Synthetic Oil

[Burla]

Boron is a detergent, yeah?

not like calcium, here is a write up on it molekule..

 

[Travis8352]

i believe it does

Maybe boron is the missing piece of the puzzle with these oils working or not

 

[Travis8352]

Boron is a detergent, yeah?

Boron is used as a detergent, antiwear additive, and a friction modifier

 

[HEMIMANN]

not like calcium, here is a write up on it molekule..

I'll be damned - I didn't know borates were polar, plated out, and had dry film lubricant properties. They are also a detergent, however, as many soluble polar molecules are.

 

[Burla]

Maybe boron is the missing piece of the puzzle with these oils working or not

Man, I seriously surrendered already, it is past my pay grade. If you add what worked sometimes to what didnt work and what works best and look for common ground, it is gonna take someone smarter then me to figure. Corey had one of the worst oils being 5w30 amsoil and yet unbelievably 0w40 amsoil was a solid choice for him. Not only corey but the early years and guys like tj who had 0w40 amsoil tick in his truck but not on redline 5w40, and so many things that don't add up, that I just say use whatever works for the truck that is ticking. Boron is low on biotech and yet that kills 50% of ticks. I wish I had better answers but glad to have some answers.

even mos2 had some luck, just not in my truck. and to my knowledge that is mainly powdered moly in oil with the nice addition of sulfur on the moly.

 

[MontanaHandyman]

I encourage you to look up oil filter thread sir. Two very good pages 1 and 93 for some actual testing results.

... and be sure to give all 4727 pages of this thread a good read as well...(that'll keep ya outta trouble for awhile! Lol!!

 

[Burla]

... and be sure to give all 4727 pages of this thread a good read as well...(that'll keep ya outta trouble for awhile! Lol!!

or get you into trouble.

 

[knightjp]

@Burla So far, Redline seems to be the oil that has it all.. moly, ester, zddp, boron, etc., and is the safest bet for curing the tick as well as prevention.
My money is on Ester and moly. Also I guess it also depends on how bad the lifters are. Each engine is not going to have the same exact wear. So it stands to reason why AMSoil 0W40 worked for one and not for the other.

We may not understand the science completely, but we can get close and we know Redline works and that is good enough for me.

 

[knightjp]

Once the build is done, Redline will be my oil of choice for the foreseeable future. I will be trying HPL at some point, but only if it is Ester-based.

 

[Travis8352]

Once the build is done, Redline will be my oil of choice for the foreseeable future. I will be trying HPL at some point, but only if it is Ester-based.

It has esters in it to

 

[Travis8352]

Man, I seriously surrendered already, it is past my pay grade. If you add what worked sometimes to what didnt work and what works best and look for common ground, it is gonna take someone smarter then me to figure. Corey had one of the worst oils being 5w30 amsoil and yet unbelievably 0w40 amsoil was a solid choice for him. Not only corey but the early years and guys like tj who had 0w40 amsoil tick in his truck but not on redline 5w40, and so many things that don't add up, that I just say use whatever works for the truck that is ticking. Boron is low on biotech and yet that kills 50% of ticks. I wish I had better answers but glad to have some answers.

even mos2 had some luck, just not in my truck. and to my knowledge that is mainly powdered moly in oil with the nice addition of sulfur on the moly.

Id love to say ceratec would test boron but its got as much boron as moly soo idk either.

 

[Travis8352]

... and be sure to give all 4727 pages of this thread a good read as well...(that'll keep ya outta trouble for awhile! Lol!!

I read 2000+ pages before my girlfriend closed the tab. Oh well

 

[kahmed17]

I encourage you to look up oil filter thread sir. Two very good pages 1 and 93 for some actual testing

I encourage you to look up oil filter thread sir. Two very good pages 1 and 93 for some actual testing results.

true there lots of good filters out there , but personally for me not under factory warranty I don’t want to get into an “ asking for it “ situation at the dealer if something breaks you know nice to see another blue star family member here

 

[schwartzy18510]

I'm trying to select an oil formulation for my new-to-me 5.7L HEMI, and have been poring over this, the Used Oil Analysis thread, and BITOG for the better part of the weekend. My truck has 208K miles with an unknown oil use history, so my goal with the first drain-and-fill is primarily to get a quality 5W-30 synthetic in it along with a Fram XG2 filter so I'm dealing with a known quantity as I gauge initial engine health and performance.

