The future looks pretty sad.

[Goose55]

Yup. I agree. Hydrogen is the ticket. Cummins, I've heard, is very involved in hydrogen manufacturing technology.

 

[RamDiver]

You sound like a right wing radio hoste or one of the "true believers".

EV is the future. And it is a boon for 95 percent of the people who own trucks. They deliver more power and more towing capacity that gas or deisel. The only donw side is distance, which is only a very small percentage of drivers. For the rest it means no more time at a gas station. No more oil changes. No more transmisssion problems. No more emission testing or replacing emision equipment.

As far as infrastructure, the same complaints were voiced when they invented the refrigerator. And again when they invented the air conditioner, again with the home personal computer. A dirty little secreat. Most power companies are "for profit" enterprises. Guess what happens when demand goes up with a company supplying a product? It is suddenly more appealing to invest in building more widgets. The higher demand goes, the more widgets they make. It is how "for profit" companies survive.

As far as electrical fires, i promise you, most of them are because of poor or non existant building codes and resulted from **** poor electrical work in whatever state has the problem. Take Texas, where i live for example. It is legal to wire a house with romex and no protective cover like conduit. It is also legal to use a PLASTIC or PVC junction box. Guess why it is not legal in most states? House fires maybe because the plastic melts when the wires get hot? Perfectly legal in Texas, unlike Florida where a store can not even sell a plastic or PVC junction box. It is also legal to use a 3 pair wire for a 220 power supply by using both the black and white wires as loads and the green wire as the common. Sounds stupid? It is. But you want to blame an electrical fire on the appliance? Also stupid.

As far as putting the oil industry out of bussiness, it might surprise you gas only makes up about 10 to 15 percent of oil company products. It is in everything plastic and rubber, including plastic junction boxes in Texas. Fuel for automobiles is not going to sink an oil company, but i promise you they will scream ****** murder for loosing that 10 to 15 percent. You will think they are dying.

There is no good reason for not using electric on transportation. Most city busses are disele electric. Same with trains and cruise ships. The smart people in the room already understand that. So why the outcry? Because the less than smart people in the room get their "facts" from politically inspired entertainment media that is paid for by big oil instead of using their heads and doing a little research like we were taught to do in school.

America is going electric. It will save the average car owner hundreds if not thousands of dollars in fuel and maintenance. It makes good sense for people who do the math.

EVs may in fact be the future but not powered by Lithium batteries. I think maybe you're one of those dreamers with tunnel vision.

EVs are being pushed onto society as a green solution which is absolutely preposterous if you have the first clue about Lithium battery production, manufacture, and disposal.

Yes, disposal, because there is no financially reasonable method to recycle them while we're filling up the earth with more pollution for our children's children to solve.

How is that a responsible existence? WTF!

.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Yup. I agree. Hydrogen is the ticket. Cummins, I've heard, is very involved in hydrogen manufacturing technology.

Not for the US. Hydrogen isn't a power source, it's basically a chemical battery. The manufacturing process is energy negative, more goes in than comes out.

Repost from an older thread on the topic: https://www.ramforum.com/threads/thoughts-on-hydrogen-power.186911/

It probably makes more sense for the Japanese market then many others. The Japanese gov't is spending significant amounts of money to expand the retail level hydrogen infrastructure, as well as subsidize purchases of the vehicles. Given the relatively small geographical footprint and population density of Japan it's much easier to roll out that infrastructure to a large enough percentage of the population to an impactful level.

On the supply/production side Japan already imports an enormous amount of LNG, which is one of the easier sources of hydrogen. That's an advantage in that they already have all that infrastructure in place.

I don't know that it makes as much sense in a nation like US or Canada where the population is much more spread out and refining capacity is more geared toward other products.

 

[Jebb]

Kind of on an Ev rant today, it's the biggest environmental scam yet....

So I'm curious with this push in EVs what's going to snub it out first? Big oil or insurance companies refusing to insure the spontaneously Combusting cars?

https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=Electric+car+fire

Imagine driving down the road in your electric car, you get into an accident and are knocked out, your battery goes into thermal runaway and we'll... youll probly get the rest of the story at the bbq lol.

