Towing capacity

[Coupe427]

What changed causing Ram to lower the towing capacity in 2023 for the 1500?

 

[DanAR]

What was the max before 23? I think my 23 is rated at 12,750 (?) with 3.92 rear.

 

[SniperDroid]

Towing capacity varies with equipment selected. Be sure your comparing apples to apples.

 

[2003F350]

Towing capacity varies with equipment selected. Be sure your comparing apples to apples.

This right here. It depends on what your equipment is.

Also be warned, you're likely to run out of gross axle weight rating before you hit your max towing capacity with MOST trailers. About the only thing you can safely hit the max towing capacity with would be an equipment trailer, with the piece of machinery on it placed so it's putting the vast majority of the weight over the trailer axles.

 

[JF19Longhorn]

Maybe they realized their trucks can't reach those mythical numbers with the trucks they actually build?

 

[2003F350]

Maybe they realized their trucks can't reach those mythical numbers with the trucks they actually build?

No. It's been like that with all half ton trucks, regardless of manufacturer, for a long time now. Tow rating is based off moving a certain amount of weight through a certain distance I believe from a dead stop, in a certain amount of time. I don't recall what the parameters are. As they've increased horsepower and torque, they have been able to increase towing capacity, but they've basically reached a point where the towing capacity exceeds the payload capacity of the vehicle, which is based off spring rates, frame and axle strength, tire capacity, etc. etc. To achieve a properly balanced load you should have 10-15% tongue weight for a bumper pull, but 15% of 12k is 1800 lbs, which is over the payload of many half ton trucks.

Will the truck blow up if overloaded? Most won't. Is it safe? Not really. For some drivers, absolutely not.

 

[Tulecreeper]

No. It's been like that with all half ton trucks, regardless of manufacturer, for a long time now. Tow rating is based off moving a certain amount of weight through a certain distance I believe from a dead stop, in a certain amount of time. I don't recall what the parameters are. As they've increased horsepower and torque, they have been able to increase towing capacity, but they've basically reached a point where the towing capacity exceeds the payload capacity of the vehicle, which is based off spring rates, frame and axle strength, tire capacity, etc. etc. To achieve a properly balanced load you should have 10-15% tongue weight for a bumper pull, but 15% of 12k is 1800 lbs, which is over the payload of many half ton trucks.

Will the truck blow up if overloaded? Most won't. Is it safe? Not really. For some drivers, absolutely not.

Unless you're driving a VW bug, your towing capacity will always exceed your payload capacity. There has never been a truck with a towing cap less than its payload cap. It wouldn't make any sense to have a truck that can haul 3000# in the bed, but only tow 2000# behind it.

 

[Randy Grant]

No. It's been like that with all half ton trucks, regardless of manufacturer, for a long time now. Tow rating is based off moving a certain amount of weight through a certain distance I believe from a dead stop, in a certain amount of time. I don't recall what the parameters are. As they've increased horsepower and torque, they have been able to increase towing capacity, but they've basically reached a point where the towing capacity exceeds the payload capacity of the vehicle, which is based off spring rates, frame and axle strength, tire capacity, etc. etc. To achieve a properly balanced load you should have 10-15% tongue weight for a bumper pull, but 15% of 12k is 1800 lbs, which is over the payload of many half ton trucks.

Will the truck blow up if overloaded? Most won't. Is it safe? Not really. For some drivers, absolutely not.

How Your Truck Got Its Maximum Tow Rating

Today's heavy-duty pickups are rated to tow a crazy amount of weight. Here's how engineers make sure they can do it safely, without anything breaking.

www.roadandtrack.com

 

[SniperDroid]

Unless you're driving a VW bug, your towing capacity will always exceed your payload capacity. There has never been a truck with a towing cap less than its payload cap. It wouldn't make any sense to have a truck that can haul 3000# in the bed, but only tow 2000# behind it.

I think his point was it's very easy to exceed the cargo capacity while towing with a 1500. Putting you overloaded from the start.

 

[Tulecreeper]

I think his point was it's very easy to exceed the cargo capacity while towing with a 1500. Putting you overloaded from the start.

