Synthetic Oil

[Wild one]

Like I said, maybe instead of saying I use motorkote, say I used a chlorinated paraffin. CP's do WHAT you say they do, yes I believe it, I believe that film can let a engine run longer with no oil, and even better yet reduce friction with oil. Doesnt matter if it is morokote or prolong or the other ones that went out of business. That for me isnt the question, the question is at what cost, which apparently you dont have any interest in even hearing. White paper is everywhere on the net with this, just a summary of what you will find here.

It might be guys with hemi tick that other things wont work at, might work with CP's, they are this good. Might kill the impossible to kill hemi tick as this CP coats better then all the stuff talked about in this thread. In fact check the graph, nothing reduces friction like CP's and this from Castrol, yeah no joke castrol. Kudos to castrol, that was some very impressive paper!

The bottom line is CI, your chlorine additive or CP, and look how good it is at battling friction! lowest coefficient of friction then anything, plus it is a film so that plate can allow an engine run with no oil, to a point we all agree? CI by itself or mixed with esters, both the best at battling friction bar none, that is as good as it gets.

View attachment 538658


So there it is in black and white why CP's are so popular, but as with everything we discuss here there are good and bad to everything. Esters and PAO both required to be balanced to avoid seal issues, powdered moly in suspension can gum up, ceramics need 700f to bond, vii's degrade and cause varnish, too much zinc gums cats, too much CA cause LSPI, yada yada yada. You seam to think there is no downside to CP products, or no potential for corrosion. It is science, those products have a large % of Chlorine, read what castrol says about it. Instead of being so defensive, try this on, try thanking us for giving you a complete picture of the product you use. Get a uoa, it might help you.

Damn it Mike,you've ruined my evening,i'm up bearing failures and trouble shooting ,with a pile more reading to do,lol.
One thing that did intrigue me was the amount oil degrades when it's above 150F.Makes me feel better with trying to keep my oil temps under 200F

 

[marine0311]

Thank you. Everything looks so good on paper. You guys are so knowledgeable with scientific research. Today’s engines, I would no way shape or form even attempt even idling with zero oil pressure. Engines and trucks were different 20+ years ago. Tailgates only opened and you could slam them shut. Now tailgates seem to be made to even dance if you want them too as an example of how much things have changed.
If I called you a liar, or even asking questions almost to the point of asking if you’ve been circumcised, how would you handle that?? Even producing every evidence on paper, even videos to prove otherwise?
When you know what you done did do happened.
Even being accused of being in cahoots with Motorkote. When you yourself are doing the same thing by saying this product works better.
This said product has its own issues, how minuscule they are. We will overlook that, while Motorkote has chlorine in it. It’s the evil of lubricants.
It’s not being defensive when I tell you to pi$$ off. Nothing you say will make me change my mind. And as I said earlier if you hate so much what I use in MY engine. Than save me from the evil Motorkote. Send me a case of your products that YOU run in your vehicle. Put all that scientific research crap aside and put your money where your mouth is.
I will probably be waiting until you know where freezes over.. Put up or shut up. It’s that simple..
I almost forgot to tell you I also ran Amsoil products in my trucks at the time. I sent them all my info as I was using their products. Amsoil sent me a couple cases of their products, swag items as well.
Am I going to be accused of working for Amsoil as well?

 

[Burla]

That is kind what this thread is about, dissecting formulas and getting behind the name of a brand. No brand is safe, no brand is w/o downsides. Redline lost a lot of credibility when it sold to 66 and put generic oil in the professional line and sold it at a high markup. That is the kind of thing we discuss. A uoa would show you how your engine is wearing with that in it.

 

[JHoward]

Imo, @Burla posted informative comparisons and differences between oil additives that have chlorinated paraffin and oils that have molybdenum/esters and what could be the more essential benefit of long term use, say for the GEN3 HEMI engine.

I value everyone's information about the subject of motor oils and additives and use that for what it's worth.

And, with that, I've used an oil strategy that will, hopefully, protect and keep the cam/lifter gremlin(s) away.

 

[Burla]

To dissect the graph a little. The reason for the need of any additive is on the first line, you see with temp how oil by itself falls off the graph in relationship to friction. And note that eventually everything fails on the tempature range. Without looking I'm guessing the 4 elements are esters, CP's, Phos and Sulfur.