Personally I can't see spending that much money on a vehicle that is going to have a hard time traveling 500km. In the cold you'd be lucky to get 300km at - 40.
You have to take into account the heating factor and the battery heating factor (cold batteries die fast) its been proven EVs don't like to take a charge in the cold so what do you even do in the winter? A 45 min drive, one way, would likely take half your battery at - 30°c

Plus there's the charger fires and just general finding a charge station. I Beleive there are 8 charge stations in my whole territory/state. The whole place is powered by diesel generators all winter so, does this not make your car the most Ineffecient diesel car out there? Lol

Here are a few more comical Ev videos. Definately seeing more bad than good out of these. Personally the ice will never die and hydrogen is a more reliable future. You can even make it at home, And a fuel up isn't going to take you 6 hours charging to drive 3 hrs.

Ev in Canada

Real World Range Test Of Ford Lightning Winter Nothern Ontario Canada

I decided to visit my buddy in Fort Francis with my F150 Lightning from Kakabeka Falls. Distance one way is roughly 320klm. I set the cruise at 100kph and cl...

youtu.be

Ev burns house down

New Zealand (Cooks Beach) Fire: Media claims "EV not to blame" | MGUY Australia

MGUY has exclusive video of the early stages of the fire which contradicts the media position that the fire started "at the rear" of the building...You can t...

youtu.be

Ev batteries catch fire on ship

Lithium-ion battery fire on cargo ship off Alaska finally extinguished

The blaze burned in the cargo ship’s hold from Thursday to Sunday

www.independent.co.uk

What do we do with These batteries that spontaneously catch fire? The vehicle waste? How much pollution is caused by these things when they go up.

Even wind turbines aren't environmentally friendly.

Out of Sight: What to Do With Germany’s 1.35 Million Tonnes of Toxic Wind Turbine Blades?

The rush to an all wind and sun powered future has left Germans sensing the kind of regret that comes with youthful exuberance – something about acting in haste and repenting at leisure sprin…

stopthesethings.com

Green energy isn't so fine and dandy when it's time to clean it up. Anyways my rant over, hopefully others can fire some of this ammunition as well.

GRETA is unavailable for comments at this time....

#1) Stop watching Fox news

#2) Did you forget about the Ford Pinto, the Volkswagen Beetle and the Karmann Ghia? ALL of these gasoline-powered vehicles were notorious for catching on fire. And what about the "double bottom" gasoline tankers that were outlawed in several states (like Michigan) after numerous fiery crashes that killed people?

#3) How many gasoline stations existed when the first gasoline cars came to market? And how far could those cars go on a tank of gas?

#4) Hydrogen is a great fuel for certain applications. But unless it can be generated in high volumes on demand it too has to be stored somewhere. Recall the Hindenburg - or the numerous LOX/Hydrogen-powered rockets that exploded on liftoff? NO high energy source is 100% safe.

#5) EVs are relatively new technology but have taken HUGE strides in a short amount of time. The next 10-20 years will be incredible.

#6) It's easy to be an armchair critic. If you have better ideas get some patents and take them to market. I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Burla]

You sound like a right wing radio hoste or one of the "true believers".

EV is the future. And it is a boon for 95 percent of the people who own trucks. They deliver more power and more towing capacity that gas or deisel. The only donw side is distance, which is only a very small percentage of drivers. For the rest it means no more time at a gas station. No more oil changes. No more transmisssion problems. No more emission testing or replacing emision equipment.

As far as infrastructure, the same complaints were voiced when they invented the refrigerator. And again when they invented the air conditioner, again with the home personal computer. A dirty little secreat. Most power companies are "for profit" enterprises. Guess what happens when demand goes up with a company supplying a product? It is suddenly more appealing to invest in building more widgets. The higher demand goes, the more widgets they make. It is how "for profit" companies survive.

As far as electrical fires, i promise you, most of them are because of poor or non existant building codes and resulted from **** poor electrical work in whatever state has the problem. Take Texas, where i live for example. It is legal to wire a house with romex and no protective cover like conduit. It is also legal to use a PLASTIC or PVC junction box. Guess why it is not legal in most states? House fires maybe because the plastic melts when the wires get hot? Perfectly legal in Texas, unlike Florida where a store can not even sell a plastic or PVC junction box. It is also legal to use a 3 pair wire for a 220 power supply by using both the black and white wires as loads and the green wire as the common. Sounds stupid? It is. But you want to blame an electrical fire on the appliance? Also stupid.