Cargo/payload cap is something you almost always run out of long before you run out of towing cap.

 

[SniperDroid]

Cargo/payload cap is something you almost always run out of long before you run out of towing cap.

That's why I gave up on the old F150 and surrendered to the "Dark Side".

 

[crash68]

What changed causing Ram to lower the towing capacity in 2023 for the 1500?

I think it maybe a testing change as the HD trucks took a hit, same grumblings with Ford trucks also

 

[2003F350]

I think it maybe a testing change as the HD trucks took a hit, same grumblings with Ford trucks also

Quite possibly, yes. They make updates to the parameters pretty frequently, in an attempt to take into account trends in the market. They're usually several years behind, though.

And for those who were saying something, yes, my point was with a half ton it is EXTREMELY easy to be over payload (or close to it) just by hooking up to a trailer. I believe there's someone running around on here with a 1500 that has a sub-1k payload, but he's got a loaded out truck.

That said, after a little research because I was a kid when he had it, my dad's '79 F150 had a payload of something around 2k, while his towing, depending on options (again, unsure) was rated at most 6k. 15% of 6k is only 900 lbs tongue weight, so WELL within his payload rating. Heck my parents' 1990 GMC Suburban was rated to have a payload of over 3700 lbs but only rated to tow something like 8k of a trailer, which would by the 'guidelines' be a 1200 lb tongue weight.

So yes, there WERE trucks that could pull their max rated towing and still have payload left, many years ago when trucks didn't have much for horsepower or torque. My statement stands, that as manufacturers have been increasing power, they have drastically upped the towing capacity but haven't done much for payload, and that you can easily get over your payload, and likely your RAWR, in today's half tons without getting anywhere close to your advertised max towing capacity.

 

[ramffml]

Quite possibly, yes. They make updates to the parameters pretty frequently, in an attempt to take into account trends in the market. They're usually several years behind, though.

And for those who were saying something, yes, my point was with a half ton it is EXTREMELY easy to be over payload (or close to it) just by hooking up to a trailer. I believe there's someone running around on here with a 1500 that has a sub-1k payload, but he's got a loaded out truck.

That said, after a little research because I was a kid when he had it, my dad's '79 F150 had a payload of something around 2k, while his towing, depending on options (again, unsure) was rated at most 6k. 15% of 6k is only 900 lbs tongue weight, so WELL within his payload rating. Heck my parents' 1990 GMC Suburban was rated to have a payload of over 3700 lbs but only rated to tow something like 8k of a trailer, which would by the 'guidelines' be a 1200 lb tongue weight.

So yes, there WERE trucks that could pull their max rated towing and still have payload left, many years ago when trucks didn't have much for horsepower or torque. My statement stands, that as manufacturers have been increasing power, they have drastically upped the towing capacity but haven't done much for payload, and that you can easily get over your payload, and likely your RAWR, in today's half tons without getting anywhere close to your advertised max towing capacity.

This is why I preach the 3.21 over the 3.92 so much. It's the better balance in our trucks.

My truck is rated to tow around 8200-ish pounds. My payload is 1750. 13% of my max trailer weight = 1066. Take off 400 pounds for me and a passenger and I still have 260 pounds left for cargo. That's a pretty good balance, but even that shows how 8000 pounds is almost too heavy if you have kids coming with + cargo.

Due to the amazing ZF 8 speed and that super deep first gear, my 0-60 is only a 10th or two behind the 3.92 (if that) and my mpg is probably 2 to 3 higher on the freeway.

Sometimes "bigger is not better". What works best, is a balanced spec IMHO.

 

[JF19Longhorn]

No. It's been like that with all half ton trucks, regardless of manufacturer, for a long time now. Tow rating is based off moving a certain amount of weight through a certain distance I believe from a dead stop, in a certain amount of time. I don't recall what the parameters are. As they've increased horsepower and torque, they have been able to increase towing capacity, but they've basically reached a point where the towing capacity exceeds the payload capacity of the vehicle, which is based off spring rates, frame and axle strength, tire capacity, etc. etc. To achieve a properly balanced load you should have 10-15% tongue weight for a bumper pull, but 15% of 12k is 1800 lbs, which is over the payload of many half ton trucks.

