Too late for a catch can?

[serialize]

Stupid question, is this only for the Hemi or also for the V6?

 

[Sir John]

You have a fuel injected engine. Fuel is injected directly into the cylinder. There is no fuel cleaner passing through your intake, only air and the yiltch sucked up form your PCV.

Unless you seafoam the intake manifold yourself, you are just ******* in the wind.

Oh my....this is where I get nervous on these forums. The hemis are currently muti-port injected, as cars have been for many yrs. What you're talking about is direct injection which the 5.7 hemi IS NOT.

The intake valves get a nice little bath of fuel to rinse them off. Now, if the hemi was direct injected, then yes, a catch can would be much more beneficial. But, like I said earlier, if you want to spend the money, then go ahead....won't hurt anything.

 

[jcat]

You are saying that now, and I agree, but there was a whole lot of can doubt before you boiled it down that statement^^

I did the compressor air filter mod at first but didn't like the Rube Goldberg look to it. It worked, but the plastic bottle was always too close to the engine block.

I figured the last thing I needed was slagged plastic running down my exhaust manifold with a vacuum leak.

Correct, I should have clarified because I'm really making two points:

1.) Not having some sort of oil separation system in place on your vehicles PCV system is far from the end of the world, so much so that an oil separation system on the vast majority of cars is completely unnecessary and has no effect on the longevity of the engine.

2.) IF you feel that you need an oil separation system in your vehicle, there's zero need aside form aesthetics to spend $130 on a catch can when you can make a perfectly functional one (albeit less pretty and blingy) with an inline compressor air separator that you can get for less than 1/10th the cost at your local hardware store.

Oh my....this is where I get nervous on these forums. The hemis are currently muti-port injected, as cars have been for many yrs. What you're talking about is direct injection which the 5.7 hemi IS NOT.

The intake valves get a nice little bath of fuel to rinse them off. Now, if the hemi was direct injected, then yes, a catch can would be much more beneficial. But, like I said earlier, if you want to spend the money, then go ahead....won't hurt anything.

Ding ding ding! And that's why fuel system treatments ARE effective in these and most other vehicles when concerned with build up on the valves. Using a high quality gasoline with detergents already in it (a la shell, mobil) and then using a Techron or Lucas fuel additive now and again, and you're all set.

Stupid question, is this only for the Hemi or also for the V6?

In theory, a catch can could be installed on any vehicle with a PCV system. Thus, anything that applies to the hemi would apply to the 6cyl.

 

[Casper]

Oh my....this is where I get nervous on these forums. The hemis are currently muti-port injected, as cars have been for many yrs. What you're talking about is direct injection which the 5.7 hemi IS NOT.

The intake valves get a nice little bath of fuel to rinse them off. Now, if the hemi was direct injected, then yes, a catch can would be much more beneficial. But, like I said earlier, if you want to spend the money, then go ahead....won't hurt anything.

Fair enough, I mis-stated about the valves not being sprayed with fuel/air mixture.


" Originally posted by jcat Ding ding ding! And that's why fuel system treatments ARE effective in these and most other vehicles when concerned with build up on the valves. Using a high quality gasoline with detergents already in it (a la shell, mobil) and then using a Techron or Lucas fuel additive now and again, and you're all set."

Actually the majority of the oily residue in the manifold will not be cleaned by a gas treatment, only the short distance immediately after the injector--which Sir John pointed out inlcudes the intake valve.
All that oily mess will adhere to the intake manifold and congeal--or collect and slowly migrate toward the intake valves when warm enough, before once again congealing in the low points. Oil and plastic are extrememly close chemically so there is a natural adhesion--No fuel treatment is going to remove that. Maybe a nice soak in a parts washer, but not a little bottle of Gumout, Techron or Lucas.
I prefer to keep it from happening.

 

[ExpressRules]

Fair enough, I mis-stated about the valves not being sprayed with fuel/air mixture.


" Originally posted by jcat Ding ding ding! And that's why fuel system treatments ARE effective in these and most other vehicles when concerned with build up on the valves. Using a high quality gasoline with detergents already in it (a la shell, mobil) and then using a Techron or Lucas fuel additive now and again, and you're all set."

Actually the majority of the oily residue in the manifold will not be cleaned by a gas treatment, only the short distance immediately after the injector--which Sir John pointed out inlcudes the intake valve.
All that oily mess will adhere to the intake manifold and congeal--or collect and slowly migrate toward the intake valves when warm enough, before once again congealing in the low points. Oil and plastic are extrememly close chemically so there is a natural adhesion--No fuel treatment is going to remove that. Maybe a nice soak in a parts washer, but not a little bottle of Gumout, Techron or Lucas.
I prefer to keep it from happening.

Do you have documentation that supports your theory?? As Sir John has stated, "....this is where I get nervous on these forums." There is a fine line between well meaning conjecture and true fact. It is important for members of the forum to understand anything they read here should be considered unqualified opinion unless verifiable documentation is attached.

 

[Casper]

Do you have documentation that supports your theory?? As Sir John has stated, "....this is where I get nervous on these forums." There is a fine line between well meaning conjecture and true fact. It is important for members of the forum to understand anything they read here should be considered unqualified opinion unless verifiable documentation is attached.

Look at a cut away of the Hemi and focus on the intake and the fuel injection system. the Injectors and intake valves are right before the cylinder. The TB is at the end of the engine and the intake manifold extends from TB to every cylinder the length of the engine--easily over three linear feet of intake to line with congealed funky PCV milkshake.