Now, it doesnt have elemental phos and sulfur listed, as in moly with sulfur and zddp with phos. CP's by themselves fail first as you see the line CI, but have low friction even in a cold sump. The only thing better in a cold sump is a combo with CP's. I will never forget when I added prolong to my bronco, it was raging and smooth, and yesterday was when I found out why. So I thank Marine for making me look into this. Those temperatures also tell a story, what difference does it make when the temperatures we see are not close to when those fail. It just shows how good those additives are at killing friction as opposed to being of actual value in an engine. But besides tempature, branch chain additives also fail from mechanical shearing. Now, if that additive minimizes mechanical shearing, wouldnt that also suggest less mechanical shearing of those chains happen in that engine? Perhaps. Also, elemental sulfur and phos as in moly and zddp also protect engines with a cold sump, in fact that is their main function, you have formed a plate on a dry sump which is also a cold sump cold as in any temperature less then operating temp.

Maybe I will have to look at that castrol post and see if there is something else we should pull out and dissect. For now this puts CP's to bed for me, great at what they do with potential issues. Those are not my thoughts, but castrols, read them if you please.


.

 

[JHoward]

Thank you. Everything looks so good on paper. You guys are so knowledgeable with scientific research. Today’s engines, I would no way shape or form even attempt even idling with zero oil pressure. Engines and trucks were different 20+ years ago. Tailgates only opened and you could slam them shut. Now tailgates seem to be made to even dance if you want them too as an example of how much things have changed.
If I called you a liar, or even asking questions almost to the point of asking if you’ve been circumcised, how would you handle that?? Even producing every evidence on paper, even videos to prove otherwise?
When you know what you done did do happened.
Even being accused of being in cahoots with Motorkote. When you yourself are doing the same thing by saying this product works better.
This said product has its own issues, how minuscule they are. We will overlook that, while Motorkote has chlorine in it. It’s the evil of lubricants.
It’s not being defensive when I tell you to pi$$ off. Nothing you say will make me change my mind. And as I said earlier if you hate so much what I use in MY engine. Than save me from the evil Motorkote. Send me a case of your products that YOU run in your vehicle. Put all that scientific research crap aside and put your money where your mouth is.
I will probably be waiting until you know where freezes over.. Put up or shut up. It’s that simple..
I almost forgot to tell you I also ran Amsoil products in my trucks at the time. I sent them all my info as I was using their products. Amsoil sent me a couple cases of their products, swag items as well.
Am I going to be accused of working for Amsoil as well?

I wouldn't call anyone a lier, maybe, if anything, say they were admittedly defensive about something.

Everyone is different ... some can walk on water, most cannot ... just kidding.

Anyway, happy motoring and hammer down!

 

[Wild one]

Thank you. Everything looks so good on paper. You guys are so knowledgeable with scientific research. Today’s engines, I would no way shape or form even attempt even idling with zero oil pressure. Engines and trucks were different 20+ years ago. Tailgates only opened and you could slam them shut. Now tailgates seem to be made to even dance if you want them too as an example of how much things have changed.
If I called you a liar, or even asking questions almost to the point of asking if you’ve been circumcised, how would you handle that?? Even producing every evidence on paper, even videos to prove otherwise?
When you know what you done did do happened.
Even being accused of being in cahoots with Motorkote. When you yourself are doing the same thing by saying this product works better.
This said product has its own issues, how minuscule they are. We will overlook that, while Motorkote has chlorine in it. It’s the evil of lubricants.
It’s not being defensive when I tell you to pi$$ off. Nothing you say will make me change my mind. And as I said earlier if you hate so much what I use in MY engine. Than save me from the evil Motorkote. Send me a case of your products that YOU run in your vehicle. Put all that scientific research crap aside and put your money where your mouth is.
I will probably be waiting until you know where freezes over.. Put up or shut up. It’s that simple..
I almost forgot to tell you I also ran Amsoil products in my trucks at the time. I sent them all my info as I was using their products. Amsoil sent me a couple cases of their products, swag items as well.
Am I going to be accused of working for Amsoil as well?

You still haven't told us if anybody actually stuck a master / mechanical oil pressure gauge on it.I'm guessing that never happened,so who knows if it was still generating oil pressure or not. How loud was the engine?

 

[Burla]

Ut OH, as in big Ut OH

If you thought running techron will be just as good as redline si-1, lol. This is great.

ut oh boroscope pics reldine versus techron

 

[Jonnyquest69]

One of my best friends is a chemist and used to work at Amsoil. One of his jobs was to test competitor's oils and compare it to their own. Bottom line was that all fully synthetics are far superior to non-synthetics and when it comes to the best synthetic? They are all very close. But he personally uses Mobil 1 - something to do with extra anti-wear additives. This was many years ago, so maybe other brands have caught up or gotten even better. But I've used it for over 30 years and run my vehicles well over 200k in hot summers and very cold winters (-20F). Never had an engine issue due to poor oil performance.