I'll probably run this fill for around 2-3K miles before draining it and sending it in for a UOA. It's still cold here in Michigan, but I do expect to be doing some towing (5,000 lb.) over some semi hilly terrain this spring and early summer on this OCI. With this in mind, I'm trying to select an oil for my initial drain-and-fill:

1) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 (+ Lubegard Biotech) — Seems to result in the lowest overall wear numbers in the UOA thread, but the relatively low starting viscosity of 9.4 cSt has me concerned that this won't offer enough protection when towing over hilly terrain as the weather warms. Would also require Lubegard Biotech due to having the typically low moly found in SP formulations. Price has also gone through the roof in comparison to Pennzoil Platinum.

2) Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30 — Viscosity of 10.4 cSt makes it a full point thicker than PUP 5W-30 for better protection when hot or towing. Also contains 174 ppm of Moly and appears to have excellent results as reported in the UOA thread. Rated #1 in wear protection over at 540Ratblog (FWIW). Widely available and a great value.

3) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum SRT 0W-40 — The 0W would be nice for cold starts the remainder of winter here in MI, with the 40-weight viscosity of 13.7 cSt at full temp offering good protection when working the engine hard. I like the 236 ppm of included Moly and the fact that this oil was designed for the HEMI in collaboration with Chrysler, but I dislike the fact that it shears so quickly during use. It's also almost twice the price of QSFS 5W-30.

4) Quaker State Euro 5W-40 (+ Lubegard Biotech) — I like the sound of this for towing, seems like a much more robust blend than PUP SRT 0W-40 as it starts at 12.29 cSt but shears much less during use and has a better overall additive pack. Lacks the 174 ppm of Moly found in QSFS, so I'd have to supplement with Lubegard Biotech. Also half the price of PUP SRT 0W-40.

Right now I'm leaning towards QSFS 5W-30 for my initial OCI as it seems like a nice middle-of-the road weight with a decent moly level and represents the best overall value of those listed. Any insight from the collective hive mind regarding what you guys would do in my situation would be much appreciated!

Edit: Added links to source of listed specs

 

[Burla]

It is a good choice for you, I'm not sure that is the correct moly level but it might be, I'd just double check. It does look like qs kept good moly for that, well over 100ppm I see. 2 most recent uoa's have moly at 140ush mark, more then good.

 

[Travis8352]

PdsDetailsPage

Mobil 1™ FS 5W-30 European Car Formula is an advanced full synthetic motor oil engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance.

www.mobil.com

New mobil 1 product!!! It passes API SP engine test requirements so its good for lspi, its full saps so being a 5w30 its API SL! Gtl based and thick for a 30wt. A perfect for the GDIs we also have in our lives and a cheap quality option for a hemi!

 

[Burla]

PdsDetailsPage

Mobil 1™ FS 5W-30 European Car Formula is an advanced full synthetic motor oil engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance.

www.mobil.com

New mobil 1 product!!! It passes API SP engine test requirements so its good for lspi, its full saps so being a 5w30 its API SL! Gtl based and thick for a 30wt. A perfect for the GDIs we also have in our lives and a cheap quality option for a hemi!

wow right, looks good I would like to see moly count and additive package. No Porsche spec I haven't kept up does Porsche stay with 0w30's mostly? You would think they would spec it, but the vw spec is likely just as good and has merc as well. Did the Europeans go away from climate change viscosities? lol very impressed I must say.

 

[Travis8352]

wow right, looks good I would like to see moly count and additive package. No Porsche spec I haven't kept up does Porsche stay with 0w30's mostly? You would think they would spec it, but the vw spec is likely just as good and has merc as well. Did the Europeans go away from climate change viscosities? lol very impressed I must say.

Porsche does but only with mid saps c30 spec so this has to much zddp for that. Moly, boron, and zddp should be the same as the 0w40 euro but calcium and magnesium is the question for me. I might send this stuff in for a VOA if I can find it locally

 

[danielmid]

I'm trying to select an oil formulation for my new-to-me 5.7L HEMI, and have been poring over this, the Used Oil Analysis thread, and BITOG for the better part of the weekend. My truck has 208K miles with an unknown oil use history, so my goal with the first drain-and-fill is primarily to get a quality 5W-30 synthetic in it along with a Fram XG2 filter so I'm dealing with a known quantity as I gauge initial engine health and performance.

