Thoughts on Hydrogen power

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

PoMansRam

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2018
Posts
2,089
Reaction score
2,555
Location
East Aurora NY
Ram Year
2019
Engine
Hemi
Hydrogen or any of the other current alternatives to oil is decades into the future. By the time it takes to change over to hydrogen or anything else, I believe there will new technologies available that beat them all in cost.

I hear you. All I can add is where I work, we've been trucking H2 out as fast as we can make it since 1980. The "fuel of the future" propaganda music playing in the background the whole 42yrs.

Anything is possible. It all boils down to cost. Even at the current ~$4.50/gal gasoline. That's cheap compared to owning and operating an H2 fuel cell powered E-vehicle.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
23,714
Reaction score
54,457
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
Not my post,i just copied it,but there's some good info it.


"Please read... you and your Teslas! 1f926_200d_2642.png
Batteries, do not make electricity – they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.
Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?"
Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the storage device, like a gas tank in a car.
There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.
Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all batteries be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.
All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.
In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly.
But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive production costs.
A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just - one - battery."
Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?"
I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not. This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.
The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.
Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades.
There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions.
"Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure."
 

BWL

Embrace the skeptisism
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
8,849
Reaction score
8,928
Location
BC Canada
Ram Year
2017
Engine
hemi 5.7
All electriciy will be green in no time. You'll see!
 
Last edited:

BWL

Embrace the skeptisism
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
8,849
Reaction score
8,928
Location
BC Canada
Ram Year
2017
Engine
hemi 5.7
Not my post,i just copied it,but there's some good info it.


"Please read... you and your Teslas! View attachment 488403
Batteries, do not make electricity – they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.
Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?"
Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the storage device, like a gas tank in a car.
There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.
Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all batteries be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.
All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.
In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly.
But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive production costs.
A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just - one - battery."
Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?"
I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not. This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.
The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.
Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades.
There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions.
"Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure
Sure, but as long as the environmental damage and poor working conditions happens in other countries we keep our emissions to zero,save the planet and live guilt free. That's why we in North America make it nearly impossible to set up mines to extract the minerals and alloys needed. The used batteries, solar panels and windmill landfills can be hidden away under a protective layer of dirt preferably in the countries we got the materials from in the first place returning them back to nature. So your argument makes no sense. Now go watch a Tesla beat a hellcat in a drag race and forget about all that pesky reality.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
23,714
Reaction score
54,457
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
Sure, but as long as the environmental damage and poor working conditions happens in other countries we keep our emissions to zero,save the planet and live guilt free. That's why we in North America make it nearly impossible to set up mines to extract the minerals and alloys needed. The used batteries, solar panels and windmill landfills can be hidden away under a protective layer of dirt. Out of sight out of mind so your argument makes no sense. Now go watch a Tesla beat a hellcat in a drag race and forget about all that pesky reality.
You're talking to the wrong guy,i didn't write this,i only copied it for the info that's in the post
 

BWL

Embrace the skeptisism
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
8,849
Reaction score
8,928
Location
BC Canada
Ram Year
2017
Engine
hemi 5.7
You're talking to the wrong guy,i didn't write this,i only copied it for the info that's in the post
Lol. I'm just having some fun. I'd hoped by now you'd know that. I did at least graduate kindergarten before I dropped out of school and that was back when you got grades instead of smiley faces and had to do more than not bite the other children too often to pass.
 
Last edited:

BWL

Embrace the skeptisism
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
8,849
Reaction score
8,928
Location
BC Canada
Ram Year
2017
Engine
hemi 5.7
If you can't laugh at the futility of modern day hypocrisy then what can you laugh at. Okay, working night shift may be having an adverse albeit humorous effect on me.
 
Last edited:

Marine Les

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Posts
372
Reaction score
310
Location
Show Low az
Ram Year
2001/2018
Engine
5.9 cummins/3.6 Pentastar
The alternative to oil and gas debate has been around for at least five decades. At first it was that we were going to run out of oil by the year 2000 and that not only did not happen just the opposite did as immense oil and gas reserves were discovered. Now it is climate change doom and that is not happening. Yes, the planet is warming during this cycle, but these cycles have been repeating regularly as far back as science can see. I think the warming will have an overall positive effect for humanity by opening more land for cultivation of food crops. When and if the temperature in the oceans catch up with the atmosphere the rain will be increased. The alterative to warming is cooling and maybe some would like to see an ice age cycle happen. I'll take warming over an ice age. Burn the oil and gas for now and be objective about the most intelligent way to move on to other sources of energy. While America strangles its economy, China booms while burning more and more coal that is filthy compared to Americas natural gas.
 
OP
OP
W

Wild one

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
23,714
Reaction score
54,457
Ram Year
14 Sport
Engine
5.7
The alternative to oil and gas debate has been around for at least five decades. At first it was that we were going to run out of oil by the year 2000 and that not only did not happen just the opposite did as immense oil and gas reserves were discovered. Now it is climate change doom and that is not happening. Yes, the planet is warming during this cycle, but these cycles have been repeating regularly as far back as science can see. I think the warming will have an overall positive effect for humanity by opening more land for cultivation of food crops. When and if the temperature in the oceans catch up with the atmosphere the rain will be increased. The alterative to warming is cooling and maybe some would like to see an ice age cycle happen. I'll take warming over an ice age. Burn the oil and gas for now and be objective about the most intelligent way to move on to other sources of energy. While America strangles its economy, China booms while burning more and more coal that is filthy compared to Americas natural gas.
They knew about those "immense oil and gas reserves" way back in the 40's and 50's,they were just kept under wraps from the general public / tax payer / consumer,lol
 
Back
Top