 

[Burla]

That may be the best thread I ever seen on the net, wow syn thread putting out some goodies lately.

 

[J-13GTP]

Sorry in advance if its been talked about before.
I'm going to be towing some heavy stuff pretty soon so I want to change my oil. I thought about using Rotella T6 5W-40. All my research has kinda come up with differing opinions. Any one want to chime in? The truck has 190k with a new HV oil pump if that matters.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Ut OH, as in big Ut OH

If you thought running techron will be just as good as redline si-1, lol. This is great.

ut oh boroscope pics reldine versus techron

Told ya Chevron, the creator of PEA, switched to cheaper, ineffective butedol (?).

Frickin cheap corporate bean counters.

 

[Burla]

Sorry in advance if its been talked about before.
I'm going to be towing some heavy stuff pretty soon so I want to change my oil. I thought about using Rotella T6 5W-40. All my research has kinda come up with differing opinions. Any one want to chime in? The truck has 190k with a new HV oil pump if that matters.

HD 5w40 is a good choice, whether rotella is tops is another issue. Since HD oils went to ck-4, lesser oils put forth better effort additive packages then rotella. See pqia and HD oils for comparison, see delo, rotella, delvac, and valvoline for comparisons. But yeah HD 5w40 I'd use that in your case.

 

[Burla]

Told ya Chevron, the creator of PEA, switched to cheaper, ineffective butedol (?).

Frickin cheap corporate bean counters.

I forget the time line, before or after you bought a case of it.

I think I mentioned a issue with their sds long long time ago. They went away from saying the % of PEA and redline and amsoil pi posted the highest. However, they still use pea in techron. I am also wondering if having a base oil carrier is proven more effective, we know certain base oils can clean all by themselves as in esters, so maybe their is more then PEA % at play. Maybe PEA brought in a carrier oil can also clean better then whatever techron uses as techron clearly isnt the same oil carrier. Dunno to the why, but I can see the results.

 

[J-13GTP]

HD 5w40 is a good choice, whether rotella is tops is another issue. Since HD oils went to ck-4, lesser oils put forth better effort additive packages then rotella. See pqia and HD oils for comparison, see delo, rotella, delvac, and valvoline for comparisons. But yeah HD 5w40 I'd use that in your case.

Thanks for the help. I'm actually going to add Lubegrad since I have it.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I forget the time line, before or after you bought a case of it.

I think I mentioned a issue with their sds long long time ago. They went away from saying the % of PEA and redline and amsoil pi posted the highest. However, they still use pea in techron. I am also wondering if having a base oil carrier is proven more effective, we know certain base oils can clean all by themselves as in esters, so maybe their is more then PEA % at play. Maybe PEA brought in a carrier oil can also clean better then whatever techron uses as techron clearly isnt the same oil carrier. Dunno to the why, but I can see the results.

Why afterward, of course. So I used up the expensive gasoline filler then got the actual PEA Red Line PL-1 and carry around with me if I have to fuel outside of one of the few Top Tier gas stations left around here on the edge of civilization.

I could find no evidence Techron has any PEA anymore, but find evidence they switched to the cheaper Buta whatever that isn't effective.
My corporate tea leaf read is the PEA patent ran out so they switched to mass market crap and kept the same marketing name and charged the same price as for PEA.

Not deceitful at all or anything. I wrote up a whole rant about it when I researched after a major gas brand dropped Top Tier up here. I should move somewhere civilized.

 

[Burla]

You know what I find particularly troubling??

All of the engines that use gas, most likely top tier gas?, have this carbon. Even when techron in a bottle is used to "boost" detergent level, yup still carbon. It takes something like si-1 to melt it away.

Food for thought, yet again thanks to the incredible test I learned something new. As if I wasnt sold on si-1 before, now it is religion with me, lol. The fact they used techron for comparison, this is a sad day for people who just think top tier means isht??

 

[Burla]

Week in summary, Chlorine is not just for pools, redline si-1 is even better then we thought, and no oil is the new oil.

 

[Yardbird]

Week in summary, Chlorine is not just for pools, redline si-1 is even better then we thought, and no oil is the new oil.

And this will bring a worn engine back to life........Used to use it a lot, with anecdotal proof from my eyes and gas pedal foot. Now, let the flaming begin...lol

 

[Burla]

And this will bring a worn engine back to life........Used to use it a lot, with anecdotal proof from my eyes and gas pedal foot. Now, let the flaming begin...lol

View attachment 538673

flaming? You been here a minute, so time to sell us on it more then a picture, peal apart the onion a bit. Restorers usually do work, but the how and why and risks are what we do here, I will try and find sds.

sds here pdf