Tires...E versus D versus C

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corneileous

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I have the BFG K02's, and that is exactly what the BFG tire rep told me to run for pressure.

I’m not gonna lie to you, when I inflated the tires I had from 39 up to 55 and even backed them down a little to 50, my truck handled a whole lot better on those but the ride quality seriously diminished. They were actually tolerable at 39 as far as ride smoothness but the handling sucked. Once I inflated mine to 55 was when I fully realized just how spongy they were at 39. The cornering was affected and even the braking was affected as well. At 55, and even at 50, my braking, my acceleration and my cornering was all back up to where it was before like it was on the stock goodyears but I went from definitely telling my ride quality was affected to really feeling like I had lost whatever ride quality I had because at that point I felt every single bump in the road that was bad enough that even over pretty good bumps out on the highway, the back end was really bouncy. Finally I reached a happy medium at running them about what the rebel tire pressure is except I ran the front tires at 50 at the back ones I ran at about 44. That seemed to be about the happiest balance between still somewhat smooth ride and not like they were under-inflated, but at the same time not making them as hard as a rock either.

I’m just glad to be rid of them. Lol.


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View attachment 211726


I have the BFG K02's, and that is exactly what the BFG tire rep told me to run for pressure.

I'll 3rd that. I've got KO2's load range E - was told to run at least 50psi by BFG. Handling & braking feel great, harsh ride though. I've been running them at 45psi lately.

I know there has been quite a few PSI debates on here. I did find this calculator - https://tiresize.com/pressure-calculator/ - which states I should be running my current tires at 35psi, far less than BFG said.

*EDIT - see corrected post #27.
 
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ram1500rsm

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I'll 3rd that. I've got KO2's load range E - was told to run at least 50psi by BFG. Handling & braking feel great, harsh ride though. I've been running them at 45psi lately.

I know there has been quite a few PSI debates on here. I did find this calculator - https://tiresize.com/pressure-calculator/ - which states I should be running my current tires at 35psi, far less than BFG said.

That's a little too low if your size is LT 285/65/20
Even with the 10% rule for P rated tires applied to your truck, that puts the needed tire support from 2601lbs to 2341lbs.
If you look in the TRA table, you'll find how much PSI you need to match or exceed that specification
https://www.toyotires.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf

For that size that seems to be 40PSI, or 46PSI if you didn't apply the reduction

upload_2020-6-16_8-35-48.png
 
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That's a little too low if your size is LT 285/65/20
Even with the 10% rule for P rated tires applied to your truck, that puts the needed tire support from 2601lbs to 2341lbs.
If you look in the TRA table, you'll find how much PSI you need to match or exceed that specification
https://www.toyotires.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf

For that size that seems to be 40PSI, or 46PSI if you didn't applied the reduction

That tiresize.com calculator write up/explanation made a lot of sense to me as I read it, but the PSI recommendation after inputting all the data seemed weird. I even tried a few other sizes and tire types just to test it and most them cam back at 35PSI.

I'll drop to 40PSI and see how that feels for awhile.

*EDIT - see corrected post #27.
 
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corneileous

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That tiresize.com calculator write up/explanation made a lot of sense to me as I read it, but the PSI recommendation after inputting all the data seemed weird. I even tried a few other sizes and tire types just to test it and most them cam back at 35PSI.

I'll drop to 40PSI and see how that feels for awhile.

That’s why I don’t understand that tire pressure thing that was posted, especially the part about the ten percent reduction in P-rated tires when mounted on a pickup because back the last time I had this discussion over tires and tire pressures, I called up Michelin- which the Defender is the current tire I run, Goodyear because of the factory stock P-rated SRA’s and I even called up Toyo tires, I believe it was and asked them all the same question about that and they all told me that they didn’t really
Know what I was talking about because they all told me that if a tire like the Goodyear SRA for example is stamped 2601 pounds, as long as that tire is inflated to the stamped max pressure of 44 psi then that tire will support the stamped 2,601 pounds irregardless of what vehicle it’s mounted to.