These are both Gen 3 but you get the idea:

http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/57hemi/images/hemi_cutaway.jpg

Notice how much blue intake before you reach the intake valve.

http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/57hemi/images/57hemi_seethrough.jpg

 

[ExpressRules]

Casper, those links are wonderful, but that wasn't the what I had asked. You have , in numerous posts, spoken about having a hemi without a catch can will be detrimental to the engine by clogging the intake, robbing power and possible long term destruction (and maybe the end of the world as we know it ).

I get the point that you are very passionate about using a catch can and how you like how it looks on your truck. I have no problem with that and already have said that anyone that feels better by having one should do so. It is the lack of facts to verify and document such statements that bother me. I'm sure you have heard the line, if it is on the internet it must be true.

I will be the first one to say WOW Casper, you are right, I was totally off base, if documented information was presented that proved you point that over the life time of the engine a catch can will significantly provide more power and lifespan for the engine that would not already happen with normal routine maintenance.

At this point I will just say again, if it gives you satisfaction having one, great for you. After reading all the threads about catch cans I was just truly interested on the facts that back the statements.

 

[Sybil]

Looks like I stirred the pot again LOL

Well the proof is in the pudding I guess... so.......

1996 Dodge Ram 1500, 160,000 miles

1998 Dodge Neon, 190,000 miles

2004 Jeep Liberty, 160,000 miles

2007 Dodge Nitro, 155,000 miles

2011 Honda Civic 123,000 mile and counting.

No catch can on any. Never heard of one until recently. All these cars were running fine when traded or sold. Had the throttle body cleaned once on the neon. Cars were well maintained and never broke down or ran crappy. Always ran the injector cleaner every 6000 miles.

I hear the new Corvette has direct injection LOL

 

[Sir John]

Looks like I stirred the pot again LOL

Well the proof is in the pudding I guess... so.......

1996 Dodge Ram 1500, 160,000 miles

1998 Dodge Neon, 190,000 miles

2004 Jeep Liberty, 160,000 miles

2007 Dodge Nitro, 155,000 miles

2011 Honda Civic 123,000 mile and counting.

No catch can on any. Never heard of one until recently. All these cars were running fine when traded or sold. Had the throttle body cleaned once on the neon. Cars were well maintained and never broke down or ran crappy. Always ran the injector cleaner every 6000 miles.

I hear the new Corvette has direct injection LOL

Yeah, direct injection is great with the exception of the valve coking. All of the major manufactures are struggling with valve coking on their direct injection engines. Eventually they will figure it out in how to prevent it. Audi, VW and BMW had major issues within just the last 5-8 yrs. Toyota has a kind of hybrid system with their DI engines. The have injectors in the TB to spray just a little fuel on the intake valves to try and keep them clean while the majority of the fuel goes through the DI system....interesting approach, huh? For those interested, this guy (see link below) did a simply good explanation of it. If Ram ever decides to go DI on the hemi, then definitely get a catch can....imo.

 

[Sybil]

Valve coking? Interesting...Thanks for the link! I learned another new thing today. Catch can for sure on DI. Whole different animal.


By the way a catch can would have been nice on carburated engines would it not?

 

[JohnD72]

This concludes our bi-monthly catch can debate...

Stay tuned next week for this month's "how to make the Sport hood functional" and "where to find cheap headlight upgrades" threads.
Should be good fun!

 

[jcat]

This concludes our bi-monthly catch can debate...

Stay tuned next week for this month's "how to make the Sport hood functional" and "where to find cheap headlight upgrades" threads.
Should be good fun!

Can't forget the extra-special "what gas should I put in my truck" threads

 

[DavidRam]

I just lost 20 minutes of my life reading this thread! It is so funny how a little shiney metal can, starts amazing debates! I love it!

I have a catch can, and I like my catch can. If it is a total waste of money, that's ok, I have wasted $150 on things that were much less noble.

If I realize someday that it is useless in the engine bay, than I will mount it upside down to my dash and have the coolest pen and coin holder ANYWHERE!

Panhandler asks "Sir, can you spare some change?" I answer "Yes I can, let me just twist off this nifty cap right here..."

 

[Sybil]

I just lost 20 minutes of my life reading this thread! It is so funny how a little shiney metal can, starts amazing debates! I love it!

I have a catch can, and I like my catch can. If it is a total waste of money, that's ok, I have wasted $150 on things that were much less noble.

If I realize someday that it is useless in the engine bay, than I will mount it upside down to my dash and have the coolest pen and coin holder ANYWHERE!

Panhandler asks "Sir, can you spare some change?" I answer "Yes I can, let me just twist off this nifty cap right here..."

I think that about sums it up lol

For those of you who don't have one, get one to support the aftermarket economy

 

[DavidRam]

I think that about sums it up lol

For those of you who don't have one, get one to support the aftermarket economy

^^^ Exactly. Plus, the Billet one sure is pretty and well made, and looks good perched on the engine like that.

 

[UNBROKEN]

I'll stop running a catch can on my truck when we stop running one on this. lol

 

[DavidRam]

I'll stop running a catch can on my truck when we stop running one on this. lol

AMEN! Lol

Btw, cool pic!

 

[Sybil]

I'll stop running a catch can on my truck when we stop running one on this. lol

You need to pay attention! Go back and read what I said. Men...

 

[RedNBlack]

So then... what is the best octane gas to run with my catch can... and does that change if I take the catch can off? What about MPG, does a catch can increase my MPG? I did just put a sticker on my truck window... will that help?

 

[UNBROKEN]

You need to pay attention! Go back and read what I said. Men...

I'll be sure to insert [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags just for you from now on. lol