As far as putting the oil industry out of bussiness, it might surprise you gas only makes up about 10 to 15 percent of oil company products. It is in everything plastic and rubber, including plastic junction boxes in Texas. Fuel for automobiles is not going to sink an oil company, but i promise you they will scream ****** murder for loosing that 10 to 15 percent. You will think they are dying.

There is no good reason for not using electric on transportation. Most city busses are disele electric. Same with trains and cruise ships. The smart people in the room already understand that. So why the outcry? Because the less than smart people in the room get their "facts" from politically inspired entertainment media that is paid for by big oil instead of using their heads and doing a little research like we were taught to do in school.

America is going electric. It will save the average car owner hundreds if not thousands of dollars in fuel and maintenance. It makes good sense for people who do the math.

I appreciate your opinion, so why lesson it with an ad hominem attack?

Looks like another guy attacking fox news, like wth? Like cnn is much better? Again when libs attack someone's character you lesson your argument. That is why in the law ad hominem is a last resort, because you resort to it when you know you lost, common be better. Why not discuss the issue instead of peoples character?

Better you should look at known reserves of crucial metals used in battery production and how many 2k batteries have to be built and co2 it takes to produce those batteries. Hopefully you will participate with facts based retorts rather then questioning someones character.

 

[CaptOchs]

wow

$60,000 to replace battery // 2nd IONIQ 5 case confirms battery price!

This is a Motormouth couple car video discussing the cost to replace the battery in 2022 Hyundai IONIQ 5. A second IONIQ 5 owner in eastern Canada also has ...

www.youtube.com

The batteries need to be designed to be universal. You have a children's toy that runs off a proprietary battery and it would be cheaper to buy a new toy when the battery dies. If that same toy ran off C-batteries then you'd incredibly cheap and you wouldn't bat an eye at replacing them. If you scale that up, golf cart batteries are somewhat universal. Your RAM's 12v battery is pretty universal. You can go to any auto store and have multiple options. For these EVs to work, you have to assure customers their car won't be worth fixing if the battery dies.

 

[Docwagon1776]

America is going electric. It will save the average car owner hundreds if not thousands of dollars in fuel and maintenance. It makes good sense for people who do the math.

I'm just going to pick this because of how unfounded and judgmental it is. My wife wanted a Jeep Wrangler or Bronco. We looked at the Wrangler 4XE. Even with tax subsidy incentive it was significantly more expensive to buy and own than the ICE equivalent.

Regardless of what you consider 'good sense' and 'math skills', EVs won't save you money. The money you save in fuel and routine preventative maintenance is more than eaten up by differences in insurance and depreciation for the vast majority of users. I'm sure there are outliers, but you're saying some 95% will benefit. No.

https://www.nada.org/nada/nada-headlines/beyond-sticker-price-cost-ownership-evs-v-ice-vehicles as an example.

Our fleet experimented with EVs and abandoned them as the savings never materialized, we returned them at the end of the lease, luckily, or we'd have taken more of a bath.

If you want to save money, buy a smaller ICE vehicle.

 

[Burla]

JD power from this year, only 1% vehicles sold are EV and consider most manu's are already backing off their EV programs. Like the title says, EV future not looking bright.

 

[Burla]

The batteries need to be designed to be universal. You have a children's toy that runs off a proprietary battery and it would be cheaper to buy a new toy when the battery dies. If that same toy ran off C-batteries then you'd incredibly cheap and you wouldn't bat an eye at replacing them. If you scale that up, golf cart batteries are somewhat universal. Your RAM's 12v battery is pretty universal. You can go to any auto store and have multiple options. For these EVs to work, you have to assure customers their car won't be worth fixing if the battery dies.

I agree, but good luck with that. And something will need to be done to include trucks. I feel the same way about computer plug ins, lol. Battery replacement costs vary horribly, some 3k and some hybrid 24k plus. It's crazy. Once a car is discoed, battery replacement through the roof.

 

[TC Retired]

You guy's are worrying about nuthin... My 5kw solar is producing 9w so far today. And this is in sunny AZ. Produced 33wh yesterday with the snow flying. Yep you read that number right -- it ain't got no k in that result...