But as far as dropping your BFG’s to 40, I think 45 front and rear or even 50 front, 45 rear is a good happy median for just supporting the truck with you and minimal passengers with no trailer or no loaded bed but most definitely if you are gonna have a loaded cab and bed with a heavy trailer, might wanna inflate them back tires up to 65psi to be able to support the stamped 3000 pounds or whatever it is that the sidewall says.


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corneileous

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That's a little too low if your size is LT 285/65/20
Even with the 10% rule for P rated tires applied to your truck, that puts the needed tire support from 2601lbs to 2341lbs.
If you look in the TRA table, you'll find how much PSI you need to match or exceed that specification
https://www.toyotires.com/media/2125/application_of_load_inflation_tables_20170203.pdf

For that size that seems to be 40PSI, or 46PSI if you didn't applied the reduction

View attachment 211917

I’m not sure if you’re one of the ones I discussed this with quite a few months ago but when you say a P rated tire only holding 2,341 pounds because of this “10%” rule, are you talking about the max load of like the stock SRA’s when they’re inflated to the door jamb recommended tire pressure of 39 psi for the 20” equipped Ram 1500’s? Because that would actually make sense and co relate with what Toyo, GoodYear and Michelin told me about if the tire has a max weight of X at X amount of pressure then that’s what you need to go by if you want the max out of your tires.


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@ram1500rsm @corneileous

I made a mistake in prior posts, sorry. I just re-did that tire pressure calculator from tiresize.com. Here's what is says:

"OEM Size (P275/60R20 SL) Load Capacity: 2601 lbs. @ 39 psi.
Passenger type tires are fitted with a 10% overage in load capability when used on SUV's, Light Trucks, and Vans because of the difference in load handling. This load overage can be removed when changing to an LT type tire.

That brings the effective load capacity to acheive down to 2365 lbs.

New Size (LT285/65R20 E) Load Capacity: 2390 lbs. @ 40 psi."

So, that calculator is recommending 40PSI with my current tires. Still, 10PSI less than BFG recommends.
 

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@ram1500rsm @corneileous

I made a mistake in prior posts, sorry. I just re-did that tire pressure calculator from tireplus.com. Here's what is says:

"OEM Size (P275/60R20 SL) Load Capacity: 2601 lbs. @ 39 psi.
Passenger type tires are fitted with a 10% overage in load capability when used on SUV's, Light Trucks, and Vans because of the difference in load handling. This load overage can be removed when changing to an LT type tire.

That brings the effective load capacity to acheive down to 2365 lbs.

New Size (LT285/65R20 E) Load Capacity: 2390 lbs. @ 40 psi."

So, that calculator is recommending 40PSI with my current tires. Still, 10PSI less than BFG recommends.

See, that’s just it. That’s not right because the stock 20” goodyears that come factory on a Ram 1500 are not 2,601 pounds at 39 psi. In order to fully achieve the maximum weight-carrying capacity of 2,601 pounds, they have to be inflated to 44psi. That’s why if you look at the sidewalls, it reads 2,601 pounds... @ 44 psi which means that if you only have them inflated to 39 like the door says, they won’t safely support the max weight stamped on the sidewall if you load that bed down or both that and hook on to a heavy trailer.


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See, that’s just it. That’s not right because the stock 20” goodyears that come factory on a Ram 1500 are not 2,601 pounds at 39 psi. In order to fully achieve the maximum weight-carrying capacity of 2,601 pounds, they have to be inflated to 44psi. That’s why if you look at the sidewalls, it reads 2,601 pounds... @ 44 psi which means that if you only have them inflated to 39 like the door says, they won’t safely support the max weight stamped on the sidewall if you load that bed down or both that and hook on to a heavy trailer.


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Here is an excerpt from the tiresize.com page relating to that. I'm not arguing with you, just learning as well.

"Each tire is rated with a load range, load index number, and max pressure rating. Passenger tires will be rated Light Load (LL), Standard Load (SL), or Extra Load (XL). Extra Load tires of the same size will typically have the same load capacity at the same pressure as the Standard Load tire. However, they have added load capacity above certain pressures. Light and Standard Load tires have a maximum capacity pressure rating of 35-36 psi and Extra load tires have a maximum capacity pressure rating of 41-42 psi. The maximum allowed pressure listed on a tire's sidewall can be higher however. Some tires list 44 psi and many higher speed tires will list 50-51 psi. This added pressure does nothing for load capacity. Pressures above 35-36 psi for SL tires and 41-42 psi for XL tires will not increase the load capacity of the tire. Even if you put 50 psi in an SL tire the load capacity will remain what it is at 36 psi for the higher pressure levels."
 

corneileous

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Here is an excerpt from the tiresize.com page relating to that. I'm not arguing with you, just learning as well.

