Synthetic Oil

[Hemi395]

Need your guys opinion, I did an oil change on the wife's Grand Cherokee yesterday. I used some PUP 0w20 I had that I really wanted to get rid of. It was a 5qt jug and 1 quart, the 3.6 takes 6qts. The 5 qt jug had a date of 10/2016 on it. Drained the oil, changed the filter, marveled at how easy the 3.6 is to change oil on, and poured in the new oil. Oil from both containers looked normal.

Late last night I was about to dump the used oil in the 5qt jug and I noticed the bottom had large crusty dark gray flakes on the bottom. Like a lot of them. Not the usual additive fallout, these were large flakes floating around in the residual oil. I smelled the empty jug and it didn't smell like normal PUP oil which has a unique "clean" scent to it.

So my question is should I be safe and dump it for some SS0w20 I have, or just run it and pray?

 

[HEMIMANN]

HPL Oil - Superior Lubricants Made in the USA, located in Hebron, IN

Explore the dynamics of HPL Superior Lubricants. See the background, diversity, results and future of our high performance lubricants line. Located in Northwest Indiana and we have distributors all over the world, plus can ship anywhere!

www.hploil.com

This is also made by high performance lubricants. Heres a VOA and spec sheet as well as photo of the label. Its not the same oil but made by same company for precision turbo. I thought you were referring to this label as a knock off

Travis, the representative I spoke with @ HPL made NO mention of another outlet in Illinois.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 4:59 PM David Stoiber <[email protected]> wrote:

Hello Brian!

Yes, you can buy from our distributor Advanced Lubrication - this is our direct-to-consumer company. www.advlubrication.com use discount code BITOG15 to get 15% off.

Best,
David Stoiber / Plant Manager

[email protected]
High Performance Lubricants
500 S. Spruce Street / Manteno, IL 60950
Office: 815.468.3535 / Fax: 815.468.1010
http://www.hplubricants.com

 

[HEMIMANN]

Need your guys opinion, I did an oil change on the wife's Grand Cherokee yesterday. I used some PUP 0w20 I had that I really wanted to get rid of. It was a 5qt jug and 1 quart, the 3.6 takes 6qts. The 5 qt jug had a date of 10/2016 on it. Drained the oil, changed the filter, marveled at how easy the 3.6 is to change oil on, and poured in the new oil. Oil from both containers looked normal.

Late last night I was about to dump the used oil in the 5qt jug and I noticed the bottom had large crusty dark gray flakes on the bottom. Like a lot of them. Not the usual additive fallout, these were large flakes floating around in the residual oil. I smelled the empty jug and it didn't smell like normal PUP oil which has a unique "clean" scent to it.

So my question is should I be safe and dump it for some SS0w20 I have, or just run it and pray?

I'm a little confused - you had oil (6 years) new oil, yes? Generally, non-Group IV oils are limited to 2 year storage life, due to aging and separation. Did you shake the new oil jugs prior to filling?

What was the drain oil and how old was that? And no, large flakes are obviously not normal or desirable. Did you pull a UOA?

Can't recommend until we know a little more about the situation.

 

[Hemi395]

I'm a little confused - you had oil (6 years) new oil, yes? Generally, non-Group IV oils are limited to 2 year storage life, due to aging and separation. Did you shake the new oil jugs prior to filling?







What was the drain oil and how old was that? And no, large flakes are obviously not normal or desirable. Did you pull a UOA?







Can't recommend until we know a little more about the situation.

Sorry typed that really quick, the flakes I mentioned were in the bottom of the PUP jug before I dumped thLie drain oil in. The oil that drained out was perfectly normal looking and smelling. I'm just concerned about what I just poured into my wife's GC.

From what you said it sounds like GIII GTL oils break down over time and I shouldn't have used an old oil like that?

 

[tjfdesmo]

Easy for me to say, but when in doubt dump it, IMHO.

I'll add that our GC Pentastar is quite happy on M1 EP 0W20.

 

[ramffml]

IIRC its around 375 ppm but the euro and supercar oil contain more zddp than the PCMO line FWIW

So why would one use the euro version over the premium plus, which has 850 ppm?

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/PC-Premium-Plus-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

 

[Hemi395]

Easy for me to say, but when in doubt dump it, IMHO.

I'll add that our GC Pentastar is quite happy on M1 EP 0W20.

Yeah I agree, oil is cheap, Pentastars are not....

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yeah, additive dropout. Shell had a real problem with it for some years, I read about it but no one spilled the beans why.
I don't recall if shaking it was enough to put back into suspension. I shake all my jugs before filling as matter of habit now. Don't want to pump stratified oil in your engine. Who knows how long it would take to remix completely, if ever.
In the meantime, you'd have additive depleted and saturated oil strata flowing through you engine. Not good.

One guess is they didn't use enough of the more expensive ester oil to carry all the additives in suspension, seeing as GTL was new for Shell (WWII German synthetic process), as GTL is nearly an API Group IV PAO, it needs more ester to completely suspend additives. i.e. - it is an API Group III Plus. I believe I read they since "fixed" the additive dropout issue.