They are way out in front of their ski's. Maybe someday, but I agree that Hydrogen is going to be a much better fuel in the long run. Also, we need to explore

Thorium​

for long term electric production.

 

[Docwagon1776]

#1) Stop watching Fox news

#2) Did you forget about the Ford Pinto, the Volkswagen Beetle and the Karmann Ghia? ALL of these gasoline-powered vehicles were notorious for catching on fire. And what about the "double bottom" gasoline tankers that were outlawed in several states (like Michigan) after numerous fiery crashes that killed people?

#3) How many gasoline stations existed when the first gasoline cars came to market? And how far could those cars go on a tank of gas?

#4) Hydrogen is a great fuel for certain applications. But unless it can be generated in high volumes on demand it too has to be stored somewhere. Recall the Hindenburg - or the numerous LOX/Hydrogen-powered rockets that exploded on liftoff? NO high energy source is 100% safe.

#5) EVs are relatively new technology but have taken HUGE strides in a short amount of time. The next 10-20 years will be incredible.

#6) It's easy to be an armchair critic. If you have better ideas get some patents and take them to market. I'm looking forward to it.

Not the OP, but:
#1) I don't. 24H news cycle, then the internet, made manufacturing news a bajillion dollar industry.
#2) Nope. Gas sets fire as well. It's just easier to deal with when it does. May not be much consolation to the occupants, but first responders and tow truck operators appreciate the difference.
#3) Jerry cans exist. What's the EV equivalent?
#4) Agreed
#5) Tentatively agree.
#6) Smarter people than me will figure it out, and if #5 pans out maybe I'll benefit. But that's irrelevant to me as a consumer today. I've no interest in buying the Model T version if it doesn't suit my needs and costs me more.

 

[Docwagon1776]

The batteries need to be designed to be universal.

Only way you'd get that done is via gov't mandate. Like Apple going to a non-proprietary charging cable because the EU made them. It goes against the profit motive to give up a monopoly on supply.

 

[Burla]

Since the poor have zero chance to afford any of this, my hopes they all with get some free ev's and a pot of rainbow stew. Hopefully EV doesnt increase the cost of the poor having access to a decent life, like we all had growing up. The sadest part of this, companies get the rebates and the poor dont, not that they can buy them anyhow, but if they could you wont get the rebate the corps do.

Mind you the two reasons there isnt a tesla in my driveway, I am on 100% electric property I have no more fuses for charger, plus we would get zero on that 8k rebate.

 

[Burla]

Gotta love this???

Mind you this is NASA.

Is NSIDC part of NASA?
The NSIDC DAAC is one of twelve Distributed Active Archive Centers (DAACs) in NASA's Earth Science Data and Information System Project (ESDIS).

The end of 2023 had above average sea ice growth, bringing the daily extent within the interdecile range, the range spanning 90 percent of past sea ice extents for the date. Rapid expansion of ice in the Chukchi and Bering Seas and across Hudson Bay was responsible. The Antarctic summer sea ice decline slowed, moving the daily ice extent values above previous record low levels. For the year as a whole, however, low Antarctic sea ice was the dominant feature.

So you guys have to appreciate this, the ice sheet is growing despite record carbon burning thanks to well you know the countries look it up. When the world actually burned a lot less carbon during corona, ice sheet shrunk, when the economy is in full force, the ice sheet is growing. So question, why wouldnt carbon burning based in fact actually be responsible for the ice growing?

You have to love the last part, but low sea ice is still a dominate feature, lol?? OK, but how can that be related to carbon since we are burning more and the ice is growing?

The fact is it is a hoax, just like the polar bear's dying because of car emissions was a hoax, as it turns out polar bears were over hunted because of indigenous having benefit of vehicles and gun powder, and once they limited the hunt, boom polar bears completely made a come back. I give nasa a lot of credit, thanks for telling us the truth, I appreciate it. As posted over the last billion years we are at historical low carbon and furthermore there is no correlation between co2 and global temperature. Just the facts for my ram brothers, nothing less.

 

[tron67j]

Full disclosure, a fully battery powered EV will never be in my garage.