"Each tire is rated with a load range, load index number, and max pressure rating. Passenger tires will be rated Light Load (LL), Standard Load (SL), or Extra Load (XL). Extra Load tires of the same size will typically have the same load capacity at the same pressure as the Standard Load tire. However, they have added load capacity above certain pressures. Light and Standard Load tires have a maximum capacity pressure rating of 35-36 psi and Extra load tires have a maximum capacity pressure rating of 41-42 psi. The maximum allowed pressure listed on a tire's sidewall can be higher however. Some tires list 44 psi and many higher speed tires will list 50-51 psi. This added pressure does nothing for load capacity. Pressures above 35-36 psi for SL tires and 41-42 psi for XL tires will not increase the load capacity of the tire. Even if you put 50 psi in an SL tire the load capacity will remain what it is at 36 psi for the higher pressure levels."

I’m not necessarily arguing as well but that’s just basically the tire manufacturers arguing with what that says that you posted. Otherwise, why would Goodyear write X amount of pounds at X amount of pressure?? ...and Michelin? ...and Toyo, and pretty much any other tire manufacturer, just because the said tire is mounted on a pickup?

And just like with using a Tahoe for example- not a truck but there certainly is no difference with it being a full-size SUV loaded with passengers and gear, pulling a trailer? Does that same thing apply to that as well when it only mentions a truck? See what I mean?....lol.

The only thing I question is whether or not BFG is just being a little bit too over-cautious with their 55(50psi minimum) recommendation even on their 8-ply factory-size 275/60/20’s. The only thing that saying they need that much pressure would be of any importance if your truck was loaded down, and pulling a heavy trailer because in my humble little opinion, what I ran in those tires on my truck, 55 in the front and 45 in the back was plenty for just only carrying the truck with just myself or little to no load on it. In other words, I really didn’t see why they needed 55psi for a basically empty truck in order to make them not what they called dangerously under-inflated but then again, in order to support the 3000-pound load carrying ability, those tires have to be inflated to 65 psi. Just like how a 10-ply load-range E tire in that size has to be inflated to 80psi to support whatever that stamped load weight capacity is.


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I’m not sure if you’re one of the ones I discussed this with quite a few months ago but when you say a P rated tire only holding 2,341 pounds because of this “10%” rule, are you talking about the max load of like the stock SRA’s when they’re inflated to the door jamb recommended tire pressure of 39 psi for the 20” equipped Ram 1500’s? Because that would actually make sense and co relate with what Toyo, GoodYear and Michelin told me about if the tire has a max weight of X at X amount of pressure then that’s what you need to go by if you want the max out of your tires.


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That seesms to be a load reduction factor. According to that literature it indicates that there is an expectation of severe loading and usage of passenger tires when mounted on a truck/suv. So they're just reducing the max load of the tire by 10% and it'll be only important to account only if you're going with non stock specs.

"P-Metric or hard metric tires on Light Trucks When a P-metric or metric tire is installed on a light truck (SUV, pickup, minivan), the load capacity of the tire is reduced by a factor of 1.101 as prescribed by the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). For example, 305/50R20 has a maximum load capacity of 3086 lbs. If this tire is fitted to a light truck, then the actual allowable load capacity for the tire is 2805 lbs. (3086 lbs. divided by 1.1). If you replace the original tires with the exact same type (P-metric, hard metric, LT-metric, or flotation), size designations, and ply as the tires that were originally installed, just follow the vehicle’s tire information placard for proper inflation pressures. If, however, you apply a ‘Plus zero’ or plus-1, etc., fitment to a light truck, you must discount the replacement tire’s load by the 1.10 factor and ensure that the replacement tire has sufficient load capacity by inflation to support the load of the originally installed tires. 1 This load reduction factor is prescribed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and is based on the expectation that passenger type tires (P-metric) may experience more severe loading and usage conditions when applied to light trucks."
 

corneileous

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That seesms to be a load reduction factor. According to that literature it indicates that there is an expectation of severe loading and usage of passenger tires when mounted on a truck/suv. So they're just reducing the max load of the tire by 10% and it'll be only important to account only if you're going with non stock specs.