Will the truck blow up if overloaded? Most won't. Is it safe? Not really. For some drivers, absolutely not.

It was sarcastic.. hence the eye roll emoji at the end.

I'm well aware of the limitations of the half-ton trucks across all brands and how they come up with their 'ratings'.

 

[The Tow Rat]

Tow rating is based off moving a certain amount of weight through a certain distance I believe from a dead stop, in a certain amount of time. I don't recall what the parameters are.

Hey 2003F350, that is something I've been wondering about for a while...

To read about this on the forums, most people are pretty cynical about this. Many people believe that the big three all come up with tow ratings that are primarily driven by the marketing department, not the engineering department!

Where is this weight through a distance metric coming from? Is there a SAE standard, or such? If there is, then we should all start lobbying for the manufacturers to publish their test data on this.

Regards,
The Tow Rat

 

[DanAR]

What was the max before 23? I think my 23 is rated at 12,750 (?) with 3.92 rear.

Well, with no response to my question I googled 2022, 2021 and 2022 RAM 1500 with e-torque max “ rated“ towing capacities and it was the same 12,750 lbs as shown for 2023. So unless there is some particular combination rated for a lower capacity that changed, it apparently hasn’t changed.

edit: Could be he’s asking about the Hemi/3.92 w/o e-torque which is rated slightly less.

 

[crash68]

Where is this weight through a distance metric coming from? Is there a SAE standard, or such? If there is, then we should all start lobbying for the manufacturers to publish their test data on this.

There's more to the testing than just acceleration of a load, the testing standard is the SAE J2807.
Most manufacturers have adopted this standard, Ram trucks were as of the '15 model year

 

[2003F350]

There's more to the testing than just acceleration of a load, the testing standard is the SAE J2807.
Most manufacturers have adopted this standard, Ram trucks were as of the '15 model year

Crash is right, there's more to it than what I said, but if I recall it's one of the few things that have truly changed drastically over the years. Yes, brakes have gotten bigger, rims have changed, tires have changed, ABS is better, but the biggest change has been going from a barely 200 hp V8 to V8s capable of almost 400 hp, and V6s capable of almost as much in some cases.

As I said, I don't know all the ins and outs of the testing anymore, it's been a long time since that's been my field of focus, but the advancement of everything except the vehicle's GVW has lead us to the situation we're in.

 

[ramffml]

Hey 2003F350, that is something I've been wondering about for a while...

To read about this on the forums, most people are pretty cynical about this. Many people believe that the big three all come up with tow ratings that are primarily driven by the marketing department, not the engineering department!

Where is this weight through a distance metric coming from? Is there a SAE standard, or such? If there is, then we should all start lobbying for the manufacturers to publish their test data on this.

Regards,
The Tow Rat

The only difference between a truck with the 3.21 and a 3.92, is that itself; and so that means the only reason the 3.92 is rated higher has to be what that difference does for the truck, which is acceleration and/or durability. Brakes, suspension, front axle etc., they're all identical between the 2 trucks so therefore the difference in ratings cannot possibly be affected by any of that.

The J2807 standard does have 0-30 acceleration tests from a dead stop, forget the details but it's like being parked on a slope at the hoover damn and then mashing the pedal to see how long it takes to get to 15 or 30 or whatever it is they're measuring.

It looks like the max tow package has a different axle than the regular 3.92. That is certainly new information to me, and we might have to make an exception for that specific variant of the 3.92, meaning, it might be more durable as well.

But the better way to look at all this, and this is where the "cynical" part comes into play; your truck has multiple limits. You're allowed to tow Y pounds, but NOT if that would exceed the weight stored on your hitch or on your frame. So in theory the 3.92 might tow more, in practice the payload limit comes into play very very fast, which means the 3.21 and 3.92 end up being limited at the same weights, somewhere around 7000 to 8000 pounds.

By the time you put a family and cargo in your truck you simply have no more weight left to carry the tongue of your trailer. That's why it's marketing, they never tell you that you'll never realistically be able to tow > 8000 pounds. Everybody just likes to look at that large towing number and ignore the hauling number.