But not sure the future of them is sad but rather different. Will they be just battery, or have some on board power generating device to make them (maybe) even more usable than ICE vehicles? Will charging infrastructure be exponentially built out or will there be a different way we power personal transportation? These are all questions we need to watch the answers develop.

Not sure about standardization as I can't really buy many parts anymore that work on a Chevy, Ford, and Ram. I don't think mandating such a path works, let manufacturers try things and in the end one general solution will achieve dominance when such makes sense (USB-C does because data transfer can be accomplished, but mandating which side gas fill openings are on doesn't). My two cents, swappable battery packs could be a better solution but the point can obviously be argued both ways.

Where we have problems - we want big bulky boxes that are often not used other than to get from point a to point b; we want EVs with 14 batteries that go 0 to 88 mph so fast that we will miss our back in time target date; a repair/build contractor can't use the same conveyance that inner-city Lyft driver needs; and we want what we want. So again, the future will be different and just hope it allows kids to have as much fun as we did pushing our truck to the gas station and strapping our broken muffler to the frame. Yeah, I actually miss those days.

 

[Hemi395]

#1) Stop watching Fox news

#2) Did you forget about the Ford Pinto, the Volkswagen Beetle and the Karmann Ghia? ALL of these gasoline-powered vehicles were notorious for catching on fire. And what about the "double bottom" gasoline tankers that were outlawed in several states (like Michigan) after numerous fiery crashes that killed people?

#3) How many gasoline stations existed when the first gasoline cars came to market? And how far could those cars go on a tank of gas?

#4) Hydrogen is a great fuel for certain applications. But unless it can be generated in high volumes on demand it too has to be stored somewhere. Recall the Hindenburg - or the numerous LOX/Hydrogen-powered rockets that exploded on liftoff? NO high energy source is 100% safe.

#5) EVs are relatively new technology but have taken HUGE strides in a short amount of time. The next 10-20 years will be incredible.

#6) It's easy to be an armchair critic. If you have better ideas get some patents and take them to market. I'm looking forward to it.

1. Were not, just stepping back and looking at things using common sense.

2. Nope didn't forget about this, in fact Uncle Tony just put out a video comparing this to EV fires and how EV fires are way worse. Think electric school busses that catch fire spontaneously with your children on it. I don't believe that ever happened with a Pinto.

The Exploding Ford Pinto Scandal Was NOTHING Compared To What's Happening Today - Busses Go Boom

We've talked about burning and exploding Electric Vehicles before, but these bus video clips are something every single parent on the planet needs to see, bu...

youtu.be

3. It still didn't take hours to fill up those early vehicles.

4. Personally I think ethanol is a good alternative since most modern cars can be converted to run on it with little modification. And it's renenable.

5. Explain these "HUGE" strides. They still have limited range and take hours and hours to recharge.

6. Yes it is easy, especially if you just accept what you're told and don't step back to look at the facts. Totally agree.

 

[Brandon-w]

#1) Stop watching Fox news

#2) Did you forget about the Ford Pinto, the Volkswagen Beetle and the Karmann Ghia? ALL of these gasoline-powered vehicles were notorious for catching on fire. And what about the "double bottom" gasoline tankers that were outlawed in several states (like Michigan) after numerous fiery crashes that killed people?

#3) How many gasoline stations existed when the first gasoline cars came to market? And how far could those cars go on a tank of gas?

#4) Hydrogen is a great fuel for certain applications. But unless it can be generated in high volumes on demand it too has to be stored somewhere. Recall the Hindenburg - or the numerous LOX/Hydrogen-powered rockets that exploded on liftoff? NO high energy source is 100% safe.

#5) EVs are relatively new technology but have taken HUGE strides in a short amount of time. The next 10-20 years will be incredible.

#6) It's easy to be an armchair critic. If you have better ideas get some patents and take them to market. I'm looking forward to it.

Hey guys looks like we have a mask wearer in our midst! Guess he never got the new Government updates haha!

I will say though this has NOTHING to do with the news, this is common sense. I've pulled minerals out of the ground to build all sosts of things and it's no way effecient. Take a 2 million dollar truck and burn 500 gallons every 12 hrs (if you're lucky to make it that long) you have $80,000 x6 for tires alone on the unit lol. No matter how you look it the green future Will always have diesel powered roots no matter what!