I'll probably run this fill for around 2-3K miles before draining it and sending it in for a UOA. It's still cold here in Michigan, but I do expect to be doing some towing (5,000 lb.) over some semi hilly terrain this spring and early summer on this OCI. With this in mind, I'm trying to select an oil for my initial drain-and-fill:

1) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-30 (+ Lubegard Biotech) — Seems to result in the lowest overall wear numbers in the UOA thread, but the relatively low starting viscosity of 9.4 cSt has me concerned that this won't offer enough protection when towing over hilly terrain as the weather warms. Would also require Lubegard Biotech due to having the typically low moly found in SP formulations. Price has also gone through the roof in comparison to Pennzoil Platinum.

2) Quaker State Full Synthetic 5W-30 — Viscosity of 10.4 cSt makes it a full point thicker than PUP 5W-30 for better protection when hot or towing. Also contains 174 ppm of Moly and appears to have excellent results reported in the UOA thread. Rated #1 in wear protection over at 540Ratblog (FWIW). Widely available and a great value.

3) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum SRT 0W-40 — The 0W would be nice for cold starts the remainder of winter here in MI, with the 40-weight viscosity of 12.2 cSt at full temp offering good protection when working the engine hard. I like the 236 ppm of included Moly and the fact that this oil was designed for the HEMI in collaboration with Chrysler, but I dislike the fact that it shears so quickly during use. It's also almost twice the price of QSFS 5W-30.

4) Quaker State Euro 5W-40 (+ Lubegard Biotech) — I like the sound of this for towing, seems like a much more robust blend than PUP SRT 0W-40 as it starts at 12.29 cSt but shears much less during use and has a better overall additive pack. Lacks the 174 ppm of Moly found in QSFS, so I'd have to supplement with Lubegard Biotech. Also half the price of PUP SRT 0W-40.

Right now I'm leaning towards QSFS 5W-30 for my initial OCI as it seems like a nice middle-of-the road weight with a decent moly level and represents the best overall value of those listed. Any insight from the collective hive mind regarding what you guys would do in my situation would be much appreciated!

For #1, I ran for years with PUP 5w-30 without the Lubeguard and towed a 5k-ish pound camper regularly, up and out of Phoenix in triple digits and have the Blackstone reports to say it was fine even after 8k plus miles. Could moly be better? Sure, but TBN and Vis were always right in place. I think your number 9.4 cSt is low, mine were always above that even at the end of oil life (my last was 10.48 at 9.6k miles, before that was 10.73 at 9.3k miles). Moly for both of those samples was 86, fwiw.

 

[schwartzy18510]

For #1, I ran for years with PUP 5w-30 without the Lubeguard and towed a 5k-ish pound camper regularly, up and out of Phoenix in triple digits and have the Blackstone reports to say it was fine even after 8k plus miles. Could moly be better? Sure, but TBN and Vis were always right in place. I think your number 9.4 cSt is low, mine were always above that even at the end of oil life (my last was 10.48 at 9.6k miles, before that was 10.73 at 9.3k miles). Moly for both of those samples was 86, fwiw.

Really appreciate the feedback on your experience with PUP 5W-30. I pulled the starting viscosity of 9.4 cSt @ 100° C. that I referenced earlier from a recent VOA of the PUP 5W-30 (API SP) that I found over at BITOG. I just double-checked the Technical Data Sheet currently posted on Pennzoil's website, they list it at 10.3 cSt for API SP.

I wonder if viscosity was changed significantly from the old API SN formula. I went back through my compiled notes, I show @crazykid1994's UOA posted in the Blackstone Oil Analysis thread about a year ago indicated his PUP 5W-30 was at 9.64 cSt after just 3,000 miles.

Update — Looks like @HEMIMANN reported in the same Blackstone thread that PUP 5W-30 viscosity apparently changed from API SN to SN+/SP. His VOA dated 4/28/21 showed PUP 5W-30 (API SN+) flirting with 5W-20 territory at just 9.50 cSt.

I'm finding that these changes in oil composition that accompany each shift from one API grade to the next really makes it difficult to sift through all of the compiled body of evidence regarding what oils and formulations work well in the HEMI engines.