I'm not beating this thing, it's just way under-powered for where I live. Looking to get rid of it as soon as possible.

 

[Dr. Righteous]

Past few months Dad has been complain his 3.6L Big Horn has been getting much worse gas mileage. So I checked thing out for him and really couldn't find anything wrong. Running and driving 100%. While he was in the hospital getting a pacemaker I drove it on errands and trips like 100 miles round trip to Cookeville to find it was getting pretty good mileage; Mid 20s highway. The other day I went with dad while he drove and found; yeah, nothing wrong with the truck. Pop's driving skills were gone. He would stab the throttle instead of accelerate easily. He has hard on the brakes when he didn't need to be. He was driving way faster than he should. We pulled up into the Walmart parking lot and he got a handicap spot and banged into the post. (dinging the grill guard pretty good). Basically his driving perception has disappeared. He shouldn't be driving at all.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Past few months Dad has been complain his 3.6L Big Horn has been getting much worse gas mileage. So I checked thing out for him and really couldn't find anything wrong. Running and driving 100%. While he was in the hospital getting a pacemaker I drove it on errands and trips like 100 miles round trip to Cookeville to find it was getting pretty good mileage; Mid 20s highway. The other day I went with dad while he drove and found; yeah, nothing wrong with the truck. Pop's driving skills were gone. He would stab the throttle instead of accelerate easily. He has hard on the brakes when he didn't need to be. He was driving way faster than he should. We pulled up into the Walmart parking lot and he got a handicap spot and banged into the post. (dinging the grill guard pretty good). Basically his driving perception has disappeared. He shouldn't be driving at all.

That's always a difficult discussion. Losing the ability to drive in most of the US means losing substantial freedom and independance. I've had the 'you need to have the conversation' conversation with several families after papaw got into a crash of some severity.

 

[Stavinksi]

I had a grand Cherokee with the v6 and found it very adequate until I test drove the same suv with a Hemi. Wow!!

When I traded for my ram I turned down a couple of trucks just because they had the v6. I wanted the hemi in a full size truck

My son-in-law has a Ram with the v6 and he never hauls anything but his kids, but he complains about it all the time. He wants a new truck with a v8 but my daughter won’t let him…haha

Dude help a brother out and talk to your daughter. This a man code violation if there ever was one!

 

[Hatchet Man]

The ONLY thing I don’t like about the HEMI is the fuel consumption.

I always use premium, I have a very bad habit of mashing the go pedal, and I have a 6.4L.

 

[Spenny01]

I'm very happy with my V6. Plenty of power even on the mountains here in WV. Mine is single cab 4wd. My son has a crew cab Hemi which has loads of power.

 

[runamuck]

I wouldnt consider one for a truck unless it's just a daily driver. when I bought my first ram back in 2003 they were pushing the smaller v8 too but I drove one and it sucked. the salesman even told me "dont buy that one for the mileage. you will have your foot in it so much that the mileage wont be any better" and he was right. the 5.7 in my truck runs so good it is worth the extra cpl. hundred bucks a year in fuel cost.

 

[El_Lobo_Gris1500C]

I test drove a 2021 DT Ram 1500 with the V6 and ended up getting a 2021 Ram 1500 Classic with the 5.7L and 3.92 gears. Previous to this I had a 2019 1500 Classic with the 5.7L and 3.55 gears. Both trucks have good get up and go, the new truck with the 3.92 obviously has a little more torque and go off the line. Both trucks warmed up quickly in my experience (in the GTA of Ontario Canada) and within 5-10 mins running warm with heat on my toes and windshield, so not sure why the OP found it took an hour to warm up with his V8, seems like something might be wrong there (t-stat? Sensor faulty?).

I just always figured that I’m buying a full size truck, I don’t want a minivan engine in it. I want to feel it go when I step on the gas pedal, and I want to be able to pass, merge, get up to speed on the highway on-ramps quick as possible so, the V6 was just not ideal for me when buying a full size pickup. Yes you might save a little on fuel (which at the moment would be great with the ridiculous gas prices we’re currently seeing around here) but, it doesn’t save THAT much to justify giving up the HP and torque improvements going with the 5.7 over the Pentastar engine.

 

[Lurker55]

Personally… I have a V6 with 3.55 rear axle. And due to a car accident I got to spend time with a 5.7 hemi for 3 months while waiting for repairs.

In my opinion, and for the most part my V6 is a commuter truck with 4500lbs towing 6-9 times a year. The V6 is great. Especially with the prices of gas right now. It’s definitely quieter than the hemi, on throttle or just cruising on highway. To me I found the overall cabin volume to be constantly louder. Don’t get me wrong, the hemi sounds great, and it’s acceleration is awesome, I won’t be beating it in a race.

But the best I could get the hemi down to was 13.6L and my V6 easily gets 10.6L per 100kms. Todays Russian war gas prices, I prefer that, quieter cabin, and smooth driving… I just don’t really need it.

If I had a real need for that towing power of the hemi, or feel the need to drag race, then sure but this pentastar V6 is cheaper to run, maintain, and quieter. If you don’t need it…

 

[CrazyTrain62]

I just replaced a 2019 with a 2022 1500, both with the Pentastar & limited slip 3.55 ratio. My lead foot wanted me to order the 5.7, but I asked myself if that would make me happier. The answer was no. For my needs I was very pleased with the 3.6 and still am.