A pure API Group IV PAO can't carry additives in suspension - the molecules are too perfect and nonpolar to latch on to. Esters (POE) are POLAR molecules and carry around additives, as well as soot, easily.

 

[Travis8352]

So why would one use the euro version over the premium plus, which has 850 ppm?

https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/PC-Premium-Plus-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf

It uses an old school euro additive package. High calcium, high zddp. Think of it as what m1 FS is to m1 EP. it is geared more towards porsche, bmw, mercedes benz, vw etc. the premium plus is an "API" style but id use that term loosely as it goes WAY beyond ANY API liscensed oil

 

[Travis8352]

Yeah, additive dropout. Shell had a real problem with it for some years, I read about it but no one spilled the beans why.
I don't recall if shaking it was enough to put back into suspension. I shake all my jugs before filling as matter of habit now. Don't want to pump stratified oil in your engine. Who knows how long it would take to remix completely, if ever.
In the meantime, you'd have additive depleted and saturated oil strata flowing through you engine. Not good.

One guess is they didn't use enough of the more expensive ester oil to carry all the additives in suspension, seeing as GTL was new for Shell (WWII German synthetic process), as GTL is nearly an API Group IV PAO, it needs more ester to completely suspend additives. i.e. - it is an API Group III Plus. I believe I read they since "fixed" the additive dropout issue.

A pure API Group IV PAO can't carry additives in suspension - the molecules are too perfect and nonpolar to latch on to. Esters (POE) are POLAR molecules and carry around additives, as well as soot, easily.

Im not sure shell is using any ester for additive soluability. They are either using ANs or some other way. I could see them using ANs from mobil since mobil gets GTL from shell

 

[HEMIMANN]

Im not sure shell is using any ester for additive soluability. They are either using ANs or some other way. I could see them using ANs from mobil since mobil gets GTL from shell

Mobil 1 always used esters. It said so on the cans, and what I was taught at their lube courses.

 

[Hemi395]

Just dumped it, not taking a chance with the wife's Jeep. She put about 30 miles on it and it didn't smell right draining out. 6qts of SS0w20 are now in it.

So yeah check your PUP if it's been sitting for awhile because it definitely goes bad.

What do you guys think about RL sitting for a long time because I have a ton of it lol.

@tjfdesmo good to know about the M1 EP in the Pentastar, might give that a shot along with Valvoline.

 

[Travis8352]

Mobil 1 always used esters. It said so on the cans, and what I was taught at their lube courses.

I dont think mobil 1 is using any ester anymore except in their ESP and FS oils. The API lines use Alkylated Napthalenes instead.

 

[Travis8352]

Just dumped it, not taking a chance with the wife's Jeep. She put about 30 miles on it and it didn't smell right draining out. 6qts of SS0w20 are now in it.

So yeah check your PUP if it's been sitting for awhile because it definitely goes bad.

What do you guys think about RL sitting for a long time because I have a ton of it lol.

@tjfdesmo good to know about the M1 EP in the Pentastar, might give that a shot along with Valvoline.

@Burla spoke to dave about this and I believe dave said the shelf life is unlimited

 

[HEMIMANN]

I would trust that, being a true API Group IV / V from the get go, so they've never had additive drop out that I've heard of, and the base oil is rock solid.

Shell for sure had additive dropout for a while.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I dont think mobil 1 is using any ester anymore except in their ESP and FS oils. The API lines use Alkylated Napthalenes instead.

Well, that could very well be. I'm talking about when dinosaurs walked the earth & I was amongst them in *l*o*in skins.

 

[MRFREEZE57]

If you're not a member of a Harley Forum, sign up and you'll see a Red Line fanboy club, but not without reason. The $hit works - since Ram Hemi Forum members dug so deeply into this to minimize lifter ticking and cam failures, it stands to reason the same increased anti-wear additives and base stock of Red Line quiets down Harley - the moly plating of clanking parts, along with the ultra-high temperature resistance makes Red Line perfect for our high-loaded, hot-running Harleys! A bonus plus is very low evaporation (low NOACK) which is a huge benefit for minimizing the big thumper breather oil mist!

Have any of you tried that Lube Gard Biotech in the HD engine? My 2021 Road glide 114 is rattly on cold start and quiets down after 30 seconds or so, am thinking on adding some to the next change, have always used the M1 V Twin.

 

[Burla]

Harleys and Hemi's shelf oils just don't.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Have any of you tried that Lube Gard Biotech in the HD engine? My 2021 Road glide 114 is rattly on cold start and quiets down after 30 seconds or so, am thinking on adding some to the next change, have always used the M1 V Twin.

I suppose, but why not just use Red Line instead? You only change once a year with 5 quarts. Presuming you aren't putting more than 5,000 miles a year.

 

[Burn2k12Ram]

Well, that could very well be. I'm talking about when dinosaurs walked the earth & I was amongst them in *l*o*in skins.