It's people like You who feel like they can make decisions about my choice of vehicle and what I burn in it and honestly if it Floats your boat sure go for it but for me and my situation you couldn't give me one, up here I'd likely freeze to death in this stupid thing.

Let's just keep batteries where they belong, in kids toys and women's toys
Leave the oil for the big boys.
Ps my bet is the lot if yas are gonna be real mad when insurance says they're no longer covering electric cars due to their risk, then you have a lithium ticking bomb that you can't even drive or sell and ohhhh boy the crying we will have to hear then lmao.

 

[Brandon-w]

I will also say if the gov't cared about the environment instead of controlling its populous there wouldn't be military bases in foreign countries protecting the oil wells and there wouldn't be military planes and ships traveling all over the world emitting millions of dollars worth of exhaust. They don't care about the environment they care about control and sitting down for 3-6hrs ro charge your car instead of 3 minutes of fuel and go should concern you. For me to even go to work in some palces I'd have to sit for 6 hrs charging before I could even get where I had to go.
This is just another form of government control. Don't Beleive me look up the mandates...
The pic is a haha! But honestly imagine how much diesel it took jist to set up each base there... Yeah

 

[Sherman Bird]

You mean stuff people in 15 minute cities like they're in a prison, overload the grid with battery cars and cut down all the trees in the name of the greater good. The people who want us all neutered, eating bugs, living in these special cities, vaccinated for imaginary diseases, they're the ones flying their 2 million dollar jets to go 100km. Then they have the audacity to say we're the root cause not the jet that just burned 300 gallons of fuel instead of 2 gallons. It's a wonderfully green idea for the peasants.

Let's be honest too. If EVs were effective even plausible the government, military and emergency services would already be using them. Right? Not seeing our government's utilizing these should be the red flags for society.

"Hi! We.re from the gummint! And we're hereto Help!!!"

 

[tron67j]

Gotta love this???

Mind you this is NASA.

Is NSIDC part of NASA?
The NSIDC DAAC is one of twelve Distributed Active Archive Centers (DAACs) in NASA's Earth Science Data and Information System Project (ESDIS).

The end of 2023 had above average sea ice growth, bringing the daily extent within the interdecile range, the range spanning 90 percent of past sea ice extents for the date. Rapid expansion of ice in the Chukchi and Bering Seas and across Hudson Bay was responsible. The Antarctic summer sea ice decline slowed, moving the daily ice extent values above previous record low levels. For the year as a whole, however, low Antarctic sea ice was the dominant feature.

So you guys have to appreciate this, the ice sheet is growing despite record carbon burning thanks to well you know the countries look it up. When the world actually burned a lot less carbon during corona, ice sheet shrunk, when the economy is in full force, the ice sheet is growing. So question, why wouldnt carbon burning based in fact actually be responsible for the ice growing?

You have to love the last part, but low sea ice is still a dominate feature, lol?? OK, but how can that be related to carbon since we are burning more and the ice is growing?

The fact is it is a hoax, just like the polar bear's dying because of car emissions was a hoax, as it turns out polar bears were over hunted because of indigenous having benefit of vehicles and gun powder, and once they limited the hunt, boom polar bears completely made a come back. I give nasa a lot of credit, thanks for telling us the truth, I appreciate it. As posted over the last billion years we are at historical low carbon and furthermore there is no correlation between co2 and global temperature. Just the facts for my ram brothers, nothing less.

Some food for thought above and in other posts. There is too much data on all fronts to have a deeply involved conversation in a forum dedicated to our awesome trucks.

One other data point that is available for study is that the amount of old ice (that which is 4 years old and older) has decreased from the mid 30% range in the 80's to less than 5% now. How concerning that is, well that is open for debate. Why is it happening, another too-complicated subject for here. But it is clear that as old ice and snow melt and expose more surface, more contaminates currently trapped can be expelled into the atmosphere. Is that really, really bad? Just bad, mildly concerning? I would hazard a guess it isn't the best thing to ever happen.

I share this not to take an opposite stance but to reinforce that the data is far too comprehensive.

But eventually the costs to extract fossil fuels will exceed what we are willing to pay for a gallon of gas, and whenever that is I hope all the churn now prepares us and posterity for success in that future whatever it is.