 

[Lurker55]

I just replaced a 2019 with a 2022 1500, both with the Pentastar & limited slip 3.55 ratio. My lead foot wanted me to order the 5.7, but I asked myself if that would make me happier. The answer was no. For my needs I was very pleased with the 3.6 and still am.

I work here at the plant that builds the 6.2L red eye challengers and chargers… god these cars are a beautiful dream. I’ve driven them.

One thing I can say for sure is… if I had that power under my foot, how would I not use it? Doesn’t matter what the blurred signs of the pump prices say as I fly past them. The engine power, the sound of the exhaust, the slight blip of the pedal and the g-force feeling all encourages me to go faster. These cars are always just begging you to open them up. The 5.7 hemi regular is begging the same!!!

But unless I’m at a track, or racing, im still limited to 100kms (or 120kms) no matter how fast I get to it. I’m just inviting additional expenses, whether it be tickets, lack of fuel economy, maintenance, or whatever…

I guess what I’m trying to say is there is a NEED vs WANT equation that has to be answered…

Got to pay to play no??? Lol!

 

[PowrRam]

Yes you might save a little on fuel (which at the moment would be great with the ridiculous gas prices we’re currently seeing around here) but, it doesn’t save THAT much to justify giving up the HP and torque improvements going with the 5.7 over the Pentastar engine.

Figure the hemi gets 15 mpg overall and the Pentastar gets 20 mpg overall. In a year where you drive 12,000 miles that is a difference of 200 gallons of gas used.

Take whatever the prevailing price of gas is and multiply it by 200 gallons. That's how much more the hemi costs to run for a year at this particular point in time. Here in Minneapolis, last summer with gas at $3.25/gallon it would have cost $650 more for the hemi. Right now, with gas at $4.09/gallon it would cost $818 more per year.

Everybody has to decide if an extra $800 a year is worth it or not.

 

[PowrRam]

Personally… I have a V6 with 3.55 rear axle. And due to a car accident I got to spend time with a 5.7 hemi for 3 months while waiting for repairs.

I had a similar situation where I had a loaner with a hemi in it for 3 days. I reset the EVIC and the trip odometer then calculated the gas mileage when I turned it in. This was in dead of winter so I only got 12 mpg in the hemi, whereas I typically get 17 mpg with my Pentastar under the same conditions. Sure it was a blast tromping on the gas when getting onto the freeway a couple of times but I just couldn't have lived with the hemi's gas mileage long term.

 

[quickster2]

If you don't need it the V-6 is plenty good. Also it runs on regular vs. the Hemi's recommended mid-grade especially when towing. Never missed the Hemi in my Durango GT Plus. Had a few hemi Durango's previously.

 

[El_Lobo_Gris1500C]

Figure the hemi gets 15 mpg overall and the Pentastar gets 20 mpg overall. In a year where you drive 12,000 miles that is a difference of 200 gallons of gas used.

Take whatever the prevailing price of gas is and multiply it by 200 gallons. That's how much more the hemi costs to run for a year at this particular point in time. Here in Minneapolis, last summer with gas at $3.25/gallon it would have cost $650 more for the hemi. Right now, with gas at $4.09/gallon it would cost $818 more per year.

Everybody has to decide if an extra $800 a year is worth it or not.

15 mpg that’s hilarious lol!!! My truck currently says I’m averaging 8.1 mpg (99% in city driving 40-70 km/hr average with stop and go to and from work as a majority of my driving)

Of course it’s up to the individual what is more important, power vs economy, whether they tow/haul or just commute etc.

If fuel economy and efficiency is at the forefront of the person’s mind, then they probably shouldn’t buy a truck at all, and look at more efficient SUV’s or small efficient aerodynamic cars. Trucks are either a necessity for work or hauling/towing equipment and materials, or they are a lifestyle choice or preference based on an emotional decision and not an economical or financially intelligent decision.

This happens all the time though, people want the look and feel of a full size truck, then they want the bragging rights of a big powerful V8 engine with horsepower and torque, and then as soon as the fuel prices start going up they start complaining and worrying if they made a smart decision, and if fuel economy and prices/costs are most important to you as a buyer, then you have not made a wise decision in buying a full size truck with a 395hp V8 engine lol.

Higher fuel costs and consumption are the reality of owning a truck, and you can’t have a super efficient vehicle AND a full size truck with a V8 engine with current technology in the Ram 1500. Going with a smaller mid size or small truck, or a new EV truck when they are available is probably your best bet if fuel prices and economy are of paramount importance to the buyer.

It all comes down to what you want, miles per gallon, or smiles per gallon.

 

[ramffml]

Figure the hemi gets 15 mpg overall and the Pentastar gets 20 mpg overall. In a year where you drive 12,000 miles that is a difference of 200 gallons of gas used.

You can't actually figure that. I had the v6 in my jeep gc and in my usage I saw average of 12 l/100 km in the lighter/smaller jeep vs 13-13.5 l/100 km in my bigger heavier truck.

If you do all city you will save more with the v6. On the freeway where the hemi can stretch its legs and keep the RPMs down? Very little difference.