"P-Metric or hard metric tires on Light Trucks When a P-metric or metric tire is installed on a light truck (SUV, pickup, minivan), the load capacity of the tire is reduced by a factor of 1.101 as prescribed by the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). For example, 305/50R20 has a maximum load capacity of 3086 lbs. If this tire is fitted to a light truck, then the actual allowable load capacity for the tire is 2805 lbs. (3086 lbs. divided by 1.1). If you replace the original tires with the exact same type (P-metric, hard metric, LT-metric, or flotation), size designations, and ply as the tires that were originally installed, just follow the vehicle’s tire information placard for proper inflation pressures. If, however, you apply a ‘Plus zero’ or plus-1, etc., fitment to a light truck, you must discount the replacement tire’s load by the 1.10 factor and ensure that the replacement tire has sufficient load capacity by inflation to support the load of the originally installed tires. 1 This load reduction factor is prescribed by Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and is based on the expectation that passenger type tires (P-metric) may experience more severe loading and usage conditions when applied to light trucks."

It just seems to me that the only reason why it’s being reduced is because they’re not saying to run the max tire pressure stamped on the sidewall.... that’s just for everyday driving which is what the majority of which most people do. I mean, think about it; if they said to run the max pressure all the time, your ride quality is gonna go out the window. You might get a little better mileage having your tires that hard but at the same time you might create handling issues with your tires being that bouncy and might even cause a little bit of uneven tire wear to boot. I kinda hardly doubt the tire wear part because if it’s an OEM size on an OEM wheel, I don’t really think tire pressure is gonna change your contact patch a whole lot because back when I had my BFG’s, I still had every centimeter of the tread touching the road at even 65psi on an empty truck.

But take the rebel for example- if that thing comes with 10-ply tires, isn’t that placarded door sticker pressure a little light for that truck being fully loaded and/or hooked to a heavy trailer? Especially when I’m more than certain that for whatever the max weight capacity on those tires is, I’m pretty sure it says at 80 psi- and if it’s true that a heavier-plied tire needs more air to support the same weight as lesser-plied tire, how can that whole ten percent reduction thing even make sense? But whatever, just like I told the other guy- that’s not what I said, that’s just me repeating what three other major tire manufacturers said to me when I asked them about it.


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It just seems to me that the only reason why it’s being reduced is because they’re not saying to run the max tire pressure stamped on the sidewall.... that’s just for everyday driving which is what the majority of which most people do. I mean, think about it; if they said to run the max pressure all the time, your ride quality is gonna go out the window. You might get a little better mileage having your tires that hard but at the same time you might create handling issues with your tires being that bouncy and might even cause a little bit of uneven tire wear to boot. I kinda hardly doubt the tire wear part because if it’s an OEM size on an OEM wheel, I don’t really think tire pressure is gonna change your contact patch a whole lot because back when I had my BFG’s, I still had every centimeter of the tread touching the road at even 65psi on an empty truck.

But take the rebel for example- if that thing comes with 10-ply tires, isn’t that placarded door sticker pressure a little light for that truck being fully loaded and/or hooked to a heavy trailer? Especially when I’m more than certain that for whatever the max weight capacity on those tires is, I’m pretty sure it says at 80 psi- and if it’s true that a heavier-plied tire needs more air to support the same weight as lesser-plied tire, how can that whole ten percent reduction thing even make sense? But whatever, just like I told the other guy- that’s not what I said, that’s just me repeating what three other major tire manufacturers said to me when I asked them about it.


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I think the max stated psi in the tire from the manfucaturers is just that, don't over inflate higher than that value for ??? reasons. Just like when we blow too much air in those party ballons i'd think. so theyre giving us max psi and max load, don't exceed.

With regards of max pressure at xx psi, i think the TRA specs were developed to provide manufacturers and us with a reference for load index parameters and how the tire should be rated across that range. in the case of an LT 285/70/17 size that seems to be 3195lbs at 80 if it was E, or 3195 at 65PSI if it was D, 2755lbs at 50 PSI if it was C. but in either case you don't need to go that high to have a truck fully loaded or adjust your PSI above the manufacturer guidelines per the placard

If we follow the TRA reference to go from P 275/60/20 to LT Rebel size 285/70/17 then we just need to exceed 2364 lbs (if we divide 2601 by 1.10 to account for P mounted on a truck)
in the case of LT 285/70/17 that should be 42 PSI at 2393lbs regardless if the tire was C or D or E.
If you didn't account for the 1.10 factor, then you'll be exceding the factory 2601lbs at just 47 psi (2608lbs per the TRA table) with that size tire.

And those values are actually higher than your truck GAWR per axel, which is also provided by the vehicle manufacturer. For a RAM 1500 4th gen Crew cab, that is 3900lbs per axel, so using those values we only need tires able to support 1950lbs per corner, which an LT 285/70/17 is exceeding at just 35psi.


upload_2020-6-17_9-0-23.png

Granted, this is taking the reference from the TRA table listed above from 2017
Current version is listed here
$125 for the yearbook or $250 for the digital reference.
http://www.us-tra.org/publications.html
And i don't know if values have changed from 2017. too much money to find out.

Tire manufacturers should also have a reference to their tires just like the TRA yearbook, TRA is not an enforcement but more of a guideline if anything i'd think tire manufacturers will try to meet or exceed those requirements. For us the guideline is just the reference to make the calculations when we change tire size otherwise we follow the placard if using the same tire as the truck came equipped originally.

Hope it helps.
 
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Interesting discussion.

My Rebel, running OEM E-rated Toyo Open Country IIs at 55/45 feels fine. But.....before the Rebel, I was driving a 08 Trail Team Supercharged FJ Cruiser running E rated tires (BFG K02s, but OEM was original BFGs in E rating) with Bilsteins OEM and airbags in the rear, so I was used to a stiff ride. My Rebel feels great in comparison. I have no idea what a cushy truck ride feels like ;) But I do appreciate E rated tires when I am towing my camper trailer....very secure and comfortable. And yeah, I miss the FJ, but a fullsize truck better fits our daily usage.
 

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I’m not necessarily arguing as well but that’s just basically the tire manufacturers arguing with what that says that you posted. Otherwise, why would Goodyear write X amount of pounds at X amount of pressure?? ...and Michelin? ...and Toyo, and pretty much any other tire manufacturer, just because the said tire is mounted on a pickup?

And just like with using a Tahoe for example- not a truck but there certainly is no difference with it being a full-size SUV loaded with passengers and gear, pulling a trailer? Does that same thing apply to that as well when it only mentions a truck? See what I mean?....lol.

The only thing I question is whether or not BFG is just being a little bit too over-cautious with their 55(50psi minimum) recommendation even on their 8-ply factory-size 275/60/20’s. The only thing that saying they need that much pressure would be of any importance if your truck was loaded down, and pulling a heavy trailer because in my humble little opinion, what I ran in those tires on my truck, 55 in the front and 45 in the back was plenty for just only carrying the truck with just myself or little to no load on it. In other words, I really didn’t see why they needed 55psi for a basically empty truck in order to make them not what they called dangerously under-inflated but then again, in order to support the 3000-pound load carrying ability, those tires have to be inflated to 65 psi. Just like how a 10-ply load-range E tire in that size has to be inflated to 80psi to support whatever that stamped load weight capacity is.


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Hmm, that's quite a bit there to go through. I'm not sure that I'm following you on all of it. Tire manufacturers, like everyone else, are likely being over-cautious as you state. Liabilities/lawyers stuff. BFG, possibly, is making some assumptions that whoever is buying their higher ply tires are using them while under load frequently - so they give a PSI recommendation to account for that? Just a thought.

I, for sure, don't have all the answers. But I will, for sure, burn my tires some tomorrow just for the sake of all this tire talk